Accuracy WAS Nerfed

Okay I have neither the time or the inclination to address everyone with dozens of comments all directed at me so let's reply to the generic overall point you all are making.

Side note: I'd appreciate it if we can cease the condescention. If we want to make this a school yard scrap, fine, I can be just as nasty. I didn't insult any of you, so let's keep this civilized.

People are pointing out (Player Base Acc) .75 * (Power Acc) 1.0 = .75 ToHit

I had stated using original power accuracy numbers then comparing them to MIDS "accuracy" we get 1.0 - .25 = .75 Accuracy

After seeing that screenshot, from gameboy1234, I assume that when Mids says "Accuracy" for an unslotted power they really mean "ToHit". If that's the case then A) Mids has an error because a powers Accuracy and your chance ToHit are not the same things to players and then B) they math that some of you are pointing out works like you say it does.

So, baring any contradictory evidence, I will concede for the moment that one of the variables I am using is suspect. And let's move that to a non-issue for the moment. I'm not saying the result is wrong, it simply means my source of one of the variables is incorrect. But I will clarify this in a sec.

Accuracy reduction is not a myth. And I will be the first to acknowledge my own in-game testing seems to point that the "math" being presented works out correctly. The point of what I posted is that we noticebaly began missing suddenly, like 3, 4 and 5 times in a row and now requiring 2 accuracy enhancements or a higher level IO to compensate for it. I have been here since CoH Beta and this was never the case. Sure, there was always reasons to slot extra accuracy but not because you are missing consistently with a power of 100% and an Accuracy SO.

Back to the math that some of you are throwing around. I said there was a 25% reduction in accuracy because I compared old values to Mids values. You guys are saying that same 25% accuracy reduction is because of a players default accuracy. Your formula and my formula may be different but we are both talking about the exact same number, a -25% accuracy to powers.

The 75% player base accuracy you all brought up. This was not in my calculation since I only used the previous power numbers I had available and Mids. But since you rolled this out, let's play with it.

100% is the same as 1.0. 1 is one, and one is a whole. If I have a pie its "one" pie. If I cut it in quarters and give my girlfriend a slice, I lost 25% and still have 3/4's or 75% of a pie. Jab has an accuracy of 100% since it is intended to hit as often as most other things. A player base of 100% would mean it was intended to hit as often as anything else. A player base accuracy of 75% makes no sense at all unless it had previously been 100%, otherwise the number behind the ".75" would be 100%. For example, if everytime I baked a pie it was 7.5 ounces, I would say 7.5 ounces is a whole pie or 100%, not 75% because I could make them 10 ounces. If I am making 10 ounce pies and started making them 7.5 ounce pies, you would say I reduced my pies 25%. What you guys aren't seeing is that we are both acknowledging a negative reduction to a power while trying to say -25% is no reduction in accuracy. That's silly.

The point of my post remains unchanged. Powers are -25%. Apparently, you all would rather try to convince me there is no -25% than believe that something like this could have been slipped by us.

You know, you could just log in and look at the numbers for yourself. They are all in game, and your attack rolls are plainly visible in the Combat Window.



I told you there was no way to convince him. Reality is a myth. Opinion trumps facts. He who yells the loudest is right. Experts are wrong.

Being civilized here lasted... 0 posts, nice.

You know, you may be unfamiliar with this concept but some of us grownups go to a place we call "work" and are required to stay there for many hours in a row. We can use the internet but they frown on employees playing games.

I take it you're not a programmer? There's an excellent reason to do it like that. You only need to repeat the hit check calculation once that way. If you bake in the probability, you need to repeat it every time you have something that requires at hit check.

Needless to say that's horribly inefficient for what's one of the most used pieces of code we can see. Instead we have the generic hit check code where you can insert variables into depending on different circumstances. A player attacking an even level minion calls the .75 value while the minion hitting back calls the .5 value. You just used the same piece of code twice. Which is the whole point in using variables.

Bad_Dog, this is the part where adults admit they were wrong, maybe even laugh about it, and move on.. Not keeping digging a deeper hole.

Seriously.

One more try at phrasing it so that it will be understood...

All entities have a base chance to to hit. It in fact is called "tohit". Most NPC entities have a .50 (50%) tohit. Players have a .75 (75%) tohit. You can increase your tohit value with powers like Aim, Tactics, Build Up, etcetera, and also through temp powers and some set bonuses.

All powers have an accuracy rating. Called accuracy. Most of the time it is 1, but not always; some powers are autohit and don't use an attack roll at all, and some have a lower or higher starting value. On slottable powers the accuracy can usually be increased.

Now, when you attack something the server makes an attack roll. The target number for that attack roll is your current tohit value multiplied by the current accuracy of whatever power is being used to attack.

Now, a player with the standard tohit of .75 is attacking using an unslotted power with a base accuracy of 1.0.

.75 times 1.0 gives you your final chance to hit the target assuming an even con target with no defense. That chance to hit the target is 75%.
If your accuracy was really .75 you'd multiply it by your .75 tohit to get 56%.

The final number that determines an attack's chance to hit is that power's accuracy multiplied by your tohit.
Accuracy is not the final number used to determine your ability to hit with an attack. Accuracy is what you multiply your tohit by to determine the actual % chance to hit with an attack.

*sheesh*
i'm not a math wizard by any means, and even i understand this.

This is your problem. The 75% base attribute people were talking about is ToHit, not Accuracy. Base Player Accuracy is 1.00.

If we're going to split hairs tohit is an attribute that a character has, and accuracy is an attribute each attack has. You multiply your character's tohit by the power's accuracy. Two separate but closely related attributes.

Look, you obviously are refusing to accept the truth. The truth is the to hit chance of player characters in this game has ALWAYS been 75%. It has been that way since the release of the game. If the chance for a player to hit with a Jab was 100%, there would be no reason to slot for Accuracy. You would have a 95% chance to hit, only because there is a 5% chance to miss in all cases. Outside of that "cap" on to hit, however, every attack you made would automatically hit.

*Accuracy* is by definition a multiplicative modifier that makes a particular attack better or worse than the base. An attack with 100% Accuracy does not modify the chance to hit. An attack with 120% accuracy increases the chance to hit by 20%. An attack with 80% Accuracy has only 80% of the normal chance to hit. The reason why Accuracy is defined this way is because entities with different base chance to hit may use the same attack. While player characters have a 75% chance to hit, computer controlled characters have only a 50% chance to hit. Accuracy ensures that a more accurate attack will be, in the same ratio across all characters, more likely to hit the target.

As a side effect, slotting an attack for Accuracy increases its Accuracy, not the character's to hit. Thus if you slot an SO for +33% Accuracy, you get your chance to hit multiplied by 133%, not 33% added to your chance to hit. (That is, you get a 75%*1.333=100% chance to hit, not a 75%+33%=108% chance to hit) If have a +tohit bonus, however, say from Tactics, this will be added to your 75% chance to hit and then again increased by another 33%.

Your "pie" is a 75% chance to hit. You have 100% of a 75% chance to hit. Your "pie" has not been reduced from a 100% chance to hit, which it never has been, to a 75% chance to hit. It has been 75% since the day the game was released.

I was going to mention set bonuses, but I just realized those bonuses are applied to each power, despite what the Combat Attributes window says.

Note to OP: See, ^this is how you admit you're wrong.

Sort of... there is global +Accuracy to worry about too, like from IO bonuses. But you could argue that that is applied to your powers before the fact.

Some have been; Dsorrow was quite civil in his first post, but being civilized is failing to correct your wild misconceptions. If the words of even knowledgeable posters are going to fall on deaf ears, one might as well at least get some enjoyment out of it.

To that end, I submit this link for consideration.

Technically speaking, players do not have Accuracy, attacks have Accuracy. (Also what Schizmatrix said)

The best way to explain it is probably to compare it to damage scale. Power Bolt, the first attack in Energy Blast, has a damage scale of 1.0. This is apparently the base against which all other attacks are measured. Power Burst, for instance, with a damage scale of 2.12, will presumably therefore do 2.12 times the damage of Power Burst.

An AT has a different damage modifier that effects their damage, though. Thus, a Blaster with Power Burst will do a lot more damage than a Defender with Power Burst. The Blaster will do 1.125 times the damage scale, while the Defender will do 0.65 times the damage scale. This value will then be applied to the damage tables with regard to the character's level, and the final damage will be calculated. (Plus, Enhancements and other buffs will be added in and have an effect)

Everyone has the same to hit chance, but the Accuracy of the attack is just the scale of that attack's ability to hit compared to the base, just as the damage scale is the scale of that attack's damage compared to the AT's base. And just like damage scale, it varies by attack, so some attacks can be more accurate than others.

Seriously, if the devs had lowered base to hit from 75% to, say, 70% they MIGHT be able to get away with it on perception alone. It would be given away instantly the moment anyone opened a Combat Window, but if this was still back in the days when we had no Combat Attributes it MIGHT slip past us. For a while.

But reducing our to hit from 100% to 75%? For one thing, that would make performance prior to level 22 much, much easier. We would have a 100% chance to hit. Add the bonus they GAVE us to to hit prior to level 20, to cut down on the number of times lowbies missed, and that would be even HIGHER. Never mind not needing to slot Accuracy any more, you wouldn't need to slot accuracy EVER, not even prior to level 20. So we would go from essentially never missing at all (5% of the time) to missing at the rate we are now.

Even worse would be if the devs actually lowered to hit by 25% like he said from the current base of 75%. That's effectively the 50% chance to hit that we players currently have in PvP. That's certainly very noticable. Your chance to hit would not be 3/4 what it is right now, it would be 2/3. For a base attack against a target with no Defense you would be missing twice as often. That would NOT be a stealth nerf.

Inn'it? Wanna take bets on the next systemic misunderstanding?

I'm thinking "How are Super Reflexes and Shield Defense characters so tough just because they're wearing soft caps? Where do I get that costume option?"

Darn it, now I'm hungry.

This reminds me of a quote from Blade, unfortunately I'm not able to repeat it here. I'll just say that it's from after Blade fights Frost, and it rhymes with "pXhKzY0BKwY".