MMORPG.com Top 5 MMOs That Need Remakes = CoH bashing
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2009-10-07 17:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I find it doubtful that WoW changes into a completely new game with each expansion as well. More stuff added, level caps raised, yadda yadda, but at the end of the day, the main functionality of the game remains the same. Much like any other MMO.|
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
I mentioned Cimerora and Ouroboros, but Ouroboros is largely not new content so much as making old content accessible, and Cimerora is a fairly small amount of content. We don't have a lot of information about Going Rogue, least of all confirmation on how many zones will be added. I find it doubtful that it's going to remake City of Heroes.
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| It's possible, but the same computer I had in 2004 was capable of running WoW then and in 2008, when I finally replaced it. Heck, my computer was able to run WoW after ongoing motherboard degradation meant it wouldn't even attempt to run CoH any longer. |
Also, the group that put together CoH, to my knowledge, didn't really have prior game programming experience. I would be willing to bet that the current Devs are working on re-writting the poorly written code with better stuff and surgically inserting it in so the game runs more efficiently. In fact, I beleive that the Devs here are doing just that. That's part of how we managed Power Customization in the first place.
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| No, that was ThatNinja who pointed out that you totally failed to address their comparative profitability while trying to introduce profitability as a reason that CoX should be above criticism. |
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| I really wish you'd stop shifting the goalposts. It's okay to mention profitability to support your points, but not compare it as a counter? |
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| No one is saying that CoH needs to aim for WoW's subscriber numbers. |
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| And what exactly is your point about "greedy profit?" And you realize that common sense is used to justify all kinds of stupidity? |
Actually, logic taken to extemes is used to justify all kinds of stupidity, not common sense. many people confuse the two.
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True, I didn't try to say it was a completely new game.|
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
I find it doubtful that WoW changes into a completely new game with each expansion as well. More stuff added, level caps raised, yadda yadda, but at the end of the day, the main functionality of the game remains the same. Much like any other MMO.
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| In other words, you don't know if the requirements change from expansion to expansion? I do know, for a fact, that the requirements for CoH have gone up. The computer I had back in 2004 could still run the game today, at reduced graphics settings. That is a problem that MMOs will need to take into consideration with their updates. |
I also know that CoH's minimum requirements changed at CoV launch, and possibly a second time.
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| Also, the group that put together CoH, to my knowledge, didn't really have prior game programming experience. I would be willing to bet that the current Devs are working on re-writting the poorly written code with better stuff and surgically inserting it in so the game runs more efficiently. In fact, I beleive that the Devs here are doing just that. That's part of how we managed Power Customization in the first place. |
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| You are correct. However, you (and he) indirectly brought profits into the mix with your introduction of subscribers. You also seem to refuse to admit that WoW is an anonaly in that regard. |
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Originally Posted by Tycho of Penny Arcade, March 22, 2004
If this is World of Warcraft in its beta form, then we would do well to fear the hybrid super heroin they will ultimately unleash.
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| Actually, logic taken to extemes is used to justify all kinds of stupidity, not common sense. many people confuse the two. |
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Are you irritated with me yet?
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I just suck at resisting the impulse to write responses.
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This is one of the main reasons that PnP tabletop games are still my favorite.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Well, yes, but I can see their point all the same. Even at level 50 there's that sense that you're a strictly-B-list hero in the City of Heroes universe. That, to use the way of things in an established comic universe as a metaphor, you might have your own title, but the next time Geoff Johns writes a 12-issue megacrossover, you're gonna be one of those guys who dies in the big fight scene on page 17 of issue 3.
It gets a little annoying after a while, but sadly I think it's an inevitable part of the cost of doing business. Player characters can't be the superstars of an MMO's universe. The shared world and the need to keep the status quo immune to player input both ensure it. That puts the MMO model a bit at odds with what some people may be expecting from the superhero genre. |
Aside from being the only real role-playing games, you CAN be the center of the universe in a tabletop PnP, or at least your pocket of the universe.
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So, other than subscriber numbers, CoH and WoW aren't that different. Both have been upgraded and both are "old".|
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
True, I didn't try to say it was a completely new game.
I know that they added new graphics capabilities in the two expansions - in the first one, I could turn all my settings to the new maximum and still play. I don't know how the second one may have changed because I got a new computer shortly before Wrath. I also know that CoH's minimum requirements changed at CoV launch, and possibly a second time. Yes, this is also true. WoW's not an anomaly. Blizzard's games have typically been exceedingly popular. An anomaly in the sense of outdistancing every other MMO? Yeah, I'll grant that, but WoW's popularity was not a surprise: Common sense has no objective standing. It's like art, in the eye of the beholder. My niece makes claims about common sense that are clearly assertions that we should all be telepathic and clairvoyant, and possibly precognitive, when someone does something that makes her mad. I've seen people claim that common sense means that experiences I've had in real life with real people could not have possibly happened. And I don't mean supernatural stuff, I mean just everyday stuff. |
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No, not really. I just suck at resisting the impulse to write responses.
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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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Well, I do think that WoW has been upgraded quite a bit more than CoH, and I think Cataclysm is a much deeper overhaul than we'll see with Going Rogue.|
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
So, other than subscriber numbers, CoH and WoW aren't that different. Both have been upgraded and both are "old".
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Originally Posted by UnSub
I'll let you in on a little secret: there are a lot of people who don't like CoH/V. They tried it, they played it, they got sick of the lvl grind and / or constantly seeing the same maps in their instanced missions. Some players hate that CoH/V is so instance dependent; others hate the lack of visible loot, or the lack of an endgame they consider worthwhile. EQ / DAOC players of the time felt that CoH/V was too light and breezy, that it lacked substance.
And so on. |
Correction: There are a lot of people who *want* to like COH/V. And then there are others (like me) who *love* COH/V but got tired of waiting for some fresh new interactive game mechanics to play with (that goes beyond the whole "zone/instance content vs. QoL improvements" argument that has plagued this community for the past two years).
Don't get me wrong: I love how everything's been redressed to look new again (animations, power customization, new "booster pack" costumes, new Fifth Council TFs), but underneath it all its still the same old game mechanics that we saw in 2004.
No doubt, Going Rogue is going to be something special but its got the stage dressings of content folks wanted 3 or 4 years ago - not now. I'm glad to see NCsoft has reinvested in the game, but being able to play in a third-world "Praetorian Earth" zone wasn't at the top of many people's list. Find a way to raise the bar on the "I'm a hero/I'm a villain" gameplay interaction to all new levels in the current city/isle zones, and then you'll have a runaway hit that'll last for at least another five years...
And truth be told, unless you're a fan of the game who can appreciate the "Praetorian Earth" references, the average mainstream gamer who's never experienced COH before will look at this retail box on the shelf and give it a pass because its not exactly clear *what* genre experience Going Rogue is trying to sell them - but oh look, there's APB, WoW, Aion and many other titles that make a little more sense.
Me personally, I don't need Praetoria to sell me on "going rogue" between all points good and evil. I need the game as it currently stands to sell me on the experience of being extremely villainous vs. superbly heroic - and I'm still waiting. Get this dual environment fleshed out a bit more, and *a lot* of folks will come running to subscribe. Sadly, I get this kind of immersive experience more out of many console games than I do on a PC game like COH. Its not that PC games *can't* do this (because they can), but rather that they *don't* (ie. it's easier/cheaper to port an innnovative console game over to PC than it is to compete an innovative PC product against a console game) which is a serious mistake.
Feel free to dismiss me as a "hater" if it makes it easier for you, but I swear that I've been playing COH since 2004 until recently and that the only reason I'm taking the time to post this at all is to tell you that I (as do many other former COH subscribers) *love* this game - and I love the Devs for staying on and maintaining its evolution through since 2004 - but the original core premise (or "promise" if you will) of providing a "superheroes vs. supervillains" gaming experience has really gone off the rails by quite a bit - enough so that we don't really feel comfortable coming back as long-term subscribers until it's fixed.
Five years on, what's it going to take for people to stop being so dismissive of critical commentary and start realizing that its all said and done out of love and heartfelt nostalgia for the best superhero game ever made?
(EDIT: Man, I feel like such a [CENSORED] for even logging in to post this but sometimes you guys just really don't get it...)
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The depth of the upgrades would be dependent on the resources, and we both agree that Blizzard has more of that than Paragon Studios.|
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
Well, I do think that WoW has been upgraded quite a bit more than CoH, and I think Cataclysm is a much deeper overhaul than we'll see with Going Rogue.
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Must...stop...replying...
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And a lot of the (admittedly useful) changes that have been made over the years have just been bolted on, without the underlying gameplay or zones being tweaked to reflect them. They could really use a pass through the whole game to try and streamline everything, little tweaks to make things fit together in a way that looks less... well, bolted together. On the other hand, this would take man-hours away from adding more shiny, so you're kind of stuck either way.|
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
I think CoH has been altered a lot, and in many good ways, but most of the original content, no matter how frustrating or annoying or inconvenient to deal with, is still in place largely as it was at launch. Now, five years after launch, you're still automatically sent to the Hollows for your first mission at level 5 and your contacts in a particular level band will still start sending you to the nearest security chief, ultimately blocking all other missions until you clear that one. Many contacts will send you all over Paragon and many of the older task forces (esp Positron) are padded with numerous filler missions.
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I still can't believe they haven't revamped the Positron task force though. I mean, good lord.
@Mindshadow
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I don't have a quote but I kinda remember a dev stating something like they could provide new content or revamp old content with their given resources but not both. so they went with new content.|
Originally Posted by Egos_Shadow
I still can't believe they haven't revamped the Positron task force though. I mean, good lord.
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This could have been a dream but I'm fairly certain I read something similar from a dev awhile back.
Thinking back on how the game played in 04~05, before villains, I think they really have reworked a ton of the game since in addition to adding new content.
It's nowhere near the grindfest that it once was.
Even since villains was released, it's made some pretty significant leaps.
I'm a pretty slow, casual player.
Just got my first 50 this past weekend; my main that I started at the end of 04, a Rad/Rad that I soloed up until ED and had a hard time getting back into the groove once I could no longer six-slot the stuff that kept me alive.
As a result, I don't get burned out on recent changes in a month while i'm leveling my 20th toon to 50.
I started another toon last year around september, prior to that I hadn't really invested a lot of time in a single toon outside of my main - ran a TON of villains up to 16 and a few support heroes to 8 or 10.
This time i rolled a scrapper to accommodate my slow-paced, solo play style.
He should hit 50 in the next week or so; woulda been earlier but a took a break the first half of the year.
Playing him has been like seeing the game again for the first time.
The changes to Faultline, RWZ, & Hollows, plus the additions of Croatoa, Striga, Cimerora, & Shadow Shard really gave the game a different feel - as did a lot of the new mission interiors that broke the monotony of offices, caves, & warehouses.
IOs & crafting has captured my attention, although I was reluctant to take part at first.
The new SSK system has done a lot to break me out of my solo hermitage as well - teamed more this past weekend than I had since 04.
Funny enough, I don't consider my scrapper having a lack of endgame stuff to do- i still have mission arcs to run in Flashback, I still have Task Forces to run, Trials to attempt, not to mention a whole slew of giant monsters hanging around that I'd like take a crack at, and don't even get me started on pvp or the Mission Architect.
On top of that, I've got a whole second game to run in villains and replay value in epic ATs.
I may or may not have a villain 50 by the time GR even comes out, this weekend helped me get my first villain into the 20s.
As a casual player, it always seems like there's something new and interesting to check out. Even a lot of the stuff I have done before still manages to feel fresh. The developers may not be cranking out content ahead of hardcore gamers, but definitely for schmucks like me they have.
I'm highly anticipating Going Rogue.
All set to roll up new toon(s) for it and experience the content.
I hope they could freshen up the existing content even more, though I understand it's all about the baby steps.
As I said before, I would REALLY love some more non-combat oriented missions for heroes; but whether we get that or not remains to be seen.
As far as something looking dated because it came about 5 years ago, just remember HalfLife 2 came out 5 years ago. The Source engine's still being used to crank out games today. I'm not so sure that subsequent episodes of the HL2 series have made as many graphical updates as CoH has done in that time (don't quote me on that though). HL2 graphics don't have a dated feel to me yet, but then maybe I'm not as up to date on the latest advancements in console graphics, not owning a 360 or a PS3.
Looking at the difference between Unreal Tournament engines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Un...Comparison.jpg
It's pretty obvious that we're not at UE3 levels, but I think we've at least made the jump from 1 to 2.
As far as the WoW discussion goes - on these revolutionary new expansions are you still being asked to hunt [insert animal name here] and playing the drop rate game for X number of [insert useless item name here]? If so, then yeah, that game blows.
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well two points that i feel need addressed. First, while im not sure any of us can really claim that our suggestions will make the gamea "runaway hit" I'd say that the introduction of the alignemnt system at least strongly hints that there will be more heroic and villainous feeling content in gr. I cant really imagine how they would implement the alignment system without it and, if the prophetic email is to be beleived, there will be rewards for exemplary heroes and villains as well as those who switch, so while its still guesswork, I'd be surprised if we dont get the kind of content you are referring to. Subjective valuations will always dog good and evil systems, and with the large number of character concepts out there, no writing team on earth is going to catch everyone for a 1-50 ride, but it does seem that the effort is going in.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
Correction: There are a lot of people who *want* to like COH/V. And then there are others (like me) who *love* COH/V but got tired of waiting for some fresh new interactive game mechanics to play with (that goes beyond the whole "zone/instance content vs. QoL improvements" argument that has plagued this community for the past two years).
Don't get me wrong: I love how everything's been redressed to look new again (animations, power customization, new "booster pack" costumes, new Fifth Council TFs), but underneath it all its still the same old game mechanics that we saw in 2004. No doubt, Going Rogue is going to be something special but its got the stage dressings of content folks wanted 3 or 4 years ago - not now. I'm glad to see NCsoft has reinvested in the game, but being able to play in a third-world "Praetorian Earth" zone wasn't at the top of many people's list. Find a way to raise the bar on the "I'm a hero/I'm a villain" gameplay interaction to all new levels in the current city/isle zones, and then you'll have a runaway hit that'll last for at least another five years... And truth be told, unless you're a fan of the game who can appreciate the "Praetorian Earth" references, the average mainstream gamer who's never experienced COH before will look at this retail box on the shelf and give it a pass because its not exactly clear *what* genre experience Going Rogue is trying to sell them - but oh look, there's APB, WoW, Aion and many other titles that make a little more sense. Me personally, I don't need Praetoria to sell me on "going rogue" between all points good and evil. I need the game as it currently stands to sell me on the experience of being extremely villainous vs. superbly heroic - and I'm still waiting. Get this dual environment fleshed out a bit more, and *a lot* of folks will come running to subscribe. Sadly, I get this kind of immersive experience more out of many console games than I do on a PC game like COH. Its not that PC games *can't* do this (because they can), but rather that they *don't* (ie. it's easier/cheaper to port an innnovative console game over to PC than it is to compete an innovative PC product against a console game) which is a serious mistake. Feel free to dismiss me as a "hater" if it makes it easier for you, but I swear that I've been playing COH since 2004 until recently and that the only reason I'm taking the time to post this at all is to tell you that I (as do many other former COH subscribers) *love* this game - and I love the Devs for staying on and maintaining its evolution through since 2004 - but the original core premise (or "promise" if you will) of providing a "superheroes vs. supervillains" gaming experience has really gone off the rails by quite a bit - enough so that we don't really feel comfortable coming back as long-term subscribers until it's fixed. Five years on, what's it going to take for people to stop being so dismissive of critical commentary and start realizing that its all said and done out of love and heartfelt nostalgia for the best superhero game ever made? (EDIT: Man, I feel like such a [CENSORED] for even logging in to post this but sometimes you guys just really don't get it...) |
next, the discussion on pc and console games, and i think you are conflating terms and confusing the argument. The issue of some limitations on coh "cant change the world with yoru decisions, cant remove contacts, cant ever really have a appreciable affect on the world" aren't those of a platform per se, they are issues of a genre, mmos. I'm guessing the morality systems you are referring to are in games like fable, oblivion, kotor and such, and while significant discussion on their merits can be found whenever they are discussed, they have the advantage of being single player games, where the world is the one you and only you experience. If coh was a single player game(something id love, just have paid content packs and a limited online presence) then yeah, we could save croatoa and not get jumped by cabal right after earning their respect, and we could actually have the defeat of the rikti commander(tried spelling it, not pretty) actually affect the world, but the limitations are ones of genre, not of platform, and they are shared across the genre, you either bear with it or you ditch the genre. kotor seems like its going to try to take a stab at that, and i will be watching with bated breath, but i suspect that the mmo genre simply has issues that cant be fixed, and these are some of them.
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It was Positron who said that, in fact. Personally I have to wonder how many of the rough edges like the Positron TF that we oldbies take for granted (and mostly avoid or know how to minimize) end up degrading the experience for newbies. Not everything needs the Full Faultline to be fixed up to a decent level. I do agree that it's kind of a bad choice to have to make with ultimately limited resources though.
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Originally Posted by Clouded
I don't have a quote but I kinda remember a dev stating something like they could provide new content or revamp old content with their given resources but not both. so they went with new content.
This could have been a dream but I'm fairly certain I read something similar from a dev awhile back. |
@Mindshadow
Some of the rough edges have been taken off, though. You can call your contact much sooner on the original TFs, they move you around between zones less, etc. There are often quiet changes like this that don't get trumpeted, for some reason.
They do need to tweak them some, though. They could easily make them better by removing some of the repetitive content and just a bit more uniqueness. I'm not sure how it wouldn't be worthwhile to at least allocate some resources to such things.
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Some people:|
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
* World of Warcraft launched The Burning Crusade, which added multiple new zones, reinvented the endgame with heroic instances as well as new raids, and added two new races.
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| "reinvented the endgame with heroic instances" Are you kidding me? All "heroic" was was a poorly thought out mathematical formula to make gear requirements bigger and sell the same instance twice! That's why so many mobs were unbalanced beyond belief |
And "unbalanced beyond belief" is a huge exaggeration. You should try that on someone who hasn't done heroics in both expansions and is probably predisposed to hate WoW anyway.
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I used to be on the gimme new stuff instead of redoing the old junk side of the fence, but lately I've been running through a bunch of launch content with a critical eye, and in the interest of retaining new players it's got to go- either replace it, or re-work it. |
Originally Posted by Egos_Shadow
It was Positron who said that, in fact. Personally I have to wonder how many of the rough edges like the Positron TF that we oldbies take for granted (and mostly avoid or know how to minimize) end up degrading the experience for newbies. Not everything needs the Full Faultline to be fixed up to a decent level. I do agree that it's kind of a bad choice to have to make with ultimately limited resources though.
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As one of those old timers who got bored with the low level game a long time ago and started farming or PL'ing past it I'd actually forgotten how bog-awful it really is. Yes, you can largely avoid it if you know which contacts and zones to visit, but new players don't know that. They get dumped off in Atlas or Galaxy, most likely talk to their origin contact there and are thus cast down into the mire of wretchedly cookie-cutter, ridiculously travel intensive and pointlessly repetitive original content.
With the recent changes aimed at opening up all the game's content to every character regardless of level it seems like a good time for someone to make a pass over the low level launch content. Even if they don't want to trash it and start over, a team tasked with eliminating pointless travel, sprucing up mission text, imposing some varity and eliminating the plethora of idiotic fedex missions would GREATLY improve the experience.
I'm not one to hold the game's age against it on the whole, but I make an exception for the launch content. It wasn't that great 5 years ago, and it's ridiculous and embarassing that it's the first game experience new players are offered in the year 2009.
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Hehehe. I still remember the crazies of the heroic instances during the burning crusade launch. One of my favourite were the coilfang... ****, was it champions? The ones that were "guarding" passageways down in the reservoir instances and came in pairs. They hit so hard that the encounter was sometimes harder than the bosses depending on the team |
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
Not everyone played those instances on normal (at least in Wrath). They were not well-designed in TBC, since you needed revered reputation and - yes - the mobs were unbalanced
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The fact that most of my guildies (and I) we were fresh at 70 and likely a bit on the undergeared side didn't help... probably..."The sheep broke!! THE SHEEEEEP!!
*SPLAT*"
Good times. I was a bit sad when they went and toned down all those mobs, but only because I enjoy human suffering. Well, that, and I no longer woke up in a cold sweat dreaming of a sheep suddenly turning into a giant scaly serpent and cutting me in half.
I love the new difficulty slider of CoH though, now if only they would add different rewards for using the enemy buffed/player debuffed settings, it'd be awesome.
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I feel your pain. Too many fights were on a razor's edge of "get it right or die" at launch. They got the Wrath heroics better right off the bat.|
Originally Posted by Aliana Blue
Hehehe. I still remember the crazies of the heroic instances during the burning crusade launch. One of my favourite were the coilfang... ****, was it champions? The ones that were "guarding" passageways down in the reservoir instances and came in pairs. They hit so hard that the encounter was sometimes harder than the bosses depending on the team
The fact that most of my guildies (and I) we were fresh at 70 and likely a bit on the undergeared side didn't help... probably..."The sheep broke!! THE SHEEEEEP!! *SPLAT*" Good times. I was a bit sad when they went and toned down all those mobs, but only because I enjoy human suffering. Well, that, and I no longer woke up in a cold sweat dreaming of a sheep suddenly turning into a giant scaly serpent and cutting me in half. I love the new difficulty slider of CoH though, now if only they would add different rewards for using the enemy buffed/player debuffed settings, it'd be awesome. |
And the new difficulty options in CoH are pretty nice. Way more flexible than ever before.
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This.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I used to be on the gimme new stuff instead of redoing the old junk side of the fence, but lately I've been running through a bunch of launch content with a critical eye, and in the interest of retaining new players it's got to go- either replace it, or re-work it.
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The initial game experience is critical to keeping players past the first 30 days (and also why I am so critical of the trial restrictions, but that's a different issue). Unfortunately the majority of low level content has remained fairly untouched since launch (yeah, the tutorial got a little touch up and there are some more revised maps added since then, but not much). On top of this the very first TF is widely recognised as the least player-friendly and interesting TF in the game.
I fully get the idea that you have the resources to either add new content or rework old content at one time, but you can also switch it up - this issue Dark Astoria gets a work over, next issue here comes a brand new lvl 50 zone. Some of the best, most interesting work done in CoH can be seen in Faultline and it makes the zone interesting to revisit. Just adding in new content means that players are spread ever-thinner over the content (up to lvl 50 or so), which has its own issues.
I'm sure GoRo is going to have a full new player experience in it. I look forward to seeing what Paragon Studios has learned and what they are going to do with it. If it is an improvement, I can also see the entire existing early level experience of CoH/V ignored by current and future players.
Finally, nothing I felt the need to respond...
DOH! 
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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(Highlight mine.) Yes, I've been playing up a couple of new characters the old-school way, avoiding all the "new" zones of The Hollows, Faultline, and Croatoa. I'm almost ashamed for new players how much of a chore travel is. And regardless of why, I encounter a LOT of new players these days.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Yes, you can largely avoid it if you know which contacts and zones to visit, but new players don't know that. They get dumped off in Atlas or Galaxy, most likely talk to their origin contact there and are thus cast down into the mire of wretchedly cookie-cutter, RIDICULOUSLY TRAVEL INTENSIVE and pointlessly repetitive original content.
I'm not one to hold the game's age against it on the whole, but I make an exception for the launch content. It wasn't that great 5 years ago, and it's ridiculous and embarassing that it's the first game experience new players are offered in the year 2009. |
I'm with the Goat. Revamp the old stuff, please.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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You know, when comparing with the old low level stuff, I'm sure many of us could name a number of MiA arcs that top them, easily.|
Originally Posted by NuclearToast
(Highlight mine.) Yes, I've been playing up a couple of new characters the old-school way, avoiding all the "new" zones of The Hollows, Faultline, and Croatoa. I'm almost ashamed for new players how much of a chore travel is. And regardless of why, I encounter a LOT of new players these days.
I'm with the Goat. Revamp the old stuff, please. --NT |
I remember they hinted sometime that making player created arcs part of the "outside world" was something they did contemplate. This is probably a great reason to do it. Not like "hold a contest for best Posi TF remake" hasn't been suggested before...
Seriously, they could plunder the MiA and fill Atlas, Galaxy, Steel Canyon, Mercy Island, all the lower level zones to the brim with contacts and arcs for all levels - all reviewers in the MiA forum have found some stuff they'll qualify as good, or even great. It still needs time to go through arcs, testing, and selecting, and of course it'd be their responsibility to maintain them after that, but I'm sure it'd save them a lot of work. And it's not like they can't be editors and change arcs when moving them outside the MiA building to fit their gameworld (hopefully, NOT to add travel time!).
Players' Choice Awards: Best Dual-Origin Level Range Arc!
It's a new era, the era of the Mission Architect. Can you save the Universe from...
The Invasion of the Bikini-clad Samurai Vampiresses from Outer Space? - Arc ID 61013
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Is there a handicapping system for MMO's? I know there is in lots of business sectors, but in MMO's?
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Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
The depth of the upgrades would be dependent on the resources, and we both agree that Blizzard has more of that than Paragon Studios.
Must...stop...replying... |
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And considering that most believe a game needs some time after launching to iron out bugs and start hitting it's prime anyway. *shrug*|
Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
The main argument in the artical seems to be a sequel should be made because the game is 5 and half years old. Thats it...
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Then again, you have players who are distracted by anything new and shiny. Oooh, what's that?
...
Anyway, CHV is far from perfect, but I'm more than happy with the game as it is, and pretty excited about Going Rogue.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
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It would be a step up if the devs could have their art team take the time to go back and clean up the way that maps work. If you've played the game for any length of time, you've become intimately familiar with the 'tiles' that make up the maps (and can probably match most of the 5th/Council tiles to the cave tiles they were adapted from). Unfortunately, from talking to Positron, the process of linking tiles together to create maps is not as easy as just lining adjacent tiles up so the pathways match (as anyone who played the early CoV maps can remember from all of the 'black wall' maps).|
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
I'd love to see more maps. Indeed one way Going Rogue could be a big letdown will be if there's as much office/warehouse/cave/office/warehouse/ship/cave as there is at the moment. Still, all MMOs suffer from this to some extent, including WoW. The mines my level 2 human killed kobolds in was exactly the same as the mine that my level 3 undead killed spiders in, despite being on the other side of the world.
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If the map tiles were cleaned up so that building a map could be a matter of placing tiles together so their open paths fitted together, it would alleviate some of the 'same old map' problem by allowing a relatively simple program to dynamically link tiles together into a map the first time a player enters, so that instead of being able to memorize all the maps over time, all the maps for radio/paper missions (and all the others that don't use specific maps) could have maps generated on the fly for each mission.
But this depends on the art department having almost the same kind of time dedicated to cleaning up the map as they did for Power Customization. Not Any Time Soon, in other words.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
In your compare/contrast, you completely skipped over Issues 1-5, reduced City of Villains to a footnote, misrepresented the period between I7 to about I12 (calling it "maintenance mode"), entirely ignored Inventions (which sure as heck changed the game), and glossed over Flashback, Mission Architect, SSK, the new Difficulty Slider, and Power Customization.
Issue 7 added Grandville, LRTF, and Recluse's Victory, all of which were necessary along with the level cap increase for villains. Issue 8 added the Faultline makeover, new costumes and veteran rewards. Issue 9 added the invention system, STF, and the new Hamidon encounter. Issue 10 revamped the Rikti Crash Site into the Rikti War Zone, adding a new zone for heroes and villains from level 35 onward. Issue 11 added more inventions, Ouroboros, Flashback (which was really a way to play existing content at max level characters and had been discussed for two or three years at this point). Ouroboros has hinted at The Coming Storm, but so far nothing more as come of that, and added a few new story arcs for the introduction to Ouroboros, which included a reintroduction of the Fifth Column. It also added Dual Blades and Willpower, which were added to every melee AT. Issue 12 added Cimerora, powerset proliferation, and VEATs.
I think CoH has been altered a lot, and in many good ways, but most of the original content, no matter how frustrating or annoying or inconvenient to deal with, is still in place largely as it was at launch. Now, five years after launch, you're still automatically sent to the Hollows for your first mission at level 5 and your contacts in a particular level band will still start sending you to the nearest security chief, ultimately blocking all other missions until you clear that one. Many contacts will send you all over Paragon and many of the older task forces (esp Positron) are padded with numerous filler missions.
But I never said CoH is a bad game. I just agreed that it's showing its age.
Also, just so it's clear, I am aware that Paragon does not have the same resources to put into City of Heroes that Blizzard has to put into WoW.
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