Accuracy WAS Nerfed
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-11-26 24:04 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
Just to quote that link provided awhile ago, This is the snip-it of how RoTP is described.
" Hang in there. the captain whispered, transfixed by what he was seeing. The chief soldier finally made it to the front. Stepping forward, his dead, alien eyes locked with Alumettes as he pulled a two handed sword glittering with power. BRING IT! she shouted, casing her arms wide. With a flare, the ground around her exploded igniting the breach and turning it into a furnace in seconds. Alien screams filled the air as warrior after warrior pitched over, was flash fried, or backed away trying to put out a flames that burned through energy fields, armor, and flesh with equal voracity. The chief soldier strode into the flames unconcerned to tower at nearly twice Alumettes height. With a double handed swing, the blade slammed into Alumettes body and drove her to the ground with a shriek and crump that cracked ground beneath her. As she tried to rise, he lifted the weapon high over his head and brought it down again, slamming it into her head and back and driving her flat. Dazed, stunned, and now uncertain, Alumette again tried to stand. *First in battle she muttered, blood dropping from her mouth to vaporize in the flames. First to fall she whispered shaking as she tried to push her legs under her. NOOOOO! the captain yelled as he watched the blade rise. With another downward stroke, the Soldier drove the sword into Alumettes prone body, her arms flailing upward as the impact literally drove her into the earth and doused the flames surrounding her with a soft pop. We have them all! the SAS Sergeant said. We HAVE to go! The captain nodded in abject horror. Go go go go go go Get us OUT of here! The VTOL powered up with a roar as the last of the troops came on board. The Chief soldier planted a foot on Alumettes back as his troops surrounded him. Pointing to the rising craft, he screeched a command and in unison the aliens raised their rifles. NEVER FALL! Alumettes voice echoed through the compound heard everywhere and aboard the craft as her fallen body exploded into flames. Twin wings of pure yellow and red fire expanded from her back as she broke free from the ground, her eyes blazing with white hot fury. The captain shielded his face as the warriors surrounding the risen phoenix burst into flames. Lashing a hand forward, the now hovering Alumette seized the Chief Soldier by the throat, and staring into his eyes as the wings of blazing flame enfolded him, she pressed a single finger into his forehead, the touch super-heating his armor and cooking him inside. Letting go, she dropped his corpse to the smoking earth." |
Totally epic. Thanks for reposting that! Makes me want to take another look at my kat/fire ronin dragonlord...
50s:
Grimmloch, Tactically Delicious, Ugly Frankie, Operative Tracker, CryoFurnace, Professional Help, Silver Sphinx, Aries Knight, Tachyon Aegis, Jade Sphinx
Currently building:
Any one of half a dozen alts!
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You're thinking of the streak breaker code. You can do a search for it, or wait for Arcanaville to post an all inclusive write up on it.
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Originally Posted by Red_Thorn
One thing that no one mentioned and I am curious about is the "miss chain correction." (FYI, not completely sure what the standard term for it is/was.) For the longest time (I1 through at least I10, possibly longer) people talked about there being a mechanism in the game that prevented a character from missing too many times in a row. Basically, it guaranteed a hit after X number of misses in a row. I recall that number being 7, but I am relying on memory. The other aspect of this mechanism that was never clear to me was if this miss chain correction mechanism was per power or overall (i.e., if I used, say, Jab and then Punch, is it 7 misses total using both Jab and Punch, or is it 7 misses by Jab and/or 7 misses by Punch)? Do auras with a taunt, fear, damage, or other "to hit" effect count toward the miss chain being interrupted?
I ask because the last few times I've played I have been able to count upwards of 10+ misses in a row before a hit is recorded. I have, at times, been specific to count whether that was per power (rarely) or overall (more often), which leads me to think this miss chain correction mechanism has either been removed, changed, or I don't fully understand when it takes place. Now, I'm not claiming any conspiracy or nerf here -- I may have simply missed this being in an update, it may be something people talked about but wasn't actually in existence, or, again, I may simply not fully understand the mechanic if it does/did exist in the game. From the responses given to the OP, I figure this crowd most likely knows what I'm referring to, most likely knows how it works, and can correct me/inform me of the mechanic. |
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Ask and ye shall receive. First of all, paragonwiki has a description of the streakbreaker here.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Right
You're thinking of the streak breaker code. You can do a search for it, or wait for Arcanaville to post an all inclusive write up on it.
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Here's how it works (including some information not in the article):
1. Zoning resets the streakbreaker.
2. Autohitting powers and effects are ignored by the streakbreaker. They do not count as hits, they do not count as misses ("autohit powers are not included in the system").
3. The number of misses the system will tolerate before forcing the next attack to hit is based on the worst chance to hit during your current miss streak, including the attack being used. See the table in the Paragonwiki article.
4. The streakbreaker only breaks miss streaks by inducing hits. It does not break hit streaks by inducing misses. It can only help you hit.
5. The streakbreaker affects all entities that are allowed to attack. This includes players and critters. Nothing is exempt from the streakbreaker.
6. The streakbreaker tracks attackers, not powers.
7. AoEs roll one tohit roll per target, starting from the closest target to the center of the AoE (or the origin for cones) and working outward.
8. Damage auras roll tohit rolls, and are often overlooked when observing streakbreaker behavior.
9. Unslotted Brawl is one of the biggest killers of the streakbreaker, since it can have a very low chance to hit the target without accuracy slotting. See rule #3 above.
The streakbreaker has been thoroughly tested, specifically by me. I'm pretty sure its still in effect now, given the combat chat continues to give "forced to hit by streakbreaker" messages. If you have a case where you think the streakbreaker has malfunctioned, you can post your combat logs with the miss streak, and see if it did in fact malfunction. In every case so far, however, we've been able to spot the reason behind the apparent malfunction, and its always been due to something that specifically caused the streakbreaker to allow for a longer miss streak than the player thought it ought to, but was consistent with its design.
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[
I've been here since CoH beta, and overall I had never found a game so enjoyable to play as this one. That being said, its things like this that really burns me. It aggravates me to the point of considering moving to that other superhero game coming soon. This "new and improved" inherent accuracy is B.S.[/QUOTE]
As a closed beta tester for that "other superhero game" all I can say is LOL you will be back
"Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." Alfred Pennyworth
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I should write a bot that just crawls the forums following your posts, decides whether it's a post about game mechanics, and updates Paragonwiki automatically. Of course, making it decide what the content of your post is, and making it edit Pwiki correctly and neatly would probably take longer than simply doing it manually |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Ask and ye shall receive.
<...stuff...> |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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You got that right. Some of the worst programs (as in annoying as heck) that I have written have all been "parsing" scripts.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I should write a bot that just crawls the forums following your posts, decides whether it's a post about game mechanics, and updates Paragonwiki automatically. Of course, making it decide what the content of your post is, and making it edit Pwiki correctly and neatly would probably take longer than simply doing it manually
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Why can't everything just be IF...THEN ?
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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Post WAI. Sadly it didn't provoke a response from the OP |
Originally Posted by New Dawn
I find this post provocative.
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All I wanted was him saying "Sorry guys, I was wrong", not vaguely "some of the random information I might have used could have been wrong which may possibly have caused misinterpreted results from my vaguely presented what-may-be data."Quote:
| Don't do ego on the internet. It just wrong. I give in to it now and then but I know its wrong thats partly why I have my sig. |
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
After reviewing this thread in its entirety, and being educated on the matter of the accuracy calculation, (Thanks much btw) I can safely say I strongly doubt Accuracy was nerfed at all, or even high level characters would miss at least 5 times in a row on same-level minions, with IOs/SOs.
That said, it's still really FREAKIN' annoying to have to play with teams who whine about the difficulty being to low at +0, then being wiped because running at +2 really DOES make a difference in tohit chances.
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Not only are they harder to hit, but more importantly the critters will be dealing 46.4% more damage to you.|
Originally Posted by Jacinto
That said, it's still really FREAKIN' annoying to have to play with teams who whine about the difficulty being to low at +0, then being wiped because running at +2 really DOES make a difference in tohit chances.
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(They will be 20% more accurate and deal 22% more damage per attack due to level scaling: 1.2 * 1.22 = 1.464, 46.4% more damage)
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NO MATH IS WRONG HAHAHAHAHA. It's been wrong for centuries!
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Pfft, Everything Arcanaville says is a mathematical gem. Just have the bot crawl the forums and log every post of hers, in order, in it's own special "Arcanaville-ville" section of Paragonwiki!
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I should write a bot that just crawls the forums following your posts, decides whether it's a post about game mechanics, and updates Paragonwiki automatically. Of course, making it decide what the content of your post is, and making it edit Pwiki correctly and neatly would probably take longer than simply doing it manually
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I have honestly found that honest, heartfelt apologies from those who have misunderstood something and discovered that they have made a mistake are VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, [counts... yeah, that's about right] VERY rare on the Internet. More commonly the poster will simply disappear without admitting any wrongdoing. I attribute it to human nature, and the anonymity of the medium. |
Originally Posted by DSorrow
Post WAI. Sadly it didn't provoke a response from the OP
All I wanted was him saying "Sorry guys, I was wrong", not vaguely "some of the random information I might have used could have been wrong which may possibly have caused misinterpreted results from my vaguely presented what-may-be data." |
At this point, continuing to beat the dead horse, or OP, as the case may be, is pointless. And it's actually just as much human nature to continue to do just that.
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I considered just retelling that final scene, with her bringing down the cataclysmic explosion on the last words of the Tanker's Credo; "First in battle, First to fall, Never fall." But I finally decided I had too much respect for the original author not to post it in full. |
Originally Posted by Telperion
Totally epic. Thanks for reposting that! Makes me want to take another look at my kat/fire ronin dragonlord...
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That story's just stuck with me since the first time I read it.
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This sounds like a conspiracy, don't let Nemesis find out, you'll get sued.|
Bad_Dog Says: First the quick background: So a few days ago, after a frustrating night of fanning enemies with Shadow Maul with a new alt, I went on a quest to pursue the question again. This time i used a different approach. I asked the question, "If I were going to nerf accuracy and wanted it to be as unnoticeable as possible, how would i do it? That question led me right to the answer and how the accuracy nerf was snuck in. |
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Memphis_Bill Says: 2. There's a conspiracy between the devs and the rest of the playerbase to hide an accuracy nerf. Nobody will admit to anything, except *you.* |
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Bad_Dog Says: I've been here since CoH beta, and overall I had never found a game so enjoyable to play as this one. That being said, its things like this that really burns me. It aggravates me to the point of considering moving to that other superhero game coming soon. This "new and improved" inherent accuracy is B.S. |
I haven't noticed any decrease in accuracy even for Dark Melee, and that is on one of my two mains. I have been playing for some time. He misses alot, it's true, but that is part of the charm of that set.
Have a good day Sir. As for everybody else in this thread. Have we quite finished picking apart the math in the game? Or are there even more Nemesis related plots afoot?
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Originally Posted by Galactoman
Poor Coyote... I've always wondered what he did to piss off Statesman badly enough to earn himself a lifetime of telling newbies to punch sick people...
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Ooohhhh Snap - 50th level Fire/Kinetic Controller - Guardian
Frigid Hottie - 50th level Fire/Cold Controller - Guardian
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I got one the other day! Someone I'd argued with not only apologized me, but gleemailed me a recipe I'd been griping about not being able to find for sale.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I have honestly found that honest, heartfelt apologies from those who have misunderstood something and discovered that they have made a mistake are VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, [counts... yeah, that's about right] VERY rare on the Internet.
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The human brain is really bad at reading and predicting odds (it's why we play the lottery). In fact the better your accuracy the more often you'd notice and get annoyed by misses. The brain has a way of exaggerating odds to make them better or worse. If your hit rate is 50% you expect to miss a lot so it doesn't annoy you if you miss three times in a row. If your accuracy is 95% that means you should miss one in 20 attacks, but your brain thinks "I should never miss EVER!" and every miss annoys you. If your odds were 99% you'd get so used to hitting that every miss would be the most annoying thing ever.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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What's this guy talking about ? I NEVER miss.
..sometimes i accidentally hit the ground or the ceiling or the air instead of a bad guy i was aiming at, but i don't miss!
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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True story:|
Originally Posted by Dispari
The human brain is really bad at reading and predicting odds (it's why we play the lottery). In fact the better your accuracy the more often you'd notice and get annoyed by misses. The brain has a way of exaggerating odds to make them better or worse. If your hit rate is 50% you expect to miss a lot so it doesn't annoy you if you miss three times in a row. If your accuracy is 95% that means you should miss one in 20 attacks, but your brain thinks "I should never miss EVER!" and every miss annoys you. If your odds were 99% you'd get so used to hitting that every miss would be the most annoying thing ever.
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Back in I6ish, Castle stated on the forums that SR had received a small buff, of 1.875% to the passives, increasing them from 5.625% to 7.5%. I heard many people in broadcast on the test server commenting on how much better the set was with this buff, and how much stronger it felt to play.
I, on the other hand, couldn't tell the difference. Of course, it would be hard to tell the difference between 5.625% base defense and 7.5% base defense, but I was convinced the set was exactly the same, and I thought after so long playing the set I would notice such a change.
So I actually tested the defenses of SR using a method I had just recently invented, using the streakbreaker to obtain extremely accurate measurements of defense (this was long before Real Numbers). What I measured the passives being was 5.7%, plus or minus 0.1%. I told Castle this, and asked if it was possible his buff was like off by a decimal place, and it accidentally only increased by 0.1875% or something like that.
After checking, Castle reported to the forums that in fact the change had not made it into the build, and in fact SR had not been buffed at all. Oops. I often wonder how all those people that reported the buff significantly improving the performance of the set in their testing felt after that revelation.
What does this have to do with anything? Not sure: I just like telling the the story of how my math b*tch-slapped Castle. But then he became the lead powers designer and I had to kiss his butt, so I guess he got the last laugh on me. You'd be surprised how absolutely ineffective it has been over the years, when I've had a balance disagreement with Castle, to say "hey, remember that time I proved you wrong on the forums? don't make me do it again." Because Castle would just say "you know, I could knock those SR passives down to 4.5% and its not like anyone would even notice" and I would have to shut up.
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Okay going with that, let's say all the responses had been sweet then maybe he would of been sweet. It's sometimes for some reason (and no I ain't analysed this thread cos I don't do complicated) to apologize for one thing when perhaps someone else has reason to apologize back.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I have honestly found that honest, heartfelt apologies from those who have misunderstood something and discovered that they have made a mistake are VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, [counts... yeah, that's about right] VERY rare on the Internet. More commonly the poster will simply disappear without admitting any wrongdoing. I attribute it to human nature, and the anonymity of the medium.
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Anyways I know I can be a bit of a bulldog (flatters self cos I been drinking) at times but when more than one person is emphasizing the boil down to point of someone not doing the homework can sometimes come across as collective bullying! Maybe not in this case I dunno!
To not make mistakes is to not be human.
*back to reading wikileaks*
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
With the talk about hits, misses, and streaking (err streak breaking, don't know where my mind was for a minute), I have some questions about the ability I have recently discovered to display game numbers on screen. I specifically have my last hit chance showing (as well as a few other numbers) for my fire/storm controller. After several hours of game play, watching this number, I have observed only two results. 0% (eg I havnt been in combat for a time) or 95%.
I have a fair number of IO's nothing to exciting or exotic. I posted a build some years back and expect a search would still find it (I am back from a break).
I expected to see the hit chance change around a bit. Respond to debuffs, mobs over 50, etc.
Maybe I just stand too far back? Except I do a fair percentage of my total damage with hotfeet.
I can provide any specific numbers or information about the character, or is this the way things tend to be? A friend who tanks and does much more melee had suggested tracking last hit chance to know when to back off a moment.
Any thoughts?
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Maybe you just have a gigaton of accuracy and tohit buffs. Also, the combat attributes real time monitor is not ultrafast: it only updates every half second or so, so its possible for a temporarily low tohit value to zip by without you seeing it.|
Originally Posted by _Zep_
With the talk about hits, misses, and streaking (err streak breaking, don't know where my mind was for a minute), I have some questions about the ability I have recently discovered to display game numbers on screen. I specifically have my last hit chance showing (as well as a few other numbers) for my fire/storm controller. After several hours of game play, watching this number, I have observed only two results. 0% (eg I havnt been in combat for a time) or 95%.
I have a fair number of IO's nothing to exciting or exotic. I posted a build some years back and expect a search would still find it (I am back from a break). I expected to see the hit chance change around a bit. Respond to debuffs, mobs over 50, etc. Maybe I just stand too far back? Except I do a fair percentage of my total damage with hotfeet. I can provide any specific numbers or information about the character, or is this the way things tend to be? A friend who tanks and does much more melee had suggested tracking last hit chance to know when to back off a moment. Any thoughts? |
In your actual combat chat windows, there is a channel specifically for tohit rolls which you can add to the display. If you add that, perhaps to a new free tab, you can see every tohit roll your character makes (and for that matter, every tohit roll anything that attacks you makes). You could look at that to see what your chance to hit looks like over long periods of time.
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That sounds like it could set off a nasty spiral of you math-smacking Castle, him stealth nerfing, you finding it and come up with another math-smack which would only lead to more stealth nerfs. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
What does this have to do with anything? Not sure: I just like telling the the story of how my math b*tch-slapped Castle. But then he became the lead powers designer and I had to kiss his butt, so I guess he got the last laugh on me. You'd be surprised how absolutely ineffective it has been over the years, when I've had a balance disagreement with Castle, to say "hey, remember that time I proved you wrong on the forums? don't make me do it again." Because Castle would just say "you know, I could knock those SR passives down to 4.5% and its not like anyone would even notice" and I would have to shut up.
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Eventualy the front 5 pages would be filled with your posts and everyone will have negitive defense and to-hit (or maybe the mobs would simply have ultra-buffed def and to-hit?).
Also, I've found this topic enlightening. I know I've always gone a little heavy on acc slotting, but didn't realise just how much overkill it's been.
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
That...was a Herocon 09 exclusive easter egg. The powerset will not have doves associated with it.
Namely because you guys would want to color tint the damn doves, or make them hawks/ravens/flying sharks/etc and that's just a headache I do...not...want...to deal with. |
And keeps going... and going... and going...
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This is the thread that never ends, it goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting not knowing what it was, and it keeps on going just because... This is the thread that never ends, it goes on and on my friend|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
And keeps going... and going... and going...
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*Is interrupted by Castle kicking in the door and throwing a Hamidon at Sai!*
One thing that no one mentioned and I am curious about is the "miss chain correction." (FYI, not completely sure what the standard term for it is/was.) For the longest time (I1 through at least I10, possibly longer) people talked about there being a mechanism in the game that prevented a character from missing too many times in a row. Basically, it guaranteed a hit after X number of misses in a row. I recall that number being 7, but I am relying on memory. The other aspect of this mechanism that was never clear to me was if this miss chain correction mechanism was per power or overall (i.e., if I used, say, Jab and then Punch, is it 7 misses total using both Jab and Punch, or is it 7 misses by Jab and/or 7 misses by Punch)? Do auras with a taunt, fear, damage, or other "to hit" effect count toward the miss chain being interrupted?
I ask because the last few times I've played I have been able to count upwards of 10+ misses in a row before a hit is recorded. I have, at times, been specific to count whether that was per power (rarely) or overall (more often), which leads me to think this miss chain correction mechanism has either been removed, changed, or I don't fully understand when it takes place. Now, I'm not claiming any conspiracy or nerf here -- I may have simply missed this being in an update, it may be something people talked about but wasn't actually in existence, or, again, I may simply not fully understand the mechanic if it does/did exist in the game.
From the responses given to the OP, I figure this crowd most likely knows what I'm referring to, most likely knows how it works, and can correct me/inform me of the mechanic.