Accuracy WAS Nerfed

Mr_Right · 12-17-2010 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

Some powers are like that. Not sure of the technical details, but it has to do with how the game engine taps into the random roll system to print combat chat. Its not "clean."

Well I wanna thank you and Undone for calming my fears and reminding me that no the game isn't broken, I just don't understand it enough.

Vidszhite · 12-17-2010 05:43 PM

This thread is still here?

Schismatrix · 12-17-2010 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Void_Huntress

I'm still of the opinion that those in isolation don't qualify as 'content'.

If a scrapper manages to get all the pylons down and through the mothership, that'd be soloing content.

GMs also not so much, unless it's as part of something larger.

A few players have done a Mothership raid solo. i know one was a Mastermind, but i don't remember what AT others were. Downed all the Pylons and then took on the Rikti on the ship. i doubt that they took out U'kon, but i think a duo might have.

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Kyria_Shirako · 12-17-2010 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vidszhite

This thread is still here?

Really, I think you beat me to my entire sentiment on the topic. Amazing how far one paranoid, math-deficient rave about hidden accuracy nerfs has blossomed. o.o

Tenzhi · 12-18-2010 12:36 AM

If my accuracy got nerfed, I missed it...

But then, if my accuracy was nerfed I could expect to miss a lot of things, so how would I know?

Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

LarsNL · 12-18-2010 12:23 PM

Just started reading this. I think it's quite amusing.

One thing that's been mentioned a few times though is how "Mids' told me... [long story]... so I came to conclude power X doesn't have 120% acc, but 90% acc. Why? Because Mids' says.".
As has been mentioned before Mids' shows your chance to hit, not accuracy... in that particular place you're looking, at least.

Two revelations for people who trust Mids' with their life:

1) Mids' isn't a product of little developer underlings in the game engine spitting it out directly from there. It's third party - it can be wrong.
2) HOWEVER, good news: coincidentally Mids' does have the right numbers - you just don't know where to look. Lock a power, go to Window -> Data View and oh my what's that? Accuracy, second attribute on the list.

Much confusions on topics like this one can be prevented not only if people had a better understanding of the mechanics themselves, but even if only they had better knowledge of the program they choose to follow blindly instead.

Teh_Valcarde · 12-20-2010 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha

Someone... tried to argue with Arcanaville?!

I know, right?

Madam_Enigma · 12-20-2010 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenzhi

If my accuracy got nerfed, I missed it...

But then, if my accuracy was nerfed I could expect to miss a lot of things, so how would I know?

I lol'd. Got any more roflmao material?

"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

Jade_Dragon · 12-20-2010 10:53 AM

Just to say it, the pwning of the OP has already been handled, and we do not need to start the thread all over again just to go at him for a second round.

Arcanaville · 12-20-2010 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarsNL

Two revelations for people who trust Mids' with their life:

1) Mids' isn't a product of little developer underlings in the game engine spitting it out directly from there. It's third party - it can be wrong.
2) HOWEVER, good news: coincidentally Mids' does have the right numbers - you just don't know where to look. Lock a power, go to Window -> Data View and oh my what's that? Accuracy, second attribute on the list.

In fact, even Real Numbers can be wrong since the devs are not infallible. Its just that because of how it works, it can only be wrong in certain ways. For example, if it tells you the intrinsic accuracy of a power is 1.2, then its 1.2. Its extremely unlikely to be wrong because it pulls that data directly from the power database which itself is pulled from the same source as the game engine. It only reads, it doesn't make up numbers. On the other hand, if it tells you the power does such and such damage, those effects are calculated with rather complex algorithms to account for all the ways a power can work, and that can sometimes be in error (usually by omitting something).

A classic example of this occurs when the Real Numbers system tells you what your smashing defense is. The combat attributes will tell you what your net smashing defense is, and all buffs and debuffs on you. Interestingly, it can happen that the buffs and debuffs are wrong, but the total is correct. How that can happen is that the Real Numbers system pulls buffs and debuffs from a source comparable to the buff bar - it looks for all buffs and debuffs on the player and itemizes them. But it doesn't add them up: it pulls the total directly from the running attributes of the player. Real Numbers cannot always figure out things like resistances to debuffs, so sometimes the debuffs listed are the unresisted values, but the player is experiencing less of the debuff. Thus, the debuffs might be listed too high, but the total is still accurate because Real Numbers pulls that data from an authoritative source.

These kinds of things are important to know when attempting to use the game's own numbers to test itself.

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NordBlast · 12-20-2010 11:54 AM

Recharge debuffs is another classic example where Real Numbers are wrong. It might show your recharge is debuffed by more than -1000%, but recharge is capped at -75%

Adeon Hawkwood · 12-20-2010 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

In fact, even Real Numbers can be wrong since the devs are not infallible. Its just that because of how it works, it can only be wrong in certain ways. For example, if it tells you the intrinsic accuracy of a power is 1.2, then its 1.2. Its extremely unlikely to be wrong because it pulls that data directly from the power database which itself is pulled from the same source as the game engine. It only reads, it doesn't make up numbers. On the other hand, if it tells you the power does such and such damage, those effects are calculated with rather complex algorithms to account for all the ways a power can work, and that can sometimes be in error (usually by omitting something).

Although even with accuracy the displayed accuracy might not be the one used when the power actually rolls to hit. Pseudo Pet powers display the accuracy you use when you summon the pet rather than the accuracy the pet power itself uses (Rain of Arrows is a good example).

Madam_Enigma · 12-20-2010 07:42 PM

Another example of real numbers being wrong or misleading might be for instance Jolting Chain in electric control. It's a low damage attack/KD control. But when looking at it's info, it says at level 50 it'll do 160+ damage per use. And it might, if it hits every enemy it possibly can. It shows for the damage total not per enemy, but ideal situation of it chaining to 15 or 16 enemies.

"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

Arcanaville · 12-20-2010 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma

Another example of real numbers being wrong or misleading might be for instance Jolting Chain in electric control. It's a low damage attack/KD control. But when looking at it's info, it says at level 50 it'll do 160+ damage per use. And it might, if it hits every enemy it possibly can. It shows for the damage total not per enemy, but ideal situation of it chaining to 15 or 16 enemies.

Jolting Chain is an example of the Real Numbers system being confronted with a novel power. JC uses a system of pseudo-pets to deliver its damage, but Real Numbers does not understand the complex logic that the pets obey in being cast and recast, and it thinks the power just invokes a ton of pets that all do damage all the time.

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seebs · 12-21-2010 12:34 AM

Pseudopets cause all sorts of problems for Real Numbers. Is Rain of fire really an accuracy 2.00 power? Why, yes, yes it is. It is very very likely to successfully summon its pseudopet. However, that pseudopet has only normal 1.00 accuracy unless you slot the power for accuracy. Does Poison Gas Trap autohit? Well, yes and no; the regen debuff does, the hold doesn't. I still can't find anything that'll tell me whether PGT gives me 10 seconds of regen debuff and then it's done debuffing, or whether there's a persistant cloud that keeps giving out those 10 second regen debuffs, or what. Except experimenting, which I guess is valid.