No, we don't "need a healer!"
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-04-01 05:33 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I don't see this thread as "bashing" a certain AT, but more like a certain type of PLAYER.... y'know, the kind of player who only focuses on ONE aspect of their character. I think this complaint would stand true for ANY archetype.|
Originally Posted by OldSkoolNWA
...why start a movement to bash a character that alot of longtime players enjoy playing ??
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My main is Kin/Arch... and yeah, for the lower levels, she was mostly a heal-bot. But now that she's a bit higher, I'm using her other "stuff" more, and the heal less and less... FS, SP, BU/Aim, RoA, more pointy sticks, and Transference IF I see blue bars going down, and THEN heals... oh yeah, and cycles of sb/id whenever I can work them in.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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Great name, made my morning.
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Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
My AM message on my Rad/Sonic defender, Sound of Awesome.....
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I can understand that - except the title of the thread suggests a certain type of AT
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Originally Posted by Impish Kat
I don't see this thread as "bashing" a certain AT, but more like a certain type of PLAYER.... y'know, the kind of player who only focuses on ONE aspect of their character. I think this complaint would stand true for ANY archetype.
My main is Kin/Arch... and yeah, for the lower levels, she was mostly a heal-bot. But now that she's a bit higher, I'm using her other "stuff" more, and the heal less and less... FS, SP, BU/Aim, RoA, more pointy sticks, and Transference IF I see blue bars going down, and THEN heals... oh yeah, and cycles of sb/id whenever I can work them in. |
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The point is, there is no such thing as a "healer" AT... only "healer" PLAYERS.
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Originally Posted by OldSkoolNWA
I can understand that - except the title of the thread suggests a certain type of AT
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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Originally Posted by Impish Kat
I don't see this thread as "bashing" a certain AT, but more like a certain type of PLAYER.... y'know, the kind of player who only focuses on ONE aspect of their character. I think this complaint would stand true for ANY archetype.
My main is Kin/Arch... and yeah, for the lower levels, she was mostly a heal-bot. But now that she's a bit higher, I'm using her other "stuff" more, and the heal less and less... FS, SP, BU/Aim, RoA, more pointy sticks, and Transference IF I see blue bars going down, and THEN heals... oh yeah, and cycles of sb/id whenever I can work them in. |
So, What is wrong with people selecting an Empath/Secondary Defender, and mainly focusing on the Empathy set, and not getting anything for the secondary set?.
As your comment implys, That seems to be a problem? -- If people want to be a Pure Empath, or whatever else. It really is their decision, and they will still count towards a team.
How is that a bad thing?
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Highlighted the only part that I really agree with.|
Originally Posted by Newty
So, What is wrong with people selecting an Empath/Secondary Defender, and mainly focusing on the Empathy set, and not getting anything for the secondary set?.
As your comment implys, That seems to be a problem? -- If people want to be a Pure Empath, or whatever else. It really is their decision, and they will still count towards a team. How is that a bad thing? |
It is indeed a player's own decision to create the character that they want to play.
That is not the point.
The point is, a "healer" is not an AT, neither is a "healer" a necessity for a team... It's a basic premise of this game that a team can be comprised of any AT combination.
A PLAYER who wishes to specialize their character by only relying on one aspect of their powers is certainly within their rights to do so. However, said PLAYER should also be aware that by specializing their character in such a manner, they are also limiting their contribution to the team. Not saying the contribution is unacceptable, just that it is limited.
Now, some leaders won't mind the limitations of a specialized build, but many others will. Then there are those who think such specialized builds are a necessity for the team, and they are very much mistaken.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
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Similar to the response above, I have no issues with someone making a toon they find fun. I have no problems you making a character any way you want and you playing any way you want.
However, a person who doesn't attack is as useful to me as someone who stands at the door in a mission and does nothing. To me, a person who doesn't attack contributes nothing. I'll right click, edit note, type in the relevant information, and avoid teaming with such a person in the future.
I'm here to shoot stuff and blow stuff up. I team with people who are here to shoot stuff and blow stuff up. To me, blowing stuff up and shooting stuff is fun. I don't need nor want someone who doesn't attack nor do I find teaming with such a person fun. A player who doesn't have attacks is free to have their fun however they like while I have mine how I like it... which is not being teamed with them.
I encourage people who don't enjoy my playstyle to edit note on me and identify me as a person who likes different things. Further, you can type /gignore @Smurphy to ensure we don't team. No hard feelings. This game is all about the fun... and I'll be running at the bad guys guns blazin' and following the immortal words of Sister Flame: "push 1-2-3-4 until they are all defeated".
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Originally Posted by Impish Kat
Highlighted the only part that I really agree with.
It is indeed a player's own decision to create the character that they want to play. That is not the point. The point is, a "healer" is not an AT, neither is a "healer" a necessity for a team... It's a basic premise of this game that a team can be comprised of any AT combination. A PLAYER who wishes to specialize their character by only relying on one aspect of their powers is certainly within their rights to do so. However, said PLAYER should also be aware that by specializing their character in such a manner, they are also limiting their contribution to the team. Not saying the contribution is unacceptable, just that it is limited. Now, some leaders won't mind the limitations of a specialized build, but many others will. Then there are those who think such specialized builds are a necessity for the team, and they are very much mistaken. |
If it's within a right to make any type of character they choose, then why is their a thread complaining about the types of characters people make - and more importantly, why is it only one type of character being brought into question ??
Who cares if a certain characters contribution is limited ?? What right does anyone on this board have to determine what is or isnt a contributing character ?? If I missed a section where I am supposed to get approval on my character builds, please direct me to it.
One of the best things about this game is that each and every one of us can have a fully customizable character. A toon that we can design/dress/outfit any way we see fit. If a certain toon doesnt fit in with the dynamic of a team, then no one on this board is forced to team with them. But to start threads basically picking on a certain type of build, and thus certain players, is pure BS. I find it funny how whenever someone new posts on this board, that they are new to the game - everyone goes out of their way to welcome them, and tell them how great a game this is. Why is that ?? Do you people think that same person will still feel welcome if they spend 30+ minutes creating a toon that they are proud of, only to come on here and see threads basically calling it a waste ?? I guarantee that none of you "high and mighty know it alls" have the perfect toon or build.
Kat - please dont think I'm attacking you personally, it's just that you seem to be the only one who has tried to defend this thread.
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People have just as much of a right to b**ch & moan about the mistaken perceptions of what constitutes a "necessary" team composition, as those who decide to play the characters that (unfortunately) perpetuate and contribute to those misconceptions.|
Originally Posted by OldSkoolNWA
Kat - please dont think I'm attacking you personally, it's just that you seem to be the only one who has tried to defend this thread.
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Also, the only reason we are focused on this particular type of character is because that's what the thread is about.
But the argument holds true for any AT.
Go to the tank forums, and you'll find complaints about tanks that don't take attack powers... go to the 'troller forums and you'll find complaints about why they don't take support powers... etc.,.
Go to almost any AT forum, and you'll find arguments about how one "should" or "shouldn't" balance "such in such" kind of build.
Why?
Because, most folks realize that a well balanced build will contribute more to a team than a limited, specialized build.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
Actually a well balanced build will not always contribute to a better team.
Think of it in terms of sports - do the teams with all well rounded athletes win the championships ?? NO - you have a couple well rounded individuals complimented by a couple experts with a specific talents.
Besides - if everyone was well balanced, would there really be alot of individuality within the game ? Sure, everyone may look different - but they would all play exactly the same.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
But again, that's not really the point.
And frankly, I think I've belabored the point enough... It's just becoming tiresome and repetitive, now. Time to let someone else have the floor.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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Originally Posted by Smurphy
Similar to the response above, I have no issues with someone making a toon they find fun. I have no problems you making a character any way you want and you playing any way you want.
However, a person who doesn't attack is as useful to me as someone who stands at the door in a mission and does nothing. To me, a person who doesn't attack contributes nothing. I'll right click, edit note, type in the relevant information, and avoid teaming with such a person in the future. I'm here to shoot stuff and blow stuff up. I team with people who are here to shoot stuff and blow stuff up. To me, blowing stuff up and shooting stuff is fun. I don't need nor want someone who doesn't attack nor do I find teaming with such a person fun. A player who doesn't have attacks is free to have their fun however they like while I have mine how I like it... which is not being teamed with them. I encourage people who don't enjoy my playstyle to edit note on me and identify me as a person who likes different things. Further, you can type /gignore @Smurphy to ensure we don't team. No hard feelings. This game is all about the fun... and I'll be running at the bad guys guns blazin' and following the immortal words of Sister Flame: "push 1-2-3-4 until they are all defeated". |
I kinda disagree on that Smurphy, I myself am a "limited" (as kat would say) build. Ever since day one of me making this character she has been focused on Empath, and only Empathy. With only two attacks from Radiation Blast. Many may say that specialized builds are limiting your contribution. But in my eyes, Heals and Buffing are as equally contributive to a team then damage or holding/controlling/debuffing is.
Okay, they may not exactly be a necessity however they are contributive, just because you don't attack and blow stuff up doesnt make you not contributing. You are merely contributing in some other way.
I do kinda disagree, but meh. I won't hold it against you. It isn't in my nature to do so.
Neutronic Girl is only known for her empathy output, one of the notable empaths on the Union server within certain circles. Some of the points raised in this thread, I do disagree with. But heh, thats just opinions.
There are "notable healers"... **giggles**
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So people should invite you because you are a healer. Even though the powers that you mention that make you usefull on a TF are pool powers and your controller primary. So how does that make the healer part more usefull?
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Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
Jam I know WHY it was created I am just stating a trend I have seen on teams I have joined. They don't seem to care about Debt like people used to because patrol XP will eat it up anyway. True and I myself have gone to bed with debt knowing that by the time I relog it will have disappeared. All I am saying is why WASTE it eliminating debt when if NO ONE dies it lets you level faster? Its been mentioned here yeah no team needs a healer but having one, a GOOD one, is not a BAD thing and I have seen Global chat conversations on Virtue where they made it sound like Empathy was the WORST powerset imaginable and they would never take and EMP on any team they ran. lol The thought always runs through my head fine.. My Ill/Emp has Recall Friend and Superior Invisibilty have fun on that TF without a Stealther ... I'll be over here helping a team that does appreciate what I have to offer.
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You pay your monthly dues just like I do. So dont let me tell you how to have fun or play the game. |
Originally Posted by OldSkoolNWA
If it's within a right to make any type of character they choose, then why is their a thread complaining about the types of characters people make - and more importantly, why is it only one type of character being brought into question ??
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That said, the title of the thread is "No, we don't need a healer". And again there is no healer AT. This kinda jargon is bad for this game and encourages new players to play the stupid aura-spammin-waste-of-a-spot team members I dread.
I play empathy, and using CM along with fortitude GREATLY decreases the need for heals.
Ive gone whole play sessions not healing AT ALL.
The sets a buffing set, Its got 3 heals outta 9 powers.
If the thread was "No, we dont need an empath!", id say, emps are just as important as any other DEFENDER.
And as a side note. People are sayin they focus on the empathy primary and have 2 blasts. What pray tell are your other power choices if your not selecting blasts? Did you take the medicine pool so you can have 4 heals and 2 rezzes? Let me guess, you took stimulate as well. You know what CM is? Do you understand what it does?
/end rant.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Again, point me to the warrior class.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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So a MM with the personal attacks will contribute more than one that takes leadership to max out pets and ignores the personal attacks? (and no, you can't generalize demons to make this true for all MMs)|
Originally Posted by Impish Kat
Because, most folks realize that a well balanced build will contribute more to a team than a limited, specialized build.
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Saying "well rounded > single focus" is simplistic. It ignores the cost in terms of lost power from generalizing and it ignores the fact that all ATs don't excel in all areas.
If people really believed that better balanced builds were universally better, there would be threads of complaint about tanks and scrappers who don't take Aid Other and leadership and anciliary holds - I mean, given your logic, if they don't take those abilities, they are specializing in damage/mitigation and ignoring support, buffing, and control.
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Actually before IO's healers where not needed in fact toons where more powerful than they are now, you realize regen at one time ran at something like 2000% recharge IH was a toggle and not a timed click if they died there was nothing a healer could do for them. Tanks running perma unstoppable once again usually if they died a heal would not have saved them because their was no agro cap and they had like 200 mobs around them. So since this game started healers have not been needed
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Originally Posted by LAST_RONIN
years and years ago healers were "needed" more often. People didn't have all those fun IOs and fancy builds. Also when the game population was 50% noobs who aggro'd everything in sight. Now most teams know what they are doing and in later lvls when the baddies get better at face-planting us, we all use IOs to make that less an issue. So healers are now overrated... but I still smile when my team has one.
One side note: When tanking from time to time a team will want me to herd. I love herding ,but it goes alot smoother if I get a few heals. Give me a kin and I'll heard to the taunt cap anytime. |
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If everyone had the mind that they were responsible for their own health, life in CoX would be so much better.
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Note where the quotation marks are in the title of the thread: No, we don't "need a healer!"|
Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
That said, the title of the thread is "No, we don't need a healer".
If the thread was "No, we dont need an empath!", id say, emps are just as important as any other DEFENDER. |
This isn't a reaction to someone saying "Hi, I'm an empath. Can I join your team?" It's a response to someone complaining that "we need a healer to start the team". The response is No, we don't "need a healer". I would give the same response to someone saying "we need an empath to start the team". No, we don't "need an empath". I agree that empaths are as important as any other defender (or controller), and I'd welcome one who wanted to join my team. But we don't need one.
The point is, we don't need any specific AT or powerset, ever. Sure, a tanker or a defender or a controller or more damage might make certain teams better, but you never "need a ____."
No, we don't "need a healer!"
No, we don't "need a empath!"
No, we don't "need a kin!"
No, we don't "need a tank!"
No, we don't "need a rad!"
[SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow][U]Virtue Heroes (Serenity's Children):[/U] [B]@Eek a Mouse, The Devil's Mark, Outlaw Sniper, Gas-Soaked Rag Man, Amazon Prime, Friday's Child, Hot Blooded,[/B][B]Flower of the Moon[/B], [B]Rouge Demon Hunter[/B], Stimulated Emission, Animatronic Wench, [B]Lennie Small[/B]
[U]Virtue Villains (Serenity's Orphans):[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [B]Eek a Rat[/B], [B]Bomb Blondeshell[/B], Babe Brute, Jeanne Dark, Fallen Angle[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Whats your point?
Are you giving me hassles because I made a typo?
I've got bad vision (20/400) in each eye, maybe my contacts were dry and blurry and I didnt pay close enough attention.
And your making the same point as I am regardless.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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I didn't read Eek's post as an attack, JMS...
I saw it as using your quote as a support mechanism, then expounding upon it.
Because, as you say, Eek basically made the same point as you.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
If I took it wrong then my apologies.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Originally Posted by Eek a Mouse
Sure, a tanker or a defender or a controller or more damage might make certain teams better, but you never "need a ____."
No, we don't "need a healer!" No, we don't "need a empath!" No, we don't "need a kin!" No, we don't "need a tank!" No, we don't "need a rad!" |
Caveats:
If you're running Tanker Tuesday, you need a tank.
If you're running a Fire/Rad superteam, you need a Fire/Rad.
If you're a lowbie (sub-20) running around, unteamed, in PI/GV/the RWZ, you need a clue.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Please, tell me how you unlocked this "healer" AT. Is it a secret epic unlocked at lvl 60?
Next thing we know people are gonna start asking what the best "warrior" class is.
Now do you have anything else insightful to add, or have you received enough attention for today ??