Am I the ONLY one...

Also, when Garth Ennis was writing Punisher, he was absolutely in the John Woo mode, which was quite flashy and went over well.

I dunno.

I guess it wouldn't have been so... um... I don't think bad is the right word that I'm working for... I think the movie would have had a better impact if it's followup, UltraViolet, hadn't just been the same exact film... just with Milla Jovovich instead of a Christian Bale, doing the shooting and fighting.

As it stands, both of the movies are fairly skippable for any science-fiction fanatic. Outside of the gunplay / sword play, they never really do anything to set themselves further apart than from... say the Matrix Trilogy... aside from having worse acting... worse scripting... and really, with Keanu Reeves on board, the Matrix is entering that competition with the likes of a millstone around it's neck.

They brought some interesting combat ideas into the realms of film, but I think the original statement stands. If somebody hasn't seen them, they really haven't missed that much.

I think it would be pretty good if every powerset had an alternate animation set where applicable. That said I think it would be unfortunate if DP came out fresh with a second set of animations while other much more deserving sets could use a make over.

I recall BaB's talking about something similar to this with regard to the new spines sets. He said (to the effect of) he keeps them simple and generic so they can fit the largest number of concepts.

This argument is odd, because now you're not really judging Equilibrium on its own merits, but on the merits of a film that's been fairly universally panned - unlike Equilibrium.

Except the gun kata, which is pretty much gun fu taken to a pinnacle.

And I think Equilibrium is a better action movie than SF movie, and judging it as an SF movie I think obscures much of what it brings to the table.

But as DP and DS are the first new power sets since power customization was added, I think it's more likely that they've been planned with power customization in mind.

No. I'm judging both movies. and both have been universally panned.

In other words, it brings nothing to the table but gun/kata. I don't see how this is disproving my point that this isn't a movie people should go out of their way to see.

No. Equilibrium, while not getting the best overall reviews was most certainly not universally panned, just largely so (about 1/3 of the reviews were favorable). It's also been fairly well received by the general public (as far as can be determined by ratings on IMDB and other such websites). Ultraviolet on the other hand ... not so much.

I don't know if I'd exactly recommend Equilibrium to someone just at the drop of a hat. However I would certainly recommend it to a fan of the action genre (it's not really much of a sci-fi film truth be told). More specifically to hong kong and kung-fu action fans, as I think the overall style of the film draws from them to a certain extent.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SItM3OLqb5w -22 minutes in.

My issue with the Gun-Fu is that despite speculation to the contrary here, I don't see a way to do the attack-types using another method. i.e. the massive PBAoE. How can you do that without a spinning, crazy, frenzied animation for it?

Maybe they're fixing PVP...

(wait for it)...

Again!

I snipped up the original post down to the points I want to respond to.

I don't know if you're the ONLY person who wants a non-fancy handguns set, but I'd wager a bet you're in the minority. As you said yourself, plain animations are boring, and there are really only so many ways to shoot a gun before you start repeating the same animation over and over again. Trust me, I LOVE Broadsword as much as the next guy - it's my very most favourite set. But even I can tell you that it has redundant, boring attacks to a large extent. Unlike dual handguns, Broadsword sells on being direct and brutal, so simple, powerful strikes are its thing, but even then, there are only so many strikes you can make before you HAVE to improvise. We have 7 attack powers and only four primary directions we can attack in, so we end up repeating ourselves, such as Hack being the same thing as Head Splitter, only without a step forward.

Personally, I'd say the Mastermind handguns set is about the upper limit of what you can do with handguns before it becomes boring. Shoot one gun, shoot both guns, shoot both guns a lot. What else is there to add? Shoot one gun a lot? Shoot one gun very slowly? It becomes redundant and very, very uninteresting. Hell, look at Assault Rifle. It's about the most boring set we have in the game in terms of animations. Each attack is essentially "shoot the rifle." And even that isn't quite as boring as that, varying ammunitions a LOT between attacks. Personally, I'm glad dual handguns aren't made to be an Assault Rifle clone, with a few regular attacks and a bunch of custom ammo.

See, here's the thing - in almost any situation where open fighting is involved, handguns are always inferior to larger firearms in terms of power, but superior to them in terms of agility. There's no reason, thematically, to have a handgun set that's slow and uninteresting, because it's like a rifle set, only worse. The advantage of handguns is that it's easier to move around with them as one-handed weapons than it is to move around with a large two-handed omnigun. Hence, they are faster.

Personally, I find the new handgun set to be a LOT better than what I was expecting it to be. I expected, as you did, that they'd simply recycle the frankly not very impressive Mastermind attacks. Instead, they went with something a lot closer to how I played Advent Rising. Originally I started by relying on large weapons, like assault rifles and rocket launchers, but as the game progressed and I gained more and more supernatural powers (like slowing down time and jump flips to make Neo red with envy), I relied on weapons less and less, and the SLOOOOOWNESS with which larger weapons were drawn was becoming a problem. So, instead, I abandoned large weapons and instead went with pistols which were drawn almost instantly in any situation. And it was awesome!

Let me share one parting sentiment - I LOVE handguns more than any other weapon type exactly because they are so agile. But I like handguns not for their realism, but rather for the absurdity of what they can become in the hands of an imaginative artist. Advent Rising, again, has a few of note. Such as "90 calibre, armour-piercing concussive rounds" fired out of a handgun that can shoot about 9 rounds per SECOND and can be dual-wielded. Or a handgun powered by cold fusion which shoots raw energy and can shoot GRENADES and can, of course, be dual-wielded. Or the Seeker handgun, which can fire rounds that bounce between up to five targets each at the cost of five rounds per shot, shoot at about 4 rounds per second, hit like a train on each bounce AND be dual-wielded. I don't think I've seen a game where you could use nothing but handguns and sew so much carnage.

In fact, Advent Rising transformed my view of what dual handgun combat could be like. Before, my view of what it was like came from Devil May Cry and Oniblade (I should talk about gunblades at some point), which essentially had you shooting and shooting and shooting at an enemy until you brought it down, with damage inferior to your oversized sword. Essentially, it would be pop-pop-pop one down pop-pop-pop two down etc. In advent rising, it's more like bambambambambam 15 people down. I could literally squeeze the entire magazines of two handguns in less than a second and lay waste to an entire platoon. THAT is what I want my handgun fighter to be like. I loved Advent Rising for it, even if I had to save ammo a lot. Dive in via forward-flying corkscrew, unload two handguns into a platoon of aliens, land in a super-cool pose and reload both handguns by spinning them in your hands behind your back. It doesn't get more impressive than. It's like having an A10 Warthog strafe them, only it's one guy doing that.

THAT is what I want to see.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

They reload by doing the following in game...

"/em reloads"

Don't put in the quotes.

Really now, every other fantasy game avoid the reload animation. Do you really think CoH is any different?

To the OP, you never know...they could have dual animations for the pistol set.

"Universally panned?" Right... That obviously explains why Equilibrium has a 7.8 rating at IMDB.

Cone: Like the MM dual pistols cone.
PBAoE: Shoot a lot. While turning.

Really, this is the same problem I have with dual blades: the set is too flashy for some concepts. My DB Brute was supposed to be a hulking undead horror with two big ol' butcher knives, then I got into combat and found myself apparently piloting a ballerina who'd had too much coffee. Still, it's a bit early to complain, since we can hope there are alternate animations for the attacks and none of them except the nuke were that excessive. I'll agree that generally, it's best to make a character to match the animations, but the animations should probably try to accomodate concepts that are likely to want to use those powersets, like villainous gangsters.

Too early to complain, you say? Hmm...

Dual Pistols is a powerset that, from my perspective, fills in the role of a flashy gunslinger/gunkata artist. It's not there to represent a serious, reserved soldier or curt mercenary who just happens to be using two handguns instead of a rifle. As such, making it anything BUT flashy does a disservice to the kinds of concepts which most call for a set like this.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I'd really love it if the doves thing was left in as a one-in-a-million chance to fire Easter Egg in the Live version. I mean who wouldn't love it if just suddenly, you hit your T9 and bang! Doves! It'd be a great little surprise, and they already have the assets done.

Nono. In order to really be true to the spirit of the Easter Egg, they'd have to add in a whole new animation when it fired off. Basically it'd have your character leaping sideways in excruciatingly slow-mo while firing off both of their pistols rapid-fire like at their opponents while the flock of doves appears around them.

I mean really

Only if I can color the damn doves to fit my outfit. Otherwise, forget it

Equilibrium is the movie that always sticks to my mind when thinking about that power set

I personally cant WAIT for DP's to go live, that video really did sell the whole thing to me! The only thing im thinking about is what do i combine it with?

PISTOL NUKE!!! might become even more awesome with boost range!

oooooo a DP/EM blaster with capped +ranged def sounds a great fit! *drools*

I don't believe that boost range increases the radius of PBAoEs sadly.

As to your two options: So in other words boring as hell. I find the mm cone pistol to be completely unimaginative. So much so I didn't taken any attacks on my thugs mastermind. (not that masterminds need it lol). And if one is doing an attack that hits everything with pistols i would expect it to be fast, not slow turning, or my next questions is "why the **** don't the super powered mobs (cause we don't only fight gangsters in this game) take his *** out while he's slow turning like that."

With all that said I think alternate animations for DP (at GR launch) and DB (later on) would be nice, and should be in for those that want completely boring animations, or to make their more civilized dual pistol characters.

I also find it funny that folks mention James Bond as dual pistoler. LOL what? He's more like I'm shooting your *** with 1 gun, as "I'm that badass".

That's probably because Equilibrium (and its sequel, but what is the ever) is the only movie which actually has characters do something with their pistols above just shooting them from a stationary or running position. The science behind the movie is total crap, of course, but so what? It's not about science, it's about people shooting each other dead and looking cool doing it

I did a little look at other games and movies which featured dual pistols, and I have to say that, yes, all of them focus mostly on just shooting the things Lara Croft style. Devil May Cry has a few interesting attacks with them, but for the most part, it' still just shooting guns. Oniblade has those super-awesome gublades which are a sort of double-barelled revolver with a huge blade in the middle, but the few pistol attacks are essentially shoot, shoot faster, shoot exploding bullets, shoot bullets in a cone, shoot bullets that ricochet, all done from the same standing pose. Advent Rising has some of gaming's most impressive guns which, combined with the game's system of acrobatics, end up being used on the move in a BIG way, yet still in what is essentially a point-and-shoot way. Still, shooting at your enemies while corkscrewing through the air is cooler than most other applications. Max Payne has his trusty dual Beretas, but this is probably the worst incarnation of dual handguns I've seen, because it doesn't look good and doesn't work with Max's style of dives and slow motion. On the other hand, the special reload mechanic in Max Payne 2's bullet mode makes them well worth it.

Giant paragraph over and to recap - most movies and games that have characters use dual pistols have them do, essentially, one thing with them - point and shoot. If you're going to make a full powerset with at least 7 attacks, you're going to need something more than just that. Enter Equilibrium, and whether or not the movie was good, the gunplay was creative.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.