Tin Mage TF is just ridiculous..
By
BanzaiBadger,
Posted on: 2010-12-19 17:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Bull. There Is No Cow Level.
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Only the cool kids on the block know about the Secret Cow Level.
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I'll just leave these here 
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...MAGERECORD.jpg -- (16:47)
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...APEXRECORD.jpg -- (19:26)
No temps used.
Apex time is longer because 1 member was completely lagged out and another was unable to enter last mission.
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Let the reward nerfage begin!
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I'll just leave these here
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...MAGERECORD.jpg -- (16:47) http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...APEXRECORD.jpg -- (19:26) No temps used. Apex time is longer because 1 member was completely lagged out and another was unable to enter last mission. |
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Folks said the same thing about the ITF when people started finishing it in under 18 minutes, and it got its rewards buffed.
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Originally Posted by Flarstux
Let the reward nerfage begin!
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@Demobot
Also on Steam
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Well, it's not exactly 40 Merits and 2 Shards but I think the difficulty of the Apex/Tin Mage TFs warrant the 14 Merit increase. How fast can the new TFs be done on a PuG? I doubt too fast as the norm, but then again they can't be done at all if you're level 35 through 49 like the ITF can be.
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Originally Posted by Demobot
Folks said the same thing about the ITF when people started finishing it in under 18 minutes, and it got its rewards buffed.
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It can easily be noted that the teams shown featured, respectively, 2 non buff/debuff classes for the Tin Mage, and 1 non buff/debuff class for the Apex. |
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I'll just leave these here
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...MAGERECORD.jpg -- (16:47) http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...APEXRECORD.jpg -- (19:26) No temps used. Apex time is longer because 1 member was completely lagged out and another was unable to enter last mission. |
I am curious what a FRAD team would do in this case. I suspect they might not be optimal for Apex since they are a bit positionally dependent. I can't really say though since I've never run on such a team.
But I know I have done an Apex in 39 minutes on a motley team, and even the all melee Apex team we ran during Beta didn't take all too long.
Too many alts to list.
I dont post much on the forums as is obvious by my post count. But this thread has led me to some thoughts I thought worthy of leaving. There should indeed be soloable Incarnate activities for those who prefer playing alone. At the moment one can gather shards and create Alpha powers without doing any of the TFs or even a Rikti Raid as vanguard merits can be obtained by doing missions in the RWZ. So why one perceives that later updates of the game will not continue to include ways for soloists to play is a little confusing. It should not however be easy.
Many examples in comics lore show characters who are learning or unlocking new abilities as struggling to master and control them and when fighting others who are seasoned in their use as being bested at least at first. This seems right along the lines of the new content being hard-er than what has come before. Also the idea of having to team up to fight powerful enemies is a STAPLE in comics which is what this game's very core is based on.
And lastly this game or any other game or for that matter nothing in life is EVER going to be EXACTLY the way WE think it should be. NOTHING. So as with all things there are two choices: ACCEPT this fact and enjoy what you like and dont do what you dont(While constructively offering criticism that may affect change) or NOT.
Just my two cents which are probably worth nothing in todays economy
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3 Fire/Cold corrs, a fire/kin corr, a scrapper/brute, and 3 other ranged dps would easily out perform 8 fire/rad trollers, especially on Apex.
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Originally Posted by docbuzzard
It can easily be noted that the teams shown featured, respectively, 2 non buff/debuff classes for the Tin Mage, and 1 non buff/debuff class for the Apex.
I am curious what a FRAD team would do in this case. I suspect they might not be optimal for Apex since they are a bit positionally dependent. I can't really say though since I've never run on such a team. But I know I have done an Apex in 39 minutes on a motley team, and even the all melee Apex team we ran during Beta didn't take all too long. |
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JKCarrier's comment about e-peens comes to fruition...|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I'll just leave these here
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...MAGERECORD.jpg -- (16:47) http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...APEXRECORD.jpg -- (19:26) No temps used. Apex time is longer because 1 member was completely lagged out and another was unable to enter last mission. |
After reading this thread, my only comment involves the only other game that even came close to occupying my attention (and hours) as CoH: Tribes and Tribes 2. And my biggest disappointment with that franchise was that the loud forum majority, which was a game minority, succeeded in their wishes to make the game harder. And it killed the franchise. Thanks, jerkwagons.
Perhaps it's only a natural progression, as a game grows older and weeds out casual players, leaving mostly hard-core players who know the system inside and out and demand more of a challenge... to them.
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To take on the airs of that game's forums in a bit more than my usual character here... wut?|
Originally Posted by NuclearToast
After reading this thread, my only comment involves the only other game that even came close to occupying my attention (and hours) as CoH: Tribes and Tribes 2. And my biggest disappointment with that franchise was that the loud forum majority, which was a game minority, succeeded in their wishes to make the game harder. And it killed the franchise. Thanks, jerkwagons.
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I was active in both games' forum communities, and I don't ever remember the T1 community asking for what we got in T2, and I don't remember anyone asking for what we (almost) got with Tribes:Vengeance. T2 was widely received as a big disappointment by most of the forum community.
T2 was significantly slower-paced compared to T1, in a game where the forum regulars were addicted to the raw speed of T1. T2 was both slower-paced and less strategically interesting, since they made practically every structure in the game impossible to defend. Everything was laid out to promote big, open field battles, which only a tiny part of the forum community I ever noticed ever asked for.
Of course, I considered TribalWar the "community" for Tribes, not the game's own forums.
Honestly, what they did to PvP here reminded me of what they did to T2, though it was more severe here in terms of both mechanics and impact to a community.
More to your point, I'm honestly left with the impression that the doomsaying is the forum minority in this matter, even if the mythical average gamer isn't awesomesauce at this game. I haven't seen people doing much more than asking for help with the new stuff, which they don't seem to find that big a deal to do.
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Argh. So I pop out of my hole to try an ITF, figure the kids are occupied and I can team to get some shards and a Nictus Fragment.
Two hours later, I have a raging headache, a few shards, and no Nictus Fragment. Yes, we failed an ITF. Got up to Rommy and couldn't beat him.
It does not make me want to try it again for challenge. CERTAINLY doesn't make me want to try the more challenging Tin Mage or Apex. It makes me want to go back to my quiet soloing for another two months.
*sigh*
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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I haven't failed or heard of a failed ITF, since the Beta. Maybe you should pick up some information on your team based on the way they played through the first few missions.
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Originally Posted by gec72
Argh. So I pop out of my hole to try an ITF, figure the kids are occupied and I can team to get some shards and a Nictus Fragment.
Two hours later, I have a raging headache, a few shards, and no Nictus Fragment. Yes, we failed an ITF. Got up to Rommy and couldn't beat him. It does not make me want to try it again for challenge. CERTAINLY doesn't make me want to try the more challenging Tin Mage or Apex. It makes me want to go back to my quiet soloing for another two months. *sigh* |
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We really didn't seem to have any issues before the final mission, or maybe the end of the third mission when we had a little trouble doing damage to the computer. Very few deaths, decent synergy. Now, I've only been on about five of these or so, but this didn't seem any different from the other times.|
Originally Posted by Bringer_NA
I haven't failed or heard of a failed ITF, since the Beta. Maybe you should pick up some information on your team based on the way they played through the first few missions.
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Somewhere before that last mission we lost a member and went down to 7 (scrapper, I think); at Rommy we lost another (Storm/Elec) due to wife aggro. That left my Ill/TA, a Plant Dom, an ice tank, a brute (underlevel though, I think), and I think a blaster and another defender. We might have done it with 7, but after we dropped to 6 things just fell apart.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Quote:
That would do it.|
Originally Posted by gec72
Somewhere before that last mission we lost a member and went down to 7 (scrapper, I think); at Rommy we lost another (Storm/Elec) due to wife aggro. That left my Ill/TA, a Plant Dom, an ice tank, a brute (underlevel though, I think), and I think a blaster and another defender. We might have done it with 7, but after we dropped to 6 things just fell apart.
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I used to have a lot of trouble with the ITF a year or two ago. Since I returned to the game, I've facerolled every ITF I've been on...except one. Where we had 7 people. We had to pull out a lot of tricks like two Vengeances in a row just to have the firepower to overcome his regen. We succeeded, but it was significantly harder than the ITFs where we had a full 8 people.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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I'm sorry you had a bad time. But it's also a relief to hear that I'm not the only one who has experiences like this. Every so often, I think "Gee, TFs are such a big part of the game, and so many people seem to like them, I should give them another chance." And then I do a few, and remember that they're all either a long, tedious grind, have a ridiculous boss at the end, or both. I'm glad people enjoy them, but I just find them a frustrating slog.
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Originally Posted by gec72
It does not make me want to try it again for challenge. CERTAINLY doesn't make me want to try the more challenging Tin Mage or Apex. It makes me want to go back to my quiet soloing for another two months.
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Thanks, though I'm sure I'll get over it. Just frustrating.
The thing with facing a challenge and then adjusting and wanting to take another go at it is that it's fine if it's a console game where you can lose and then immediately retry. A TF though where it takes anywhere from a half hour to two hours to get back to the same point - after being tied to the keyboard to the possible chagrin of your family for that time already - not as much.
That's actually a pro for someone like Trapdoor solo though I guess.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Quote:
I failed one, serves us right for trying to do the last mission at +4, we breezed thru the rest of it at +4.|
Originally Posted by Bringer_NA
I haven't failed or heard of a failed ITF, since the Beta. Maybe you should pick up some information on your team based on the way they played through the first few missions.
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The only reasons I've seen for failing with a full team are inadvertently killing Rommi such that he doesn't res and being unable to kill the healing nictus, and bad tactics with a very sub optimal team.
Most teams provided they have some tankage, can pull the healing nictus off Rommi, and kill him while he has no heals if they're not capable of just rushing him.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
Honestly, I'm beginning to think the healing Nictus is bugged, or I've been causing it to. Nearly every ITF I've been on the Nictus has stayed at the top of the stairs and unable to heal.
Haven't seen this, and I like to pull Rommy to the front door of the mish (surprise, PUGgers!), so I assume I would have noticed it.
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But i saw it on ewetube.
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Originally Posted by RadDidIt
Bull. There Is No Cow Level.
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The devs learned long ago that soloists comprise a larger portion of the community than they originally thought. There has to be both a balance of rewards, and there's always going to be that incentive to team to drive the social aspect of the game.
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Originally Posted by NightWarrior
I dont post much on the forums as is obvious by my post count. But this thread has led me to some thoughts I thought worthy of leaving. There should indeed be soloable Incarnate activities for those who prefer playing alone. At the moment one can gather shards and create Alpha powers without doing any of the TFs or even a Rikti Raid as vanguard merits can be obtained by doing missions in the RWZ. So why one perceives that later updates of the game will not continue to include ways for soloists to play is a little confusing. It should not however be easy.
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That depends entirely on which era of console gaming you are talking about.
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Originally Posted by gec72
The thing with facing a challenge and then adjusting and wanting to take another go at it is that it's fine if it's a console game where you can lose and then immediately retry. A TF though where it takes anywhere from a half hour to two hours to get back to the same point - after being tied to the keyboard to the possible chagrin of your family for that time already - not as much.
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I have a feeling I've been on one of those. |
Originally Posted by Emberly
Haven't seen this, and I like to pull Rommy to the front door of the mish (surprise, PUGgers!), so I assume I would have noticed it.
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There is a bug/exploit whereby you can force this to happen, maybe you teamed with people who knew how to do it.
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Originally Posted by Bringer_NA
Honestly, I'm beginning to think the healing Nictus is bugged, or I've been causing it to. Nearly every ITF I've been on the Nictus has stayed at the top of the stairs and unable to heal.
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It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA