Why do HEATs feel like fail?
By
Afterimage,
Posted on: 2009-10-10 13:43 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
*grabbing popcorn*
Just because it is an unlockable archetype means that it is instantly better than any of the five classic Heroic ATs. Some ATs don't suit all playstyles. I personally don't care for blasters or controllers, but love scrappers and defenders. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they are terrible.
Also, there are tons of people who love their HEATs. I would rather play my PB than a troller, but that isn't saying that one is better than the other.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
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I... don't think it's just you. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Now, I'm not saying 'OMG HEATs suck'. A lot of people seem to swear by Tri-form Warshades, and a number of people obviously enjoy playing them.
This is more a question to see if I'm doing anything majorly 'wrong', or wether they get a whole new meaning of 'awesome' at a certain specific point. Tried both PB and WS to around 20s, got a lil' PB at 19 right now. Just...I don't know what it is. The endurance costs dont seem to help but, then again, no Stamina yet. The damage taken seems extreme, but then this is on DOs. Anyone else feel burnout come along very quickly on PBs and/or WSs? |
As I understand the history of the game the Hero Epic Archtypes were the Challenge Classes. They were meant to be played by veteran players who had experienced the game. Thus, they got travel powers at level 1. They got stronger defensive forms, and more accurate blasting forms. They covered a wider-range of play-styles...
At the same time, they also got mission challenges such as ambushes. They also got Sapper class and Ring Mistress Class enemies at level 1 in the form of Voids and Quantums.
Over time that Challenge aspect has been lost. Quants and Void's can still kill a Kheldian, but they no longer generate the utter horror that they used to. A lot of players also think of Epic AT's as being Better AT's. So, they approach Hero AT's expecting to find an easy mode of gameplay...
When the Developers made the Villain Epic Archtypes... the sense was further lost. Villain's don't get exclusive and dangerous enemies. They don't get the challenges at low levels that Hero's get. Their power sets are also better balanced to be more All-Rounders.
I think the best way I can describe it is this way: Hero Epic AT's are goal-less.
When you play a tank, you're job is to take damage and control aggro.
When you play a scrapper, you're job is to get in melee range and land as much DPS as possible.
When you play a blaster, you're job is to hang on the edges of battle and blast, and take out run-aways or things that get too close.
When you play a Villain AT, you have very clear points at what you choose what you are going to be. Are you going to be a soldier? Are you going to be a Crab? Are you going to be a Night Widow? Are you going to be a Fortunanta? Once you've selected what you are going to be, you only get powers for what you chose to be.
On the Hero Challenge AT's... if you've decided to go Tank and work on damage resistances / defense... you'll still be able to pick up ranged powers and status effects or low control. There's never a really clear point to what you're going to be.
A lot of people swear by WarShades because of one common goal. Being able to Perma the Eclipse power. With that goal in mind, it's easy to figure out what to slot to make a WarShade work.
Peacebringers... well. They really don't have a killer power to aim at. There's no central I want to do that that I've ever come across.
That loss of perspective, that loss of a clear goal for the class... I think is what causes a lot of burnout. It's why my own PB has stalled at 39 for literal years. I just can't ever decide "what" I'm going to do with her.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Now, I'm not saying 'OMG HEATs suck'.
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Then I'll do it for you-
OMG HEATs suck!
=P
'suck' in this context meaning I find them tedious to play and painfully inferior to VEATs using the Fun/Not Fun Meter.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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With your build info and some explanations of tactics, plus whether / how you use binds, you could probably get some suggestions pretty quickly.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Now, I'm not saying 'OMG HEATs suck'. A lot of people seem to swear by Tri-form Warshades, and a number of people obviously enjoy playing them.
This is more a question to see if I'm doing anything majorly 'wrong', or wether they get a whole new meaning of 'awesome' at a certain specific point. Tried both PB and WS to around 20s, got a lil' PB at 19 right now. Just...I don't know what it is. The endurance costs dont seem to help but, then again, no Stamina yet. The damage taken seems extreme, but then this is on DOs. Anyone else feel burnout come along very quickly on PBs and/or WSs? |
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I don't know about you, but my PB's +end power (I forget what it's called just now) and slotting IOs to up my recovery rate fixed all my HEAT end woes and then some, with no Stamina. As for squishability - at least I think that's your other complaint - Dwarf form does wonders to clear that up; my PB plays backup Tanker all the time. He's 47 now, and I'm just waiting for Halloween to come around to get him his last costume slot before I get him to 50. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Now, I'm not saying 'OMG HEATs suck'. A lot of people seem to swear by Tri-form Warshades, and a number of people obviously enjoy playing them.
This is more a question to see if I'm doing anything majorly 'wrong', or wether they get a whole new meaning of 'awesome' at a certain specific point. Tried both PB and WS to around 20s, got a lil' PB at 19 right now. Just...I don't know what it is. The endurance costs dont seem to help but, then again, no Stamina yet. The damage taken seems extreme, but then this is on DOs. Anyone else feel burnout come along very quickly on PBs and/or WSs? |
Maybe the AT just isn't for you?
Storm Summoning is great because it makes you better than everyone else in the game. - Camma
Knockback is mitigation. It won't be removed just because meleers ***** and moan. - Chaos Creator
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From what I have gathered from the powers available to the PBs and WSs, the PBs seem to be more of the scrapper/Defender hybrid (human form, that is) while the WSs are more the Controller/Blaster hybrid. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Now, I'm not saying 'OMG HEATs suck'. A lot of people seem to swear by Tri-form Warshades, and a number of people obviously enjoy playing them.
This is more a question to see if I'm doing anything majorly 'wrong', or wether they get a whole new meaning of 'awesome' at a certain specific point. Tried both PB and WS to around 20s, got a lil' PB at 19 right now. Just...I don't know what it is. The endurance costs dont seem to help but, then again, no Stamina yet. The damage taken seems extreme, but then this is on DOs. Anyone else feel burnout come along very quickly on PBs and/or WSs? |
That's just the way I see it.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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I've never taken a PB beyond 15, but my 50 WS is still among my favorites. WSs really need to be triforms, and they heavily benefit from macro use. I'll see if I can dig up the link to the guide I used to understand my WS.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Anyone else feel burnout come along very quickly on PBs and/or WSs?
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We'll always have Paragon.
Here's the PB build, see if I'm making any major screw ups.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Arkeela: Level 50 Natural Peacebringer
Primary Power Set: Luminous Blast
Secondary Power Set: Luminous Aura
Power Pool: Fitness
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gleaming Bolt
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (3) Accuracy IO
- (A) Resist Damage IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (3) Damage Increase IO
- (11) Accuracy IO
- (43) Accuracy IO
- (A) Resist Damage IO
- (5) Resist Damage IO
- (5) Endurance Reduction IO
- (11) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (7) Damage Increase IO
- (7) Accuracy IO
- (40) Accuracy IO
- (A) Healing IO
- (9) Healing IO
- (9) Healing IO
- (13) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (13) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Healing IO
- (15) Healing IO
- (15) Healing IO
- (A) Resist Damage IO
- (17) Resist Damage IO
- (17) Endurance Reduction IO
- (37) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Resist Damage IO
- (19) Resist Damage IO
- (19) Endurance Reduction IO
- (36) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
- (21) Endurance Modification IO
- (21) Endurance Modification IO
- (A) Healing IO
- (23) Healing IO
- (23) Recharge Reduction IO
- (37) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (25) Damage Increase IO
- (25) Accuracy IO
- (39) Accuracy IO
- (40) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Healing IO
- (27) Healing IO
- (27) Endurance Reduction IO
- (37) Endurance Reduction IO
- (46) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (29) Damage Increase IO
- (29) Accuracy IO
- (39) Accuracy IO
- (40) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (31) Damage Increase IO
- (31) Damage Increase IO
- (31) Accuracy IO
- (34) Accuracy IO
- (36) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (33) Damage Increase IO
- (33) Damage Increase IO
- (33) Accuracy IO
- (34) Recharge Reduction IO
- (34) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (36) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (39) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (42) Damage Increase IO
- (42) Damage Increase IO
- (42) Accuracy IO
- (43) Accuracy IO
- (43) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (45) Damage Increase IO
- (45) Damage Increase IO
- (45) Accuracy IO
- (46) Accuracy IO
- (46) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Disorient Duration IO
- (48) Disorient Duration IO
- (48) Accuracy IO
- (48) Accuracy IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 1: Energy Flight
- (A) Flight Speed IO
- (A) Flight Speed IO
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
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Well....I didn't like to say it, but...|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Then I'll do it for you-
OMG HEATs suck! =P 'suck' in this context meaning I find them tedious to play and painfully inferior to VEATs using the Fun/Not Fun Meter. |
VEATs, especially in pairs or more, do feel so...well...Epic?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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First screw up: Not taking either form toggle! 
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Click on the following link, sit down with a cup of tea, and read carefully through the best overall guide to khelds: |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Well....I didn't like to say it, but...
VEATs, especially in pairs or more, do feel so...well...Epic? |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=117828
Yeah, khelds mature late. Even later than tankers. Usually, once you get into your mid-30's, and start picking up enough slots to actually slot everything out, you start getting an inkling about exactly what people are talking about when they rave about khelds.
It actually took dual-builds for me to *get* my L31 PB. I have my primary build as a human-only blapper and franken-slotted to high heaven. He grew somewhat organically, so I took what seemed most effective to me at the time. He's *okay*, but not really special (though in some instances he DOES have his moments).
With my second build I went tri-form and basically ignored human-form. So I've got a beefy Nova and Dwarf. And he's SO much more playable. Even with just common IOs.
My human-only WS was similar. Outside of a team, it wasn't particularly effective. But around level 38, everything just kinda gelled and the next three levels flew by so fast it wasn't funny. I need to play it a bit carefully still, but give me a few more slots to play with and it's just going to be an absolute BEAST.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Looking through it... and this is mostly from my experience on a Human/Dwarf Bi-form PB:|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Here's the PB build, see if I'm making any major screw ups.
[SNIP] |
Glinting Eye OR Gleaming Bolt - Either-or, do not take both unless you're planning to proc out.
Melees - Picked up WAY too late. Those are your heavy hitters. You want them ASAP.
Over/Under-slottings - Things are semi-overslotted for minor things and semi-underslotted for important things: ACC? Every attack has -DEF. Once your hit once, you've started the cascade. Double up a couple, but all isn't necessary.
ENDRed? Shields are cheap. Take the 3 slots out and put them somewhere useful. Also move up Conserve Energy for END woe easing.
Rech? Pull second Rech from Restore Essence. Planning to die much?
Do Not Want - Glowing Touch? This should either be A) Removed entirely or B) Put in an out of the way spot. While doing a bit of healing is, yes, possible... it's not a very good heal nor is it something that you, as a Kheld, should be focusing on. You're a PB which means you're going to be a Blastscranker. Focus on your own mitigation and damage first and foremost. If you've got room later on, then dabble.
Forms - Simply put, Kheldians are for shapeshifting. One should acknowledge before getting too deep into it that if you don't take the forms, things will be more difficult. The forms help you fill gaps and take on new roles easier than a pure Human-form can. Can it be done? Sure, but it'll be a bit trickier.
If you're really set on having a Human-only PB, maybe try something like this?
Code:
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Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
I agree with Fleeting Whisper. Your first mistake (especially with the PB) is not taking the forms. Warshades can get away with it...somewhat. They play something like a Dark/Dark blapper if they do. Human-only PBs have problems blapping though. Your build is almost identical to how I'm loaded out on my human-form PB. And yes, at L20, it's painful.
Running a second PB and concentrating on Nova, is what convinced me to rework my higher-level human-only on the alt-build. I positively SAILED through the Hollows arcs. Nova works very well in the Frostfire arc and is GODLIKE for cave maps (staying out of Troll melee range at that level is a BIG plus, it's hover-blaster several levels early).
Work your alt build. Take Nova with a bunch of ToHit Buffs (later, slot it for EndMod too, it's fairly End-efficient, but in heavy fights extra End is ALWAYS nice). Three-slotted ToHit, combined with two-slotted Acc, while it doesn't guarantee you'll hit them, drastically cuts down on End wasted on MISS! MISS! MISS!
It's going to play differently from what you're playing now. But that's cool too. Try to 4-slot your nova powers. Acc, Acc, Dam, End/Rech at lower levels.
Once you're able to take Dwarf, do the same (save for stuff like the teleport power). Also, ignore the power pools unless you have NOTHING else to take. Your forms ignore them and you won't really have the slots for worrying about them until into your 40's, at which point you'd be better off with some judicious spending on your human-form baseline powers (like the heal). The only caveat would be IO mules.
Then, if you want to blast, flip to Nova. If you want to scrap/tank, flip to Dwarf. It takes a bit of getting used to and a bit of planning with your macros and trays, but once you do, it's completely natural.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Yeah, I tried both a PB and a WS before, who later got retconned and deleted. This gal I was aiming for a more human build...but hell, I can warp the concept to fit the forms in fairly easily.
Rush's build looks fairly sturdy...I just despise running out of end with a rather furious hatred. I am, I can safely say, fairly carp at any slightly off the wall slotting (3 damage, 2 acc, 1 end for most attacks)
The problems, again, come when I try triforming: Not enough damn slots!
If Frankenslotting (again something I've never tried) is fairly cheap, might be useful to know how all that works.
Thanks again for the help so far, guys.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Just tossing in my 2 inf, but this is more along my experience with my WS. I have the compounded problem that I leveled a VEAT before a HEAT, and blinded somewhat with certain expectations. |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
My human-only WS was similar. Outside of a team, it wasn't particularly effective. But around level 38, everything just kinda gelled and the next three levels flew by so fast it wasn't funny. I need to play it a bit carefully still, but give me a few more slots to play with and it's just going to be an absolute BEAST.
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However, once I got into later levels and in teams, I felt more comfortable with my WS. But that is still a problem because solo or teamed, my VEAT is just plain awesome to me, but my WS only feels that way teamed even though I can solo very well. No hard data, just a perception problem I guess.
Alright, thanks to Shoe for linking to the guide. A tad old, but the advice still seems sound enough.
Heres the mk...4, I think now?
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Arkeela: Level 50 Natural Peacebringer
Primary Power Set: Luminous Blast
Secondary Power Set: Luminous Aura
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Glinting Eye
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (A) Resist Damage IO
- (A) Resist Damage IO
- (3) Resist Damage IO
- (3) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (5) Damage Increase IO
- (5) Accuracy IO
- (A) To Hit Buff IO
- (A) Healing IO
- (9) Recharge Reduction IO
- (9) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (11) Damage Increase IO
- (37) Damage Increase IO
- (48) Accuracy IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (13) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Healing IO
- (17) Healing IO
- (17) Healing IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (19) Damage Increase IO
- (19) Damage Increase IO
- (39) Accuracy IO
- (40) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Resist Damage IO
- (21) Resist Damage IO
- (21) Resist Damage IO
- (46) Endurance Modification IO
- (46) Endurance Modification IO
- (46) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
- (23) Endurance Modification IO
- (23) Endurance Modification IO
- (A) Healing IO
- (25) Healing IO
- (37) Healing IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (27) Damage Increase IO
- (27) Damage Increase IO
- (48) Accuracy IO
- (50) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (29) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Healing IO
- (31) Healing IO
- (31) Healing IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (33) Damage Increase IO
- (33) Damage Increase IO
- (33) Accuracy IO
- (34) Recharge Reduction IO
- (34) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (39) Recharge Reduction IO
- (39) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (42) Damage Increase IO
- (42) Damage Increase IO
- (42) Accuracy IO
- (43) Recharge Reduction IO
- (43) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (45) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Resist Damage IO
- (48) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Resist Damage IO
- (50) Endurance Reduction IO
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 1: Energy Flight
- (A) Flight Speed IO
- (A) Flight Speed IO
Level 6: Bright Nova Bolt
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (13) Damage Increase IO
- (37) Damage Increase IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (11) Damage Increase IO
- (36) Damage Increase IO
- (36) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (7) Damage Increase IO
- (15) Damage Increase IO
- (31) Accuracy IO
- (36) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Damage Increase IO
- (7) Damage Increase IO
- (15) Damage Increase IO
- (34) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (25) Damage Increase IO
- (40) Damage Increase IO
- (45) Damage Increase IO
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (29) Damage Increase IO
- (40) Damage Increase IO
- (43) Damage Increase IO
- (45) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Healing IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Taunt Duration IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'm going to jump on this before the rest of the Kheldian Forumites swarm:
Building a human form is definately a lot harder than a tri-form.
This doesn't mean it's impossible; nor does it mean that your human form will be weaker, but it takes a lot of experience to build a human form well, you're better off making a tri-former first, but this may not be your playstyle. If that's the case then continue with the human form but it will be more tricky.
Most of my experience comes from my level 50 TriFormShade, so I may be lacking experience referring to Peacebringers.
A couple of good ways to get around the slot squeeze on a tri-form are:
Avoid slotting up the redundant Human form powers too much, these powers are generally the ranged blast powers, Nova gives superior clones for the blast powers that have the inherent (from Nova) to hit bonus, 45% damage bonus AND a much higher damage multiplier of 1 (equal to blasters) compared to the human form ranged attack multiplier of .65 IIRC (Equal to defenders).
Franken-slotting is great, but at the higher levels not really needed if you followed the piece of advice above, it consists of using different IO Sets to slot a power for exactly what you want (for example you could use a variety of sets to slot 4 Acc/End/Rech/Acc IOs, in an attack, which would give a substantial bonus to all of them). I personally don't frankenslot much on my TriFormShade, prefering to use sets to get recharge bonuses needed for perma-eclipse, perma-hasten, Stacking Black Dwarf Mire and near perma Sunless Mire and Triple Fluffies (
). The only powers I frankenslot are Eclipse (4x Resistance/Recharge IOs) and Unchain Essence (Which I only frankenslotted because all the useful bonuses I could have gotten from it were maxed out).
With any Kheldian with forms you're never going to be as good a tanker in Dwarf mode as a Tanker, nor as good a Blaster in Nova as a real Blaster, so if you want to achieve higher than these ATs you have to Dance! Dancing involves shifting forms as the battle calls for it, maximizing your potential by utilizing all of your powers. Dancing becomes a whole lot easier when you have macros set up to switch form and switch trays.
A typical tactic for a Warshade if they're getting overwhelmed is to hit off Sunless Mire, switch to Dwarf and hit off Black Dwarf Mire (or vice versa), then drop back to Human and use Quasar or Unchain Essence, or both (if using Unchain Essence then it is wise to kill an enemy in Dwarf beforehand to avoid spending excess time vunerable in human form), then all you need to do is pop a small blue, use Stygian Circle off the bodies of your enemies and you're back at full health and endurance (Most of the time). This eliminates most of the enemies, the rest can easily be picked off in Nova, and you're completely recharged and ready for round 2.
When it comes to triforming it all becomes about the Dance, although Warshades dance better than Peacebringers (generally) due to their longer lasting click powers such as Eclipse vs Lightform (which incidentaly can't carry over into forms as I understand it, where as Eclipse can) and Sunless Mire vs Build Up (Sunless Mire lasts for 30 Seconds and Build Up lasts for 10).
There was a thread on the Kheldians forums a while ago discussing why Kheldians get a worse rap than any other ATs, and a conclusion was not because people were ignorant (Although this was part of it ), but rather the fact that there is no Ultimate Build for either a Warshade or a Peacebringer, they show so much versatility, cater for so many different playstyles and have such a wide scope of powers that it would be impossible for any single person to find an ultimate build for them.
I hope this has been informative and I'm sure my fellow "LOLKhelds" will be here soon to supply some different points of view.
PS. I heavily advise checking out Plasma's Ultimate Guide to Kheldians (It's linked earlier in this thread) as it's got great info and it's still very relevant, There is also The Dancing Warshade - A Guide to Tri-form Combat which is one of my favourites.
I'm glad you found and read through Plasma's guide. The real purpose of my suggestion was all about enjoying a cup of tea, and if you learned more about khelds that was just a bonus.
I believe dwarf taunt needs a "to hit" check, unlike a tank, and if my memory is correct on that point you'll probably want to check out the taunt set IOs that offer acc / taunt, for example. Those particular IOs were dirt cheap the last time I checked because most characters with a taunt power don't need accuracy. Also, you'll probably need some taunt duration to allow you to hold aggro reasonably well (you have no gauntlet ability, so you'll need to work harder than most tanks if you want to hold aggro).
Others will chip in with their suggestions, as well.
To second what another player is saying, human-only is more challenging, but still viable. I'm currently playing a human-only PB and shade. Both are fun to play, although I do enjoy my shade more than the PB.
My human-only shade is essentially a "stalkinator" (dominator + stalker), with shadow cloak, inky aspect, and his two shields (S/L & E/NE) always running. Inky keeps minions mostly passive and tougher mobs receive some "gravity well" love after my human-only shade sneaks up on them. Mezzers receive priority, of course. If a boss is about, then gravitic emanation starts the battle and inky aspect finishes up stunning the boss. The pets usually start firing right about the time that my shade is making contact with mobs. I have provoke to take attention away from the pets, when they get too much of it (or to off-tank, once I have eclipse and slot it up). I move on to the next battle after replenishing pets and refilling life and end with stygian (when needed). This is my only shade with stamina, to keep up with the heavy end usage. Stygian is also four-slotted for mid-battle and end-of-battle usage, with a mixture of multi-purpose set IOs that provide an end discount, +end mod, +heal, and +recharge.
Aye, Mercs, I did have my old PB and WS at triform level, and dancing did seem to work...I mainly deleted them out of retcon and not particularly liking how I had built them.
Plasma's guide was what I used to make the second build posted here which, respecs permitting, I should be trying out soon.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'll second this thread. I got my Warshade up to 22 with the expectation that I might start to suck slightly less with Stygian Circle, but I think I actually started to suck more by that point. Put him on the shelf and haven't played him since. Such a shame...
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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To me personally, VEATs are boring and HEATs are exciting. HEATs are even more exciting in an all HEAT team because depending on the enemy we're fighting, we're doomed to miserably/epically fail if/when we forget to actually employ tactics and play together as a team.
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Well....I didn't like to say it, but...
VEATs, especially in pairs or more, do feel so...well...Epic?
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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You need to "casually slot them with PVP and Purple IOs."
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Why do HEATs feel like fail?
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The Bacon Compels You.
One addendum for slotting a tri-form. You're going to have a LOT of powers, and you will have a much harder time if you try to spread out your slots among all those powers. Make priorities and go from there.
Personally, Nova form makes the early levels way easy. It's similar to a Blaster, and Blasters have a real easy time at those levels as well. So when you pick up Nova at level 6, focus on the four powers you get there (and you don't even have to fully slot everything... I heavily slotted the two AOEs and heavier ST attack, and went lighter with the weaker ST attack).
Then you get Dwarf at level 20. Slot that up well (you should be done or good enough with your Nova form at this point), as this is the point where it starts getting helpful to use Dwarf.
As you go, toss what slots you can into your important human powers. For PBs, these are your melee attacks and self-heals, for the most part. SOs will help, as they do with everyone. And if you go for IOs, getting +recovery helps plenty. My tri-form PB is at 39 and does not have Stamina: he has less issues than my tank for endurance as well (and I build my tanks well for endurance use).
As you go, you will get more and more versatile, which is what most Kheld players like, and what makes Khelds stand out. On my PB, I'm not pigeonholed into one AT setup: I can scrap, Blast, debuff, and Tank. I use binds to switch between forms easily and adapt to the situation as needed (often mid-fight. I can start out in Nova on a team, but if things go south with the Tanker, I can switch to Dwarf to help out there, all in a matter of seconds).
If anyone does go for an all human build, realize that you are, to some extent, gimping yourself. It's not as bad as a Mastermind with no pets or a Tank not running most of their shields, but it does weaken you from the versatility forms bring you. Even so, all human builds can do quite well soloing. I do know that it is easier to use Nova as you go up to higher levels if you're going to go all human, then respec out of it: just because you won't have all the tools needed to do well in only human form until later in your career (20s... maybe 32 at the highest).
For instance, I have a lowbie Warshade that I just started: he grabbed Nova at level 6, even though he's going to be a dual form Human/Dwarf Warshade. I just know that it will make things easier, and it already has. Getting him to level 6 wasn't hard, but I noticed a strong uptick in my speed once I grabbed Nova.
Just a little food for thought. Any AT takes good playing and planning to be effective, but you really need that with Khelds. They have a lot of tools, meaning you can do amazing if you use them well. If you try to spread yourself too thin, however... it's not so good. I think that's why some people think Kheldians aren't all that great: they only play them for a very little while, and they don't plan like they need to.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Now, I'm not saying 'OMG HEATs suck'. A lot of people seem to swear by Tri-form Warshades, and a number of people obviously enjoy playing them.
This is more a question to see if I'm doing anything majorly 'wrong', or wether they get a whole new meaning of 'awesome' at a certain specific point.
Tried both PB and WS to around 20s, got a lil' PB at 19 right now. Just...I don't know what it is. The endurance costs dont seem to help but, then again, no Stamina yet. The damage taken seems extreme, but then this is on DOs.
Anyone else feel burnout come along very quickly on PBs and/or WSs?