No, we don't "need a healer!"
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-04-01 05:33 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
In the past week, I've been told twice "I'd rather have anything BUT an Empath".
Having teamed with ones which don't announce that they're going to throw an aura out there, or ever Fortitude someone, I can see why.*
*
Quote:
Don't even get me started on this one. I have five kins and the only one I like to play is the one without SB.|
Originally Posted by PhroX
To be honest, these days I see more "we need a kin". And it's just as wrong. Yes, even if you're a Stone tank, you still don't need a kin....
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PhroX
I can understand this. SBing everyone every 2 minutes is the most pointlessly tedious thing in the game. Why the devs haven't done something about it I'll never understand.
|
* I will generally only play a kin if someone does have a stone tank (to keep the team moving) or with friends. Otherwise my role is so often defined by one power of one of my powersets. A power which does nothing to benefit me but actively takes my time away from doing something much more useful EG FS. (See my experience recently in the Rude Tells thread; I'm a moron for not taking SB
.)What is great about this game is the variety. The fact you have have offensive defenders etc. Providing everyone who is involved in the team does use their powerset effectively, who cares what that powerset is. (Master TFs being the exception.)
SAVE CoX info:
Titan Network efforts
Saving CoX events/FB info
Quote:
That would scream for a broadcast 'Learn to play!'
|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Im on Freedom and Virtue.I see the Broadcast cry for Healer every time I login.
Same goes for a cry for a Tank.Every time I login. |
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
I hate it when I make a team, usually of people who are broadcasting 'lvl _ _ lft", and then getting grief for not finding a healer. "Go f_cking solo then!"
@Joshua.
Anymore, if someone asks, "does anyone heal?" I simply type:
[Respite]
[Dramatic Improvement]
Then hopefully, someone agrees, quieting the search for a 'needed' healer, and we can move on. If it doesn't, well, I can only endure waiting on the 'LF Healer' for so long.
Quote:
I believe it is becaues of the powerlevel of the power and how much it adds to the team. I believe they are attempting to 'balance' it by requiring that it be reapplied every 2 minutes, thusly, if you want to keep it up constantly, you have to be vigilant.|
Originally Posted by PhroX
I can understand this. SBing everyone every 2 minutes is the most pointlessly tedious thing in the game. Why the devs haven't done something about it I'll never understand.
|
That said, yes, it can get tedious, but boy, oh boy, does it benefit the team.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
What bugs me most about the whole "healing" thing in here, though, is that people will concentrate on it - even on non-emps - and just not bother to learn how big of an impact the rest of their powers can have. I don't just mean the "pure emp, take no attacks, add medicine pool" types. I mean the Kinetics that do nothing but transfusion and, later, transferrence pretty much. Or the rad with nothing but mutation and the healing aura. Or the thermal that won't take the shields - or much of anything else, just the heals and rez.
|
A familiar story: I teamed with a Radiation Defender on a LGTF who only used Healing Aura on auto and Mutation to rez people and asked, "Aren't my heals awesome? Aren't you glad I'm here?" Well...yes, but you wouldn't need to use them hardly at all if you'd just use your Eneverating Field and Radiation Infection. I just assumed they were 'new' or young or something and left it without a comment, but that's the main reason people want to expand people's minds beyond simply 'healing.'
Member of:
Repeat Offenders Network - The Largest Coalition Network in the Game, across Virtue, Freedom, Justice and Exalted. Open to all, check us out.
Current Team Project: Pending
Well its that a healer is not wanted , maybe you can insert we dont need a tank .
Cause truth is you dont .
You dont need a controller , you dont need a blaster you dont need anything .
Since depending on your team makeup this game is about players who understand it .
And depending on the difficulty setting its more who are willing to do work .
And who are the runners .
You have a team of 8 and 6 of them run at half health . instead of popping inspiration.
Boy the last 2 who fight wish they had a healer, or one of them is a healer .
You have a team of 8 and nobody run , who cares about a healer who cares about a tank .
Everything dies fast enough since players are skilled enough .
And hardly go down in team settings . and if they do they just selfdestruct for no debt.
Quote:
As I've said in many a team when the leader said "We need a healer"...|
Originally Posted by Lonelyshade
Well its that a healer is not wanted , maybe you can insert we dont need a tank .
Cause truth is you dont . You dont need a controller , you dont need a blaster you dont need anything . Since depending on your team makeup this game is about players who understand it . And depending on the difficulty setting its more who are willing to do work . And who are the runners . You have a team of 8 and 6 of them run at half health . instead of popping inspiration. Boy the last 2 who fight wish they had a healer, or one of them is a healer . You have a team of 8 and nobody run , who cares about a healer who cares about a tank . Everything dies fast enough since players are skilled enough . And hardly go down in team settings . and if they do they just selfdestruct for no debt. |
No, you don't need a healer. You want a Defender.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
I almost never make calls for people to "gather" for any AoE buffs. I simply position myself as best I can while the team is rolling and fire them off. That whole hey-everybody-stop-what-you're-doing-and-gather-around-me thing has always seemed a bit self-important, bossy, and irritating to me.
|
Originally Posted by Capa_Devans
In the past week, I've been told twice "I'd rather have anything BUT an Empath".
Having teamed with ones which don't announce that they're going to throw an aura out there, or ever Fortitude someone, I can see why.* * |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I almost never make calls for people to "gather" for any AoE buffs. I simply position myself as best I can while the team is rolling and fire them off. That whole hey-everybody-stop-what-you're-doing-and-gather-around-me thing has always seemed a bit self-important, bossy, and irritating to me.
|
Agreed. I always just pick a good spot and do it in the middle of combat. Cannae be bothered calling everyone to gather together. If someone is standing way behind and doesn't get the auras then they probably don't need em anyway.
I Fort as I go too according to whomever doesn't currently have it and I think benefits from all its aspects best, which is rarely the Tank unless they're struggling to survive. AOE Blasters and Scrappers usually, or buffing Defenders like FF, Cold, Sonics or other Empaths.
I've seen empaths call out to gather for RA... mid combat. Which I guess means they want my tanker with capped aggro to suddenly stop punchvoking everything in the fight, run out of melee (cause the empath is usually far behind us), and let the 17 enemies get aggroed on someone else. Say the blaster for example who just launched a fireball?
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
Same. I usually just find a good place to get 4-5 people and fire it off. If we're waiting around before a fight, I might say "AM" and give them a couple of secs to get to me, but on a moving team, or any in a fight, I won't bother.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I almost never make calls for people to "gather" for any AoE buffs. I simply position myself as best I can while the team is rolling and fire them off. That whole hey-everybody-stop-what-you're-doing-and-gather-around-me thing has always seemed a bit self-important, bossy, and irritating to me.
|
Though, on my Widow, I don't even do that: Mind Link is on auto
(mainly cos I solo a lot on that char, and given that it's a key part of my softcapped def, it's just easier to have it going off automatically than having to keep watching it)
I spent the evening last night on my new lowbie tank running the Faultline story arcs with a couple of friends. Our group consisted of a tank, a scrapper, and a blaster. After two missions I started ramping up the difficulty settings because it was simply too easy.
CoX is different from other MMO's in that having the "Holy Trinity" isn't required. It's nice when you have it, but not absolutely essential. I think this one fact is what really confuses new players that have come from other MMO's.
Emps/Rads/Widows/whatever who expect the team to grind to a halt to huddle on them for a buff are lol.
Bonus points if it's a boobslider maxed character who has a macro about hugging or something.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Quote:
If I call for RA (which is rare, I normally just use it and catch most peeps), I usually call for RA on the baddies. I can't imagine not being close to my melee oriented teammates (not to mention my need to be near the enemy).
|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
I've seen empaths call out to gather for RA... mid combat. Which I guess means they want my tanker with capped aggro to suddenly stop punchvoking everything in the fight, run out of melee (cause the empath is usually far behind us), and let the 17 enemies get aggroed on someone else. Say the blaster for example who just launched a fireball?
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I feel like I should redirect this thread to my discussion of:
"You are under no obligation to save me."
It begins with a tale of an overeager, micromanaging prat of a "healer."
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
It's crazy, I know. My defenders who can heal usually end up right there in the thickest part of melee. And yet, sometimes I see a empath who hangs back by the blaster, only uses the single target heals on the melee guys, and calls out for us to gather on him/her for RA mid combat.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
If I call for RA (which is rare, I normally just use it and catch most peeps), I usually call for RA on the baddies. I can't imagine not being close to my melee oriented teammates (not to mention my need to be near the enemy).
|
I'm sorry, but if we're in the middle of battle and I'm a tanker, the LAST thing you want me to do is suddenly stop fighting. Especially when we got a fire blaster.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
The worst case I've seen was someone in one of my SGs (I'm a few over several servers) that was a Plant/Emp that was a "pure healer" that took the Spirit Tree who said "I just concentrate on healing". I said "Oh you don't use Seeds?" "No". I then bit my tongue for collegiality. I didn't want to say the obvious "If you use Seeds, there would be no need for healing".
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I'm not anti-healer at all. I just get annoyed with people who think any other kind of defender is useless.
If you have a Dark Miasma defender (or corruptor even) on the team, chances are a healer would be completely redundant. The worst case I ran across: Empathy defender who took the Medicine pool, so he could have TWO rezzes. He didn't even HEAL people, he just let them die and rezzed them. I kicked that guy off the team, and I'm usually pretty patient with other people's playstyles. If all you're going to do is stand around until someone dies.....sorry, but you're useless. |
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
I agree that a healer is not needed. That being said, they are nice to have, especially if there is no one to buff. But, as i saw on here somewhere, Empathy only has three direct healing powers, the rest are a rez and buffs. So i think there's alot of misconceptions about empaths, that they're solely for healing, when, like most all the other def primaries/controller seconds they're buffers.
Tho I have 2 empaths, (Emp/Psy Def, and Mind/Emp Troller) it isnt for everyone. Buffing can be a tough gig for some and there are those who just can't do it no matter how simple it is. I mean, i was in some group with someone who was convinced that people who took empathy were wasting a character slot because healing was a useless tactic that you only used if you played bad enough that you died. So i've seen both love and hate for "healers" over the course of m career.
EDIT: The game was made painstakingly with all these many parts involved that the devs tested over and over. The game is meant to be able to be played anywhere from solo, to 8 controllers if we want. So we don't NEED a healer, it's just another part of a machine with interchangeable parts.
Or something.
Quote:
The 'healer' build I've usually seen is the following powers: Healing Aura, Heal Other, Absorb Pain, Rez. Aid Other, Aid Self, med pool rez, maybe if your lucky the two RA buffs, recall friend, too many travel powers, one required blast with nothing slotted...|
Originally Posted by DarchJester
I agree that a healer is not needed. That being said, they are nice to have, especially if there is no one to buff. But, as i saw on here somewhere, Empathy only has three direct healing powers, the rest are a rez and buffs. So i think there's alot of misconceptions about empaths, that they're solely for healing, when, like most all the other def primaries/controller seconds they're buffers.
|
So I say again, we don't need a Healer. We want a defender.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
Empaths are a tricky situation indeed. When you recruit one empath, you don't know if he's going to have HA on auto, fire off RAs precisely once inside the mission door, then go AFK, or if the whole team's heads will stay lit up like Christmas as they skate through +2s with ease. When you recruit two empaths, you don't know if the second is going to be redundant deadweight, or if the Empaths will AB each other and make purples cry and hand you XP on silver platters.|
Originally Posted by TygerTyger
I also got a tell from the leader, smugly noting the faceplants and telling me none of them would have happened if we'd had a "healer"...
|
Anyway, you're right to vent here rather than in-game. He's wrong. You know it. I know it. We all know it. Faceplants happen, even to the best of us on MoSTF runs.
That's why my empath has Vengeance on auto. You say faceplant, I say godmode.
My tag:
Level 25 Healer lft. (fire/regen scrapper)
@Mechaniker
Official Old Angry German Guy of CoV.
My Characters: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=247787
Quote:
Heres how I handle that.|
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
Empaths are a tricky situation indeed. When you recruit one empath, you don't know if he's going to have HA on auto, fire off RAs precisely once inside the mission door, then go AFK, or if the whole team's heads will stay lit up like Christmas as they skate through +2s with ease. When you recruit two empaths, you don't know if the second is going to be redundant deadweight, or if the Empaths will AB each other and make purples cry and hand you XP on silver platters.
|
Me: /t teh healzor, "do you buff n blast or only heal?"
teh healzor:, "I only healz"
Me: /t teh healzor, "ok thanks. glhf"
Me: /t Sir buff n' blast, "are you teh healzor?"
Sir buff n' blast, "lol, no, I got fort and CM and know what to do with them."
Me: /t Sir buff n' blast, "lvl X team runnin in X, wanna join?"
Invite sent.
That generally weeds out the undesirables.
But then again, Id almost always have any kinda defender over an empath.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
 |
Quote:
"Good luck. HIGH FIVE!"?
|
Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
glhf
|
good luck, have fun
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
|
Quote:
Hmmm...they'd likely hate my RAD then. And if I ever made an Empath, I'd probably play the same way.|
Originally Posted by Capa_Devans
In the past week, I've been told twice "I'd rather have anything BUT an Empath".
Having teamed with ones which don't announce that they're going to throw an aura out there, or ever Fortitude someone, I can see why.* * |
I never call out "Gather for AM" except for possibly right before an AV.
I just keep going and when AM is up, put myself in the best spot to tag as many people as possible with it.
So far, I haven't gotten any complaints.
But really..."Saying gather" to me is as bad as "Let's pull"
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
None of these debuffs are unique to Rad, and some sets are better at specific debuffs as well... nothing I know of can debuff tohit like a Dark/Dark defender for example while Sonic/Sonic is better at -resistance than any other debuffer.
Stack a team with a few debuffers of any type and, assuming even moderate player ability, you'll destroy nearly anything in the game. Debuffs outperform buffs in nearly any situation in the game... of course the ideal is to have both. Healing comes in a very distant last.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes