MMORPG.com Top 5 MMOs That Need Remakes = CoH bashing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted Toon So, what you're saying is that games that are over 5 years old should be on the remake list, unless they have 50 billion subscribers, regardless of how well they're actually doing (with the aforementioned exception)?

And that's what we call good business sense. Unless you've got even more money to pour into re-making your game, as Blizzard obviously does.

It shouldn't be that surprising, considering how negative people have been about the game on the CoH forums for years. Some changes didn't go over well and some people are still mad about the "purple" nerf, the addition of PvP, Enhancement Diversification, etc etc.

Why bash something you love? One person's treasure is another's trash. We don't all like the same things and you shouldn't expect that something you love is going to be loved by all. And thank goodness, I say. It makes the world a more interesting place full of more choices than I know what to do with.

What i got from the artical is, CoH is getting old, and ncsoft needs to start planing a sequal NOW if they want it ready in a few years, like the end of 2011 into 2012, when city will really be showing it age and up against some STIFF compatation.

And i agree. When this game is up agains DC online, Marvel online(maybe), and Champions (maybe, if it's still around) being the old dog on the block with dated graphics and a (more then likely) dwindleing comunity, then is not the time to start planing a sequeal. it's to late. do it now.

thats my take on the artical. and man of man, did reading about Asheron Call bring back a FLOOD of found memories... i had ALOT of fun in that old game.

Marvel Universe Online got canceled. That's why Champions Online was created at all. (Cryptic was making MUO, Microsoft was going to publish it until they realized there was no possibility of being a WoW-killer)

There are rumours that a new Marvel Online is getting made now.

i'm talking about the Gazillion Deal, which if i understand correctly, puts the marvel MMO back on the table. *shrug* At least that's what i've heard.

Slow leveling, slow combat. I guess you could say it has slow travel, but they've mitigated that a lot recently with the shift downward in level requirements to train riding. It's also pretty easy to get around if you get a hearth set in Shattrath or Dalaran (easy to do at any level, esp if you have warlock or mage guildies or friends), or if you are a mage.

How about this:

Why should WoW be on the "they need a remake list" (which WoW does kinda need) when they're already remaking their game for real?

Hell if Pong held WoW's numbers over 5 years there'd be no reason to remake that.

It's not remotely relevant to bring WoW's numbers into a discussion about CoX (and it's age). If WoW could only maintain CoX's numbers for example, it'd be shut down.

I blame the fact that they took so long to nerf psi-monks, so the game turned into Monk-ocron, more than I blame Dome of York, even with its ugly avatars. (But dear gods, do I miss Neocron City.)

I'm going to have to disagree here, with all due respect to your broader experience.

I installed WoW AND WAS "WoW"ed by the speech, cinematics and found it interesting...I levlled quickly but wow, when I got to 14 and I wasn't flying over everything or teleporting around everything there was a disconnect.

Also, my character couldn't solo 4ish even-con Bandits; I literally felt like a weakling. I couldn't solo 3-4 even con cave moles or whatever...this is a low level Night Elf Druid quest.

On top of that all the "paperwork" with spells, renewing armor...it was just too much:

I don't care about renewing armor
I don't care about right-clicking on every mob for loot

I just want to log in, fight about 16-20 mobs at a time, have stuff drop in my inventory and move on.
No doubt WoW is great and has fantastic mass appeal, but it lost me very early on.

Point 1: If the game is doing well, why remake it at all? Upgrade, yes. But remake all together?

Point 2: Refer to Point 1.

Point 3: My point was...again, refer to point 1.

If, as some people are reading into the article, the only reason the writer had really given for CoH needing a remake was because it was "old", regardless of how well it is doing, then why isn't WoW on the same list? Its about as old as CoH. Both are profitable.

If it ain't broke...

That is, of course, not taking bias into account.

Comparing WoW profitable and CoH profitable is just ludicrous. CoH and the other mmos aren't pulling in new players like WoW, so they need to remake/redo/whatever to get people back and be good. WoW also does upgrade the game with each expansion.

<point>
























<your head>


I think you missed the point...yet again.

Let me try this one more time.

CoH is "old"

WoW is "old"

Article, allegedly, reads as CoH needs a remake because it is "old".

No mention of profitability.

Now for the hard mathematical part.

If CoH="old" and WoW="old" and CoH="needs remake" Then WoW=|="needs remake"

I'm sorry, that does not compute. It is illogical.

Does that make things clearer to you?

A disconnect from what? That WoW wasn't like a superhero game?

Those weren't cave moles. I'm not sure what quest you're talking about, but I'm positive there's no cave moles anywhere in WoW. Most of the mobs you fight are a bit more consequential than that.

Incidentally, druids are a bit weak at low level, moreso than some other classes, at least until they start getting their other forms. Once you get cat, you find yourself significantly more powerful. Most classes actually have some kind of pivotal ability that makes life a lot easier - hunters get pets, warlocks get pets, etc. They usually get this stuff at level 10, 20 at the latest.

Well, no doubt! You were apparently expecting a superhero game and got a fairly traditionally designed fantasy game. This doesn't make WoW slow, but it means it's not appealing to you.

Also, much of what you did experience has either been streamlined or will be - like spells either will be changed to level up with you, or they'll be changed to do so in the near future.. Also, IME, more experienced players have an easier time handling multiple mobs than new players. Many people I know found their first characters to be the hardest.

Also also, whenever I play a kinetic, or an FF, or any buff-oriented powerset in CoH, I wish to god we had 30-minute buffs. 1-4 minutes is busywork and a nuisance. Given the choice between a spell that lasts 30 minutes and an FF bubble that lasts for four minutes, give me the spell any day.

What point are you trying to make? Yes, WoW is doing well. Yes, the WoW devs decided (correctly) that with all the improvements made in TBC and WotLK that the old world - the 1-60 zones - were showing their age. They chose to deal with this by redesgning the two continents and building areas that had been neglected from the start.

Because you should read this before whining at length about WoW not being called out for updating their game. The last major update to City of Heroes was in 2005. The last major update to World of Warcraft was 11 months ago. Further, the stuff that the writer said those games need to do (whether or not you or I or anyone else here agree that those games need to do these things), is stuff that Blizzard is already doing. Do you understand this, finally? Or are you biased?

Gazillion is behind not one, but two Marvel MMOs.

Superhero Squad, which will be more kid- / family-oriented, has been scheduled for 2010.

The Marvel MMO has been scheduled for 2011 by one of Marvel Entertainment's bigwigs (which I don't think is realistic, but anyway).

Also coming out will be a Ben 10 MMO - it might make some in-roads - as well as the DCUO.

It points out how are being deliberately obtuse.

CoH/V is "old" and has maybe over 100k players. Cryptic indicated that in the time they ran it CoH/V earned over US $100 million in revenue.

WoW is "old" and has over 11 million players and makes Blizzard over a US $1 billion dollars in revenue per year on around 40% operating profit (been a while since I looked at the figures though).

CoH/V potentially needs a remake to re-launch itself into the market. WoW IS the market as far as most players are concerned. Even if you were to look at only North America, WoW dominates CoH/V by potentially a factor of 20 (or more) in terms of player numbers.

CoH/V is getting a major expansion. WoW is getting a major expansion. On top of this, Blizzard is working on another MMO. Paragon Studios certainly should be.

He's getting your point. You introduced profit, btw, by pointing out that WoW and CoH are both profitable. When someone addresses your comment by saying that WoW's making an order of magnitude more profit than City of Heroes, when you respond as you do above, that's called "shifting the goalposts." He was responding to what you said in that case, not what the article says.

You're clearly not getting anyone else's. You're trying to shift the parameters of the discussion until WoW is exactly like City of Heroes, and that's a conversation that simply cannot be about the real world.

This is what's happening in the real world:

* City of Heroes went into maintenance mode after CoV's launch, and stayed there until NCSoft purchased it and hired the CoH dev team to make Paragon Studios. In the time since, CoH has had several content updates - nothing really major - two new VEATs, a few new powersets, powerset proliferation, Rikti War Zone, Cimerora, and Ouroboros. Additionally, CoH got the mission architect and powerset customization. None of this has changed the game - it's still fundamentally the same game it was four years ago. This isn't a bad thing - CoH is a good game, and a lot of the problems over the long term have been ironed out and mitigated. It's not perfect, but it is at least polished.

* City of Villains added paper (heroside radio) and mayhem (heroside safeguard) missions.

* World of Warcraft launched The Burning Crusade, which added multiple new zones, reinvented the endgame with heroic instances as well as new raids, and added two new races. Further, after TBC was launched, Blizzard released content updates to add the Black Temple and Sunwell Plateau. Blizzard also added daily quests to reduce the need for grinding to make gold to pay for raiding and other expenses. Blizzard also added flying mounts in TBC, which was a direct change from classic WoW, in which the only flight was between fixed flight points. TBC also added Outlands, which was a decent sized continent, with zone intended to take characters from 60-70. Blizzard also revamped one of their older zones, Dustwallow Marsh, to add new quest hubs (Alliance, Horde, and Neutral) to give players in their 30s-40s another option for questing,

* Last year, Blizzard launched Wrath of the Lich King, which added phasing to outdoor zones (the ability to have different players on different parts of a story arc to see the zone differently - one player might see a fort under siege, while another might see that same fort safely behind the battlefront). Blizzard also reinvented the endgame again, this time recalibrating their expectations to reduce the amount of consumables raiders needed, which also reduced the overall cost of raiding. They further made entry-level raiding more accessible, by doing away with key quest chains and simply allowing players to access the starting raid instances, and only requiring one player with a key in raids against Malygos, the only keyed raid. They've also added the concept of hard mode fights, in which you engage the boss in a particular way or take a particular action that makes the boss harder, but gives better loot. Blizzard again added a significant number of zones with full, complete quest chains to get characters from 70-80. Since Wrath was launched, Blizzard's had two major content updates and revamped a level 60 instance for level 80 (Onyxia's Lair) players.

* In Cataclysm, Blizzard is going to redesign the two classic continents - Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor - to make use of the new options and technology implemented in the first two expansions. One change will make it possible for players to use flying mounts in the old world - something that was simply not technically possible. Currently, Anyplace in Azeroth you can't typically see is pretty much unfinished and untextured, and the flight paths are designed to keep you away from those locations. Also, despite the way the zones appear on a map, that's not exactly how they're constructed. Apparently, it's easier to describe them as stacked on top of one another. They're doing away with all of that, and presenting a finished, fully refurbished old world, which will also have content designed for level 78-85, add two more races with starting zones for them, and incorporating phasing through the old world, enabling a greater amount of flexibility in designing zones (when you fight off the bandits, they won't necessarily be there anymore).

So to answer your question, not putting WoW on that list doesn't say whether or not it needs a remake. The devs themselves have said that WoW needs a makeover, and they're working on it right now. Why should any site call WoW out for showing its age when Blizzard's said "Yeah, WoW's showing its age. We're doing this and this and this to fix that problem." Do you understand now?

Unfortunately, most of them seem to have gone to Aion. It's a great game, but the people on it drive me nuts to the point of cancelling. I hope WoW stay current for a long time, just to keep those players out of other games.

I read the article the same way. I really like this game, but it's getting pretty long in the tooth. the toons have low polygon counts, the lighhting effects are dated (I'd love to play in sewers that are actually dark), and the sounds are pretty weak.

I find gameplay (combat) a little slow and empty, when I come back to it from newer games. It feels like slow motion- it'd be great if the game engine had a throttle and the animations could be sped up.

I do feel super in this game though. Playing Aion alot, if 2 mobs aggro me, I'm pretty much dead or very close. I can't think of many games where I can take on a number of mobs except for here.

If they do remake this game, I hope they use the same game style. I hate how every MMO created now tries to be WoW with game play mechanics.