No, we don't "need a healer!"
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-04-01 05:33 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
I feel your pain. I still get skipped over on my sonic/sonic defender because I can't heal. Nevermind that the tank will probably be at capped resists to everything but psi and everything around him/her will melt like butter. And forget that everyone in the bubble will have decent mez protection. We gotta have our healz!!!!!
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That is kind of sad. People like what they can see. When they see one defender make a huge green number rise from their head they know they have been saved from the edge of the river styx. But a set like sonic isn't directly visual in its effectiveness.
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Going to add an e) to your list:|
Originally Posted by Fomsie
I come from playing a long line of MMOs where you did NEED a healer to succeed in team based activities, so I can see where people are coming from... only they can't seem to see the difference in CoX vs [insert MMO here].
As has been said, buffs/debuffs make a much bigger difference in this game than in most others. Also, individual characters have far more self survival tools at their disposal than in other games. I mean, if my DM/Regen scrapper -NEEDS- a heal, chances are: a) I did something stupid... hey, I'm a scrapper, you know you do it too! b) We bit off more than we can chew. (see "a") c) We have a poor group make up for the task at hand. (It happens) d) It is a very tough encounter. (TF AV fights/GMs, etc) Now, in situations "c" and "d", yes, a "healer" is a good thing to have. That said, someone who is just healing as if they were playing a priest in WoW, is failing to fully grasp their character's abilities... unless the team is really, really bad. All told though, I can see the frustration some have with all the "we need a healer" cries, but at the same time I think a lot of the "anti-healer" vitriol is unfounded. Healing, like any other aspect of the game, makes things go smoother. |
e) Team has decided to play way over normal such as +4 X 8.
Hey all things being equal most teams can handle just about anything when the forces you face are no higher than one level above you but this new leveling trend mean that everyone except the leader is looking at +5 targets. Times 8 pretty much guarantees you will be seeing lots of bosses so even the slightest mistake in strategy can have a team full of players in the red health wise.
I have played Emps, Thermals, Rads. Kins etc.. I've played EMP Trollers and Emp Defenders .. I learned a long time ago not to consider myself a H3al0r. My Defenders take, enhance and USE their attacks and by the time I reach higher levels I make sure CM and Fort have been slotted for quick recovery and maximum effect. I shake my head and wander away muttering to myself when I see players with names like I HEALZ U or Doctor Heals. No team "Needs" a healer but then again no team, with a few exceptions, needs a tank or a scrapper, etc. I have been on all Controller TFs/teams that cut through mob so fast it would make the nastiest scrapper alive jealous. All any team here needs is good players that know the game, know their job and know how to be a team player!
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I've rarely seen this request in this game, though it could just be the server/side I play in.
The only time I have seen a healer being requested is for stuff like the LRSF/STF where the need is more warranted, and even then peeps are ideally looking for a complete package of buffs/debuffs/heals when they try to recruit for them.
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I really don't want to get sucked further into this, but in the interested of clarifying, I'm going to repost the statement you made that prompted my response: |
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
First, I did not twist your meaning. You said that Fort does not really prevent damage.
I accept that you want to take that statement back and change it. I would if I said it. |
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| That is not a smart thing to say. Fortitude is a game changer. |
Do Cold Dom's shields completely protect a team? Not in my experience, and the Cold Dom shields can go on the whole team at the start of the mission, not 3 or 4 members of the team with a rolling start to add one new protected person every recharge period. Fortitude is a great power, but it does not protect a team to the point that nothing else is desired. This is materially relevant because it was said in reference to someone else's statement that Empathy "only has 3 powers that heal" and they'd rather "prevent damage than heal it." The statement about "preventing damage" was actually supposed to indicate the player would rather invite a Force Fielder or other character in place of an Empath, but I didn't infer that from the context of the original conversation.
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| Second, while not direct damage mitigation, Clear Mind will often prevent massive amounts of damage when used proactively. Finally, the offensive nature of the buffs in Fort, Recovery Aura, and Adrenalin Boost can also go a long way towards preventing damage, but are also not direct mitigation. |
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Oops. Yep, you're right.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Defense enhancement is schedule B, so it would be ~22.5% after enhancement, not ~30% (unless you're exploiting defense debuff HOs). Normal slotting plus Power Build Up would be ~37%. (~44% with debuff HOs and PBU)
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team lf scrappers and brutes
This has nothing to do with teh healors discussion, but I'm getting real tired of taking crap from team leaders while playing my BS/Shield scrapper.
I didn't aggro that mob. Someone else did and I pulled aggro off of them to save their bacon.
Why do I keep dying? Because all you've got is a pair of WP/ tankers for holding aggro and I'm still pulling those +4 mobs off of them as though they weren't running RTTC, attacking, and using Taunt.
That's two straight teams with WP tankers that, in my estimation as a long time tanker, are doing a fine job of tanking and yet I'm still grabbing all the aggro. I don't mind, that scrapper is tough. I'm just tired of hearing about it like there's something I can do to make Shields have a crappier taunt aura.
Time to go back to soloing.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
My thought about the whole "Sorry, but we need a healer." teams.
If they need a healer, then it's likely not a team I want to be on.
You should have said "You are a healer, pop some greens and heal thine self"
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
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Truth.
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Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
My thought about the whole "Sorry, but we need a healer." teams.
If they need a healer, then it's likely not a team I want to be on. |
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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Im on Freedom and Virtue.I see the Broadcast cry for Healer every time I login.|
Originally Posted by Tangler
I've rarely seen this request in this game, though it could just be the server/side I play in.
The only time I have seen a healer being requested is for stuff like the LRSF/STF where the need is more warranted, and even then peeps are ideally looking for a complete package of buffs/debuffs/heals when they try to recruit for them. |
Same goes for a cry for a Tank.Every time I login.
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You must hang out in atlas alot.
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Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Im on Freedom and Virtue.I see the Broadcast cry for Healer every time I login.
Same goes for a cry for a Tank.Every time I login. |
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Acctually, I try to stay away from Atlas like the plague.Its way to Laggy and way to much spamming for me.|
Originally Posted by Lucky
You must hang out in atlas alot.
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Iv seen it in all PvE zones iv been to.
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Also Steel, Talos, and PI. Not nearly as much in other zones but those four (including Atlas as you mentioned) it's an epidemic.
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Originally Posted by Lucky
You must hang out in atlas alot.
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"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
I've got Vengeance. That makes me a healer, right? 
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Truer words are seldom spoken there. Players like that can be counted on almost without fail to be poor players. Teams with that attitude are invariably bad teams. In all my time in game I've never seen a team that "needed a healer" be anything other than horrendous.|
Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
My thought about the whole "Sorry, but we need a healer." teams.
If they need a healer, then it's likely not a team I want to be on. |
If I'm forming a team I usually don't care a lot about what the team composition is outside of a very few cases (MoSTF, MoITF). In all cases though, even on an STF, I'll take absolutely anything in preference to a self-described "healer"; 9 times out of 10 anyone who describes themselves that way is a complete waste of time.
Give me a Rad or Dark or Sonic or Kinetic or Trick Arrow or Ice or FF... any of them are likely to contribute more to a team (past level 15 or so anyway) than an Emp. They're also MUCH more likely to be played by a good player. It's not that the Emp set's bad, it's just that so many Emp players are bad. It's unfortunate, but it's gotten to the point where the bad Emp players so outnumber the good ones that those few good ones have to prove they're worthwhile. Unless it's a player I know I'm always leery of an Emp... I know it's unfair but I still look at them as useless until proven competent.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Does in my book!|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I've got Vengeance. That makes me a healer, right?
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/i Fleeting Whisper
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
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yeeeeep. Done in none.
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Originally Posted by TygerTyger
OK, I know this issue has been done to death...
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My take:|
Originally Posted by TygerTyger
OK, I know this issue has been done to death... but c'mon people, you don't need a "healer" (if such a thing even exists in CoX) to have an effective team. I've been playing here for a while now, and this myth is still plaguing my playtime.
Last night, sent out a "((Level 10 blaster, looking for a team))" broadcast, and accepted an invite a second or two later. What I didn't think to check was the name of the invitee. It was the same fellow who'd been spamming a "need a healer" on his broadcast team call. I thought I'd give it a go anyway, as time was limited. We gathered (the six of us that were in the team) and waited at the entrance to the mission (radio mission). After the leader had us wait an additional five to ten minutes, repeatedly spamming his "need a healer", I finally broke down. Me: "Newsflash mate, we don't need a healer." Me: "A "healer" would be handy, but hardly necessary." Leader: "Hey newsboy, we do. Trust me, we'll all die without one." Me: "OK, who's ready to go, lets get in there." The team followed me in to the mission (a blend of scrappers and blasters with a tank) and we proceeded to demolish three missions in a row. Dings were heard everywhere. We did have a couple of folks faceplant, but that was mostly due to really bad playing (party got split and the two groups tried to take on large spawns... bad idea) and fun was had throughout the land. When I left after the third mission, I got three tells, all of which thanked me for telling the leader we didn't need a healer, and asking to friend me. I also got a tell from the leader, smugly noting the faceplants and telling me none of them would have happened if we'd had a "healer"... I had to log off before I gave him a piece of my mind (and there is very little of it left after all the pieces I have handed out previously!) but I couldn't believe this is still prevalent in this game. Where does this myth come from, that you "need" certain things in order to play? And why is it always a "healer" that people are looking for? I assume that means an Empath defender or controller, but why is that seen as so great? For the record, I have a Ill/Emp at level 40, and an Emp/NRG in the late 30s, so I do know the sets can be helpful.... but they are not the be all and end all of this bloody game! Grrr.... taking deep and meditative breaths now.... |
If you WANT a "healer" on your team, thats good... preventative measures are always smart.
If you NEED a "healer" on your team, that's bad... it means you're deliberately biting off more than you can chew. Turn the diff down!
It's 106 miles to Grandville, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing faceless helmets
... Hit it ...
... Hit it ...
My main hero is an empath defender and even I have to admit that no one NEEDS an empath.
I'll also admit that I play as one of those 'I heal and thats about it' types but I didnt have the power or enhancement slots to add any attacks after I took the powers I wanted.
At the same time, an empath is only viable as long as there aren't other defenders available, nothing beats damage prevention but if it isnt there, an empath is a great option.
No, you are right.
We do not absolutely need a Healer
We do not absolutely need a Tanker
We do not absolutely need a Scrapper
We do not absolutely need a .... etc.
Some people don't realize that with any reasonable AT mix, adjusting tactics can usually work well.
Enlighten them, ignore them, or don't team with them.
But we don't need to stir up another round of people who start coming here to campaign with over-exagerrated Rants of Anti-Healorz NerdRage.
A while back we had those threads started up every few days.
There were a vocal few who would violently shout about Healorz people all the time.
I had hoped we had mellowed and matured past that.
I guess a little tantrum every few months can be tolerated.
But I hope we can keep this mellow as it has been for a while.
Realize that,
We will occasionally run into people who still think they NEED a 'healer'.
We will occasionally run into people who HATE anyone they think of as a healers.
It is best just to ignore both extremes, and go our way without paying attention to them.
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ALL extremists must DIE!!!!!11!!1
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Originally Posted by stever
Realize that,
We will occasionally run into people who still think they NEED a 'healer'. We will occasionally run into people who HATE anyone they think of as a healers. It is best just to ignore both extremes, and go our way without paying attention to them. . |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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Originally Posted by Landrig
My main hero is an empath defender and even I have to admit that no one NEEDS an empath.
I'll also admit that I play as one of those 'I heal and thats about it' types but I didnt have the power or enhancement slots to add any attacks after I took the powers I wanted. At the same time, an empath is only viable as long as there aren't other defenders available, nothing beats damage prevention but if it isnt there, an empath is a great option. |
I play a lot of Defenders. My main (and the very first character I created) is a Kin/Arch and I love playing her on teams.
But I also have an Ill/Em Controller and I really enjoy playing her as well. It's not like they have a lot of attacks at their disposal, but then who needs them with 6 pets.
I usually 5 or 6-slot the AoE Heal, because I generally Hover in the thick of things anyway. The other powers that have 6-slot priority? Recovery and Regen, with AB and Fort on their tails.
It's all about the buffs, baby.
Keep the team juiced, and you don't have to worry so much about the heals.
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I don't enjoy playing any of my controller empaths for these reasons.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
My wife won't even play her Empath anymore, largely because of people like the leader of that team seems to be. She got tired of blasters running 4 rooms ahead of the team, then faceplanting and blaming her because he died. And she also tired of tanks thinking that her job was to use her powers on no one but them.
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Primarily I am playing a controller and had the team worked with the control effects they wouldn't need much of the empathy side.
As an empath defender however by the same token I had logged in to play a defender and not a blaster so I don't mind so much having to be support heavy but I do still dislike being on teams that will give then enemies everything they could possibly want from a bunch of newbs. It is nice to find time to blast AoEs.
As an empath I leveled up for quite a few levels with a tanker who was the only person I needed to worry about. If anyone was stupid he'd park his butt on the floor till they got the message and maybe even remove them.
I'd rather a Tank and a intelligent team than a bunch of miscreants who think I can heal through walls. With SOs fort can be comfortably on a minimum of 3 people, with those 3 people, aggro can be split up on them providing they have the highest threat rating. Other people through positioning won't really need healing. If you play tactfully empaths have more than enough and if you don't then they may not. Players that cause teams to predominantly look like heals are needed aren't great.
I do have what I call a pacifist build and a offender build on my empath and am happy playing either. I don't mind annoying people with my pacifist build because not all heroes should be killers so to speak or violent and it is to emphasize that. I also appreciate playing it on teams that aren't used to eachother until they are.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I feel your pain. I still get skipped over on my sonic/sonic defender because I can't heal. Nevermind that the tank will probably be at capped resists to everything but psi and everything around him/her will melt like butter. And forget that everyone in the bubble will have decent mez protection. We gotta have our healz!!!!!