Tin Mage TF is just ridiculous..
By
BanzaiBadger,
Posted on: 2010-12-19 17:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Did I see that right? None of you had your Alpha Slotted!? Now THAT is impressive!
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Originally Posted by NordBlast
It is extremely hard
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to 
TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
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LOL.|
Originally Posted by cursedsorcerer
Did I see that right? None of you had your Alpha Slotted!? Now THAT is impressive!
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I just disabled passive buffs in team window. Everyone is with Alpha slotted.
I doubt you can defeat +8 AVs even with temp powers.
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Gonna join the Repeatedly Chorus.|
Originally Posted by Wolf_Reign
The final mission especially. Has anyone completed this?
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And the Tin Mage is Fun Ensemble.
The last mission isn't even the hardest in the TF, in my opinion, (Director 11 anyone?).
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You probably could do it quite easily with the right team. Dropping 8 HVAS and Shivans with /FF /therm and /pain buffs on a mixed group of MMs, controllers and defenders would probably drop the +8s in short order. |
Originally Posted by NordBlast
LOL.
I just disabled passive buffs in team window. Everyone is with Alpha slotted. I doubt you can defeat +8 AVs even with temp powers. |
Just remember that all MM pets get the ability to feed insps to any pet of theirs, including HVAS and shivans. I don't think the pets are debuffed so they'd be level 50 (not 100% on that though).
Can you unslot your incarnate slots (blank it) to deliberately do the TFs debuffed like that?
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Yes you can.
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
You probably could do it quite easily with the right team. Dropping 8 HVAS and Shivans with /FF /therm and /pain buffs on a mixed group of MMs, controllers and defenders would probably drop the +8s in short order.
Just remember that all MM pets get the ability to feed insps to any pet of theirs, including HVAS and shivans. I don't think the pets are debuffed so they'd be level 50 (not 100% on that though). Can you unslot your incarnate slots (blank it) to deliberately do the TFs debuffed like that? |
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That's just cruel. I still have nightmares about floating nano-swords swarming!
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Originally Posted by Valerika
I'm sorry you think that the Tin Mage TF is too hard. Try the Apex TF, it's much, much easier.
*tries not to laugh* |
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What's the deal with the way they heal themselves? Like is it something they all can do, or is it only the Greater Swords that heal the Lesser Swords?|
Originally Posted by Castle
That's just cruel. I still have nightmares about floating nano-swords swarming!
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That mission doesn't really give much time to stand around and observe how they work
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No the first time I ran it we only had one range person two melee and the rest support.
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Originally Posted by Valerika
That's definitely a matter of perspective. I'm guessing you were on a largely ranged team? The few times I've run Apex, I've played a melee character on melee-heavy teams. That doesn't pose a problem on Tin Mage, but it it's pretty hard to stay in melee long enough to do significant damage on Battle Maiden. In order to be effective, you have to stick and move like a small, fast boxer against a bigger, slower opponent. It's not impossible, but it's definitely harder.
Quite frankly, I enjoy enemies that require me to think like that, especially since it's still possible to beat them without any specific AT on my team if you use good strategy. |
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Every single time i did Tin Mage we finished with success.
Last time was 100% pickup group, and it worked.
its waaaaay easier than Apex.
Well, at least to me...
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Theory is that they heal off whatever they hit in melee and the higher the rank they are, the more heal they get.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
What's the deal with the way they heal themselves? Like is it something they all can do, or is it only the Greater Swords that heal the Lesser Swords?
That mission doesn't really give much time to stand around and observe how they work |
In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.
Just done the tin mage for the first time on my first time 
Thanks to lady/soul and all the others! Made it much easier than i thought it was
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I think these TFs are great. Are they incredibly hard? At times- but only for the same reasons every other high level TF has been hard when they first came out since the LRSF: We don't know our strategy yet.
I think both Tin Mage and Apex do a nice job of forcing players to be involved in the fight. You can't get away with standing in one place and firing off the same 3-attack chain til the AV is dead. Having to actually figure out Battle Maiden and then work as a team made me feel involved in what was going on. I had to be aware of my surroundings (very aware) rather than just letting the Tank take aggro and stand there and blast away.
In a month or so, these TFs will be just as efficiently and ruthlessly conquered as all the others. For now, enjoy the challenge.
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I'd say they've already been crushed based on NordBlast's screen shot.
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Originally Posted by Burning_Brawler_NA
I think these TFs are great. Are they incredibly hard? At times- but only for the same reasons every other high level TF has been hard when they first came out since the LRSF: We don't know our strategy yet.
I think both Tin Mage and Apex do a nice job of forcing players to be involved in the fight. You can't get away with standing in one place and firing off the same 3-attack chain til the AV is dead. Having to actually figure out Battle Maiden and then work as a team made me feel involved in what was going on. I had to be aware of my surroundings (very aware) rather than just letting the Tank take aggro and stand there and blast away. In a month or so, these TFs will be just as efficiently and ruthlessly conquered as all the others. For now, enjoy the challenge. |
Speaking of ridiculous, found an awesome screenie on an Apex run of several War Walkers trying to defeat Succubus Kali. Even with an over-the-shoulder view from behind a War Walker!
Man, these two TFs are such a thrill!
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The problem isn't that it's ridiculously difficult... it's much too easy.
Where are the TFs for those of us that can blitz through most TFs and SFs?
These enemy NPCs really need to start factoring in Purple sets if this is end game content.
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Wonderful screenshot is wonderful. Can I steal this and photoshop in targeting reticles? The feel of this capture reminds me of running AS the War Walker.
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Speaking of ridiculous, found an awesome screenie on an Apex run of several War Walkers trying to defeat Succubus Kali. Even with an over-the-shoulder view from behind a War Walker!
Man, these two TFs are such a thrill! |
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20 min Tin Mage, no HVAS or Shivans, plus Dodger badge. Looks like sub 20 minute Tin Mage TF is easily doable.|
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
I'd say they've already been crushed based on NordBlast's screen shot.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=273
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The Devs have stated that IO's are and always will be optional. Unless they amend that statement with regards to the Incarnate system, I doubt very seriously you'll ever see NPC's that assume heavy IO slotting.
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
These enemy NPCs really need to start factoring in Purple sets if this is end game content.
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I think it would be fair to assume that endgame content is going to be treated differently from the 1-50.
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Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
The Devs have stated that IO's are and always will be optional. Unless they amend that statement with regards to the Incarnate system, I doubt very seriously you'll ever see NPC's that assume heavy IO slotting.
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What we are likely to see, is foes that assume high-order buffs. IOs are not required for this, but they do contribute, and they reduce the number of buffing teammates or the magnitude of the buffs they provide to reach any given buff level. So while they may not assume a player is slotted with X purple sets and toting Y Touch of Death sets, they may assume the player has access to N +recharge and M +defense, whether they got it from IOs, a Kin Controller and Cold Defender, or a mix of all three.
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Umm, I don't have the Master of Tin Mage Badge yet, I'm missing the dodger badge. But i've done the TF 4-5 times, haven't failed it yet. A couple took a while but we didn't fail.
Haven't failed Apex yet either, and that one seems to be getting easier as time goes and people learn it.
Tin Mage is bad, but no worse than STF or LRSF imo.
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What I don't think it's fair to assume is that "end game" is the same as "forced teaming." I don't mind the TFs, provided we have alternatives, which based on... Everything simply will not happen. Ever.
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Originally Posted by Furio
I think it would be fair to assume that endgame content is going to be treated differently from the 1-50.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Then come up with ideas to give to the devs, that can be consitutated as 'endgame' but still solo, without dumbing down the entire concept of it.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
What I don't think it's fair to assume is that "end game" is the same as "forced teaming." I don't mind the TFs, provided we have alternatives, which based on... Everything simply will not happen. Ever.
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"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
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"Then come up with ideas?"|
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
Then come up with ideas to give to the devs, that can be consitutated as 'endgame' but still solo, without dumbing down the entire concept of it.
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1. Obviously, I'm talking about story arcs written with an Incarnate in mind, such as the arc to unlock the Alpha slot, only more of that.
2. I ALREADY HAVE suggested this, back in GR Beta, back in I19 Beta, and have been suggesting that since the Issue went Live.
3. Designing the game is not my job that I get paid for, and no-one listens to me either way.
The solution to this "problem" is obvious and clear as day, and it's something many people have been asking for: Give us story arcs IN ADDITION to these TFs. But I get the idea that some people's view of "entire concept of it" is tantamount to typical EQ-style raid grind and that anything which isn't punishingly difficult and requiring time commitment, min-maxing, research, preparation, building and the ability to multitask isn't worthy, which is the central problem I have with both the system and the people who insist that brutal difficulty and forced teaming is the only way to go.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Looking forward to more TFs like this.