MMORPG.com Top 5 MMOs That Need Remakes = CoH bashing

Captain_Photon · 10-08-2009 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper

Except when you defeat Lord Recluse in the Destined One storyline, you're defeating him in a post-apocalyptic future, not in the present.

That actually makes it more pointless, not less.

The_Alt_oholic · 10-08-2009 02:55 PM

The writer is apparently just trying to bait CoH players. We have a pretty strong and active community. Having a lot of posts on their article makes it look like it is a good article to some. I think it was pretty uninformed and opinionated. There are lots of other games that don't get the kind of DEV love that this one does.

When anyone says "They need to make a Coh 2", I just have to laugh at the writer. What was CoV? It was CoH2, and it is now combined into the game. CoH:GR is going to be in beta soon. That will be CoH3. These writers are behind the curve. It seems to me that they don't even know that we get FREE Issue updates a couple of times a year that are often of the caliber of paid Expansion on other games.

Apparently the article writer doesn't understand that players post great ideas for this game in the forums every day and that the DEVs do get around to implementing some (if not many) of the suggestions that we post in the forums.

Dysmal · 10-08-2009 03:05 PM

As a former long term player who hasn't really felt much of a connection with CoH in the last year or so, I can see where the article is coming from.

Going Rogue, should address some of my concerns with the game, but I am expecting an equivalent level of content in that expansion as CoV had.

CoH has done a very good job of adding all kinds of new systems in the last two years. They've done an equally poor job of adding sufficient new experience* based content. By that I mean, developer created new zones, story arcs, trials, and taskforces.

*In the sense of something you experience by playing through, not necessarily anything that gives you XP points.

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BellaStrega · 10-08-2009 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon

The funny thing about phenomena in pop culture is that they often become and remain phenomena despite an almost complete lack of visible reasons why. Look at the Volkswagen Beetle. It wasn't a good car when it was launched and it never really got any better; by the time it went out of production it was the automotive equivalent of a tarpaper shack. But it was a phenomenon, so they kept making it. People wanted it, and even liked it when they had it, even if they were fully cognizant of what a heap of junk it was. Even today, people buy a new car that's also not very good just because it kind of, if you squint, looks like the old one a little.

And there you have World of Warcraft. Complete rubbish; sells like hotcakes anyway, even to people who are aware it's complete rubbish.

(Extending this metaphor a bit, City of Heroes is the Citroën SM. Interestingly quirky, built on fairly old technology but with a somewhat futuristic design that as many people find offputting as appealing. Doesn't sell nearly as well as the Beetle, but destined someday to be recognized wistfully as one of the classics.

)

I'm kind of tired of people proposing that anyone who plays WoW must really be fooling themselves into having fun - it's not rubbish, it's not a bad game. The people playing it are not deceiving ourselves. We're not having badwrongfun. You don't like it and you resent its success over your favorite game. Yay, we get it, can we move on now?

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Dysmal · 10-08-2009 03:38 PM

One more thing, reading comments on articles on any sort of news-site is never a good idea. Seriously.

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BellaStrega · 10-08-2009 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dysmal

One more thing, reading comments on articles on any sort of news-site is never a good idea. Seriously.

Someone else said this upthread, but it's true. Doing so can utterly wreck what faith in humanity you might have.

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Captain_Photon · 10-08-2009 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene

I'm kind of tired of people proposing that anyone who plays WoW must really be fooling themselves into having fun.

I didn't say that, even by analogy. What I said about the Beetle was that it sold well even to people who knew what crap it was, not only to people who knew what crap it was. It also sold to people who thought it was a great car. They weren't "fooling themselves"; they were wrong, but there's no law against that.

But no, seriously, you're right, the phrasing is a bit wrong. Beetles sold to people who knew they were junk, and also to people who knew they weren't. "Knowing" something like that isn't really an absolute, only something that can be measured proportionally. Taking the stance that people who know something different from what you know are wrong is just rhetoric, and should be evaluated as such, even - hell, especially - when I do it; but it's good for comic effect, if nothing else.

Schismatrix · 10-08-2009 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene

Someone else said this upthread, but it's true. Doing so can utterly wreck what faith in humanity you might have.

If anything it affirms my faith in humanity. Which actually gets shaken fairly often. i've become acquainted with too many people who are helpful and supportive of others and do stuff like volunteer at animal rescue and soup kitchens. Fortunately there are enough jerks out there that i don't lose all of my faith.

Anyway, i do hope Going Rogue includes an extensive revamp of the older game content in addition to the newer content. Not simply mixing in a few new tilesets and mechanics into the old missions, but an actual rewrite that updates and improves the old story arcs. Taking lessons learned and feedback given from both the old content and the newest shinies and using it to revamp the old stuff. If the old missions and story arcs could get the same sort of revamp that Faultline and the Hollows received i would be nearly ecstatic. (Well, at the least i would be very happy.)

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Forbin_Project · 10-08-2009 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon

Look at the Volkswagen Beetle. It wasn't a good car when it was launched and it never really got any better;

Yeah but the VW Bug was a really sweet ride.

Too soon?

RobertoLyon · 10-08-2009 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project

Yeah but the VW Bug was a really sweet ride.

Too soon?

Yeah, I think in the year 3976 it'd STILL be too soon for that kinda tasteless crap. "Like Mary Jo Kopechne, it's...."

Good lord, grow up.

Demobot · 10-08-2009 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertoLyon

Good lord, grow up.

That was published in 1973 in National Lampoon.

@Demobot

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Captain_Photon · 10-08-2009 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demobot

That was published in 1973 in National Lampoon.

Speaking of organizations that have always needed to be told, "Good lord, grow up."

BellaStrega · 10-08-2009 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schismatrix

If anything it affirms my faith in humanity. Which actually gets shaken fairly often. i've become acquainted with too many people who are helpful and supportive of others and do stuff like volunteer at animal rescue and soup kitchens. Fortunately there are enough jerks out there that i don't lose all of my faith.

Well, it is true that I expect people in general to:

* Act like entitled schmucks
* If they don't experience something, deny that it's real
* Refuse to account for anything outside their experiences (overlaps with the above)
* "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die." - Mel Brooks

Quote:

Anyway, i do hope Going Rogue includes an extensive revamp of the older game content in addition to the newer content. Not simply mixing in a few new tilesets and mechanics into the old missions, but an actual rewrite that updates and improves the old story arcs. Taking lessons learned and feedback given from both the old content and the newest shinies and using it to revamp the old stuff. If the old missions and story arcs could get the same sort of revamp that Faultline and the Hollows received i would be nearly ecstatic. (Well, at the least i would be very happy.)

This is something I've wanted to see for awhile now. As Nethergoat's been chronicling, the old content is showing its age. I'm also not sure how realistic it is.

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Fleeting Whisper · 10-08-2009 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon

That actually makes it more pointless, not less.

I didn't say defeating future-Recluse gave it a point, but it does give you a reason why he's still standing around... not... beaten up...

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

Deadedge · 10-08-2009 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper

I didn't say defeating future-Recluse gave it a point, but it does give you a reason why he's still standing around... not... beaten up...

Also, wasnt the point of that that he was even more powerful in the future than in the present and you kicked his future ***?

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Dysmal · 10-08-2009 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schismatrix

Anyway, i do hope Going Rogue includes an extensive revamp of the older game content in addition to the newer content. Not simply mixing in a few new tilesets and mechanics into the old missions, but an actual rewrite that updates and improves the old story arcs. Taking lessons learned and feedback given from both the old content and the newest shinies and using it to revamp the old stuff. If the old missions and story arcs could get the same sort of revamp that Faultline and the Hollows received i would be nearly ecstatic. (Well, at the least i would be very happy.)

This is something I've wanted to see for awhile now. As Nethergoat's been chronicling, the old content is showing its age. I'm also not sure how realistic it is.

During some of my absence from CoH, I've been playing LOTRO, and this is something they've done recently, going back and reworking their the starting areas and quests for the first chunk of the game. It made a big difference to how playable and engaging the game was for a new player IMO. I experienced both the original and new versions, and the new was vastly superior. Applying the lessons you've learned over years of running an MMO to your original work is a good idea IMO.

Its all a question of resources though, and I have a feeling that 95% of any resources for writing and editing missions will be tied with working on GR until it comes out.

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Razoras · 10-09-2009 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertoLyon

Yeah, I think in the year 3976 it'd STILL be too soon for that kinda tasteless crap. "Like Mary Jo Kopechne, it's...."

Good lord, grow up.

Says the dude freaking out over a harmless joke.

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stever · 10-09-2009 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james_joyce

I mean, the whole thing is an opinion piece - can you really level bias as a criticism against it?

Ummmm,
Well, Yes, of course.

If they gave a set of facts, well,
You just have to kinda sit there, and say,
"Well, There are some facts."

Really, you can only claim bias against opinions,
or when they pick and choose some facts in a way to form a biased opinion.

So yeah...
Opinion is pretty much the only thing you are able to charge bias against.

.

Dr_Mechano · 10-09-2009 12:35 AM

Hmm personally I reckon CoX could do with it's own kind of 'cataclysm' style storyline to shake things up. By that I mean something which really shakes up the entire enviroment (just as Cataclysm is reworking the original lands of Azeroth).

Lord Recluse and Statesman missing or presumed dead (nobody stays dead in comicbook land, lets face it), the Lord Recluse Strike Force and Statesman Taskforce moved to Oroborous (so they're still available just not directly ingame). Heroes are thrown into panic now that they're big hitter has gone. Storylines dealing with the 'search for Statesman'. The taskforce commander taskforces are reworked and additional new player content is opened up.

Meanwhile in the Isles it's complete chaos as the Arbiters have lost their power and the four different Patron factions are duking it out over who is going to be the boss of the Isles (with Dr Aeon trying to get one up on all of them like any good mad scientist, opening up a new Patron Pool). The four patrons are nolonger just there to unlock the Patron Power Pools but there to actually represent four warring factions (of course they'd nolonger be in the same room and the main tower in Grandville would be in ruins).

Villains would carve out some semblence of power all their own with Arachnos in dissary (alternate anti-Arachnos levelling path where the villain players are using the chaos to further their own ends) or they can try to keep the Isles in some semblence of order.

Along with this the timeline is advanced. Boomtown now has some semblence of rebuilding like Faultline with the further reaches of the Zone held by the 5th Column duking it out with the Council for example.

Just throwing ideas out there really, a lot of content would need to be reworked but that's the whole idea of a 'cataclysm' style expansion...

...probably more work than it's worth mind you...

JeetKuneDo · 10-09-2009 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon

The funny thing about phenomena in pop culture is that they often become and remain phenomena despite an almost complete lack of visible reasons why. Look at the Volkswagen Beetle. It wasn't a good car when it was launched and it never really got any better; by the time it went out of production it was the automotive equivalent of a tarpaper shack. But it was a phenomenon, so they kept making it. People wanted it, and even liked it when they had it, even if they were fully cognizant of what a heap of junk it was. Even today, people buy a new car that's also not very good just because it kind of, if you squint, looks like the old one a little.

And there you have World of Warcraft. Complete rubbish; sells like hotcakes anyway, even to people who are aware it's complete rubbish.

(Extending this metaphor a bit, City of Heroes is the Citroën SM. Interestingly quirky, built on fairly old technology but with a somewhat futuristic design that as many people find offputting as appealing. Doesn't sell nearly as well as the Beetle, but destined someday to be recognized wistfully as one of the classics.

)

First thing that popped into my head while reading this was Madonna. I continue to be befuddled by her popularity. Doesn't seem to be a lot there other than a gift for getting people to talk about her. (And leeching onto younger music stars to get some attention like last week's SNL.) At this point, she's become a "legend" and gets press for everything she does. ...Mission accomplished. (Guess who else is trying that route? Brittany Spears.)

I've spent quite a bit of time watching WoW over my brother's shoulder (he has now quit playing it). I just don't get the appeal. ...But then, I'm more of a super hero/sci fi kind of guy (though I love the LOTR trilogy) so I am probably the wrong demographic. That games just seems slow and the whole "Dungeons and Dragons" thing has sorta been done to death. It also seemed like your character was a bit on the generic side. Pretty easy to run into others that look just like you. (Like on South Park when Butters showed up looking exactly like Cartman...classic!

)

Silver Gale · 10-09-2009 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano

Heroes are thrown into panic now that they're big hitter has gone. Storylines dealing with the 'search for Statesman'.

You know, last time Statesman went MIA, nobody *noticed*. I think there's a lesson to be learned there.

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BellaStrega · 10-09-2009 04:20 AM

WoW is many things, but slow is not one of them.

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MunkiLord · 10-09-2009 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed

The main argument in the artical seems to be a sequel should be made because the game is 5 and half years old. Thats it.

Wonder why WoW isn't on the list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker

That is what we call Bias.

There is no way WoW should be on that list. With the population it is maintaining there is no good reason to remake it. You call it bias, I call it common sense.

Twisted Toon · 10-09-2009 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MunkiLord

There is no way WoW should be on that list. With the population it is maintaining there is no good reason to remake it. You call it bias, I call it common sense.

So, what you're saying is that games that are over 5 years old should be on the remake list, unless they have 50 billion subcribers, regardless of how well they're actually doing (with the aforementioned exception)?

There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

Fleeting Whisper · 10-09-2009 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene

WoW is many things, but slow is not one of them.

Slow in what sense?

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt