I keep foiling AE teams
By
Adult_Swim,
Posted on: 2009-08-03 05:08 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
So, hooray for hall monitors?
Do you also demonstrate your superior moral fiber by hanging out under the globe and ratting out homage characters? They should add an "Informant" badge for people who habitually rat out other players. |
Seriously.
Prof Postalot needs a shiny "Tattletale" badge for his stellar efforts in protecting our gaming environment.
Hooray!
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Simple. It's a bogus request. We ain't the devs/GMs/Customer Support people.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I will never understand the stance that people have that because you're obeying the rules and doing something you're requested to do makes you a bad person somehow.
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We're players. Short of something being offensive (to whatever degree a person does find it, be it a racial/ethnic/sexuality/etc. slur), it's inane to ask/expect/comply with any such request.
It's simple - justify to me how it harms me if someone runs around Atlas Park named "Iron-Man"? I'm offended by neither the word "Iron", the word "Man", nor the compound of the two.
You may perhaps counter with the memory of the lawsuit and whatnot, at which time it apparently was agreed by Cryptic/NCSoft to remove all such lawsuit violations that they are made aware of and thus, in a strong CYA move, they appealed to the player community to help rat out such violations.
Again I ask, how does it harm me? NCSoft has their CYA pleading in place and will react to those cases they are made aware of, but let me ask you this. What happens if they are not made aware of them?
Will I suffer harm from this? This ain't a case of speculation or possibilities, prove to me that harm is at the very least a probability before I'll lift a finger when someone runs around with any name that doesn't offend me.
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| Yes, they ARE violations of the rules, no matter how much you say otherwise. The devs and GMs cannot possibly hope to police the entire game themselves, so, they requested that the players assist them. |
You are suggesting the equivalent situation of your local police department asking citizens to report all jaywalkers spotted, without any sort of extigent situation.
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| Simply reporting something does not automatically mean that it will be banned, genericed, or otherwise punished in any way. It simply means you are bringing something to the attention of the people whose JOB it is to make determinations on whether something is a rule violation. If it is indeed a violation of the rules, it will be addressed. If it is NOT a violation of the rules, it will be allowed to stand. |
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| I don't run around reporting everything I see that might be violating some rule or another, simply because that's all I would be doing if it were the case. My own fun is more important to me than wanting others to be punished for something that doesn't affect me. I don't report farms because I don't run them, which is a requirement in order to report them. |
I DO report blatant copyright and trademark infringements if I see them. If it seems that the person in question is unaware of the rules against it I will (politely) inform them of the rule's existence. If it is obvious that they know they are violating a rule I just fire off a quick petition and go on about my business.
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| By no means do I ever hang out and LOOK for things to report, I have better things to do. I don't report anything out of smugness, or because I want to make myself look good. If I report anything it is in the interest of seeing the rules enforced that I, myself, obey. |
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| Sorry about the long post, but I have an issue with people who insist that there is nothing wrong with ignoring laws and rules, and instead state that the people trying to enforce them are the ones in the wrong. |
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[JFA2010]Mod08: And I will strike down upon thee (enrious) with great vengence and .... oh wait wrong script
@enrious, @sardonicism, @MyLexiConIsHugeSon
If you haven't joined a global channel, you're not really looking for team.
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Be careful what you wish for. The badgers would farm the hell out of that badge. Some of us would just get it retroactively. <grin>|
Originally Posted by SlimPickens
Seriously.
Prof Postalot needs a shiny "Tattletale" badge for his stellar efforts in protecting our gaming environment. Hooray! |
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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That is a really messed up thought process. But...for some strange reason, I can't deny it. A small part of my brain is telling you may just be right. And that disturbs me. |
Originally Posted by Casual_Player
You might've quoted the wrong poster there, Shadow.
I'm not the one telling you how to play your game. I'm the one telling you you're naive for thinking this game about vigilantes won't attract people who act like vigilantes, who then tell you how to play your game. |
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For reporting all of three farms in my entire career? That sounds a bit low.
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Originally Posted by SlimPickens
Seriously.
Prof Postalot needs a shiny "Tattletale" badge for his stellar efforts in protecting our gaming environment. Hooray! |
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So your saying what?|
Originally Posted by Barata
They can be very challenging. Likewise, they can be very easy when the mobs are designed with an attack type that the author happens to have the highest defense against, and designed with the least resistance to the attack type the author happens to have.
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That The Risk vs reward varies according to the team.
Gee what does that sound like?
Oh right
Normal content
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Does it count as Godwin's Law if you declare your opponent to be Soviets instead of Nazis? Or can we get a new law that encompasses that as well?|
Originally Posted by Gr33n
The KGB would have loved you!
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Originally Posted by SlimPickens
Seriously.
Prof Postalot needs a shiny "Tattletale" badge for his stellar efforts in protecting our gaming environment. Hooray! |
We'll always have Paragon.
See, this thread overall is why I prefer anti-farmers to farmers. Anti-farmers at least care about something other than themselves, while farmers have an amazing entitlement complex that boils down to "How DARE anyone APPLY RULES to me?! I pay $15 a month, therefore I SHOULD WIN THIS GAME".
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What about the anti-farmer farmers like me? :(
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Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
See, this thread overall is why I prefer anti-farmers to farmers. Anti-farmers at least care about something other than themselves, while farmers have an amazing entitlement complex that boils down to "How DARE anyone APPLY RULES to me?! I pay $15 a month, therefore I SHOULD WIN THIS GAME".
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To be fair, I thought the title was a cry for help.
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The vast majority of boss farms I've been on generally have at least 1 death per spawn. If and when something goes wrong I haven't seen very much vanilla content that can wipe a team that fast. I've seen boss farms vaporize granite brutes in about 6 seconds |
Originally Posted by EvaDestruction
I don't farm, so answer me this: Do any of these "challenging" all boss missions have a variety of enemies with debuffs, controls, exotic damage types, armors, or any powers beyond the bare minimum of what they're forced to have? And how many of the really popular ones let you set your difficulty, so you can determine what level of "challenge" you want to attempt, rather than automatically being forced to face +2s or +4s?
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+2-4 bosses hit for about 600-700 damage with their melee attack(s) and 300+ with their ranged. Most squishies have less than 1,200 hp. If the agro control fails, squishies die in the blink of an eye. When a couple of the buff/debuff squishes drop then the "meat" lasts a few more seconds with no support.
Before I attained soft capped s/l defense on my /kin troller I would die a LOT, now I generally don't die unless there is a team breakdown. I still see most trollers that go anywhere near the spawn face down in mere seconds.
For me boss farms are the most enjoyable thing in this game right now. Massive risk, very good reward. To me it feels like taking on a couple AV's at the same time, except the reward is actually fair.
That said, some boss farm teams you get on are awesome. If you get a good foundation of 3-4 strong players with good builds then you fly through the mobs. Just like any high level taskforce or mission team that ends up netting you ridiculous rewards relative to most pugs.
Sure boss farms could be made more difficult with buff/debuff, or mezzing, or bosses with impressive defenses, but as it stands they are still harder than almost all vanilla content.
If the Developers of the game condemn the farmers, then the farmers must be hunted down wherever they farm!
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Amen! Amen my brotha, Amen to the heavens! AMEN|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
The vast majority of boss farms I've been on generally have at least 1 death per spawn. If and when something goes wrong I haven't seen very much vanilla content that can wipe a team that fast. I've seen boss farms vaporize granite brutes in about 6 seconds
+2-4 bosses hit for about 600-700 damage with their melee attack(s) and 300+ with their ranged. Most squishies have less than 1,200 hp. If the agro control fails, squishies die in the blink of an eye. When a couple of the buff/debuff squishes drop then the "meat" lasts a few more seconds with no support. Before I attained soft capped s/l defense on my /kin troller I would die a LOT, now I generally don't die unless there is a team breakdown. I still see most trollers that go anywhere near the spawn face down in mere seconds. For me boss farms are the most enjoyable thing in this game right now. Massive risk, very good reward. To me it feels like taking on a couple AV's at the same time, except the reward is actually fair. That said, some boss farm teams you get on are awesome. If you get a good foundation of 3-4 strong players with good builds then you fly through the mobs. Just like any high level taskforce or mission team that ends up netting you ridiculous rewards relative to most pugs. Sure boss farms could be made more difficult with buff/debuff, or mezzing, or bosses with impressive defenses, but as it stands they are still harder than almost all vanilla content. |
Boss maps are brutal
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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I don't normally do this...but...|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
The vast majority of boss farms I've been on generally have at least 1 death per spawn. If and when something goes wrong I haven't seen very much vanilla content that can wipe a team that fast. I've seen boss farms vaporize granite brutes in about 6 seconds
+2-4 bosses hit for about 600-700 damage with their melee attack(s) and 300+ with their ranged. Most squishies have less than 1,200 hp. If the agro control fails, squishies die in the blink of an eye. When a couple of the buff/debuff squishes drop then the "meat" lasts a few more seconds with no support. Before I attained soft capped s/l defense on my /kin troller I would die a LOT, now I generally don't die unless there is a team breakdown. I still see most trollers that go anywhere near the spawn face down in mere seconds. For me boss farms are the most enjoyable thing in this game right now. Massive risk, very good reward. To me it feels like taking on a couple AV's at the same time, except the reward is actually fair. That said, some boss farm teams you get on are awesome. If you get a good foundation of 3-4 strong players with good builds then you fly through the mobs. Just like any high level taskforce or mission team that ends up netting you ridiculous rewards relative to most pugs. Sure boss farms could be made more difficult with buff/debuff, or mezzing, or bosses with impressive defenses, but as it stands they are still harder than almost all vanilla content. |
QFT.
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Generalize much?
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Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
See, this thread overall is why I prefer anti-farmers to farmers. Anti-farmers at least care about something other than themselves, while farmers have an amazing entitlement complex that boils down to "How DARE anyone APPLY RULES to me?! I pay $15 a month, therefore I SHOULD WIN THIS GAME".
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Support the Mentor Project - http://tinyurl.com/citymentorproject
[JFA2010]Mod08: And I will strike down upon thee (enrious) with great vengence and .... oh wait wrong script
@enrious, @sardonicism, @MyLexiConIsHugeSon
If you haven't joined a global channel, you're not really looking for team.
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Why not? Apparently for reporting one farm I'm a grade-school tattle-tale dev suck-up.
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Originally Posted by enrious2
Generalize much?
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lolz getting paid for doing 10 seconds of work, your 2 cents is in the mail |
They pay me, I help them do their jobs. Otherwise, ain't my problem. You are suggesting the equivalent situation of your local police department asking citizens to report all jaywalkers spotted, without any sort of extigent situation. |
Devs have specifically said they didn't want farming done in MA, so I see no real problem with reporting actual farms, it's up to the GMs anyways and you have the chance to appeal if it doesn't go in your favor, and a lot of the farms I've seen...well it's not too hard to see something blatantly obvious when it looks like people just mashed their face across the keyboard when "typing" info.
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I don't think it's a farmer-exclusive mindset.|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
See, this thread overall is why I prefer anti-farmers to farmers. Anti-farmers at least care about something other than themselves, while farmers have an amazing entitlement complex that boils down to "How DARE anyone APPLY RULES to me?! I pay $15 a month, therefore I SHOULD WIN THIS GAME".
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I remember in my early months, I saw someone named Captain Planet Pluto. My friend who got me into this game has been pretty vehement about reporting rip-offs, but I was rather mellow about it. For some reason, I just said "you know, that nick is technically against the rules", and suddenly all of Steel Canyon declared me a huge ***** and I should just stick to my own business and whatever.
That day, my heart grew three times darker and I decided to report any infringement I see. Shunned by society, I saw, for the first time, what society was really like: A gathering of amoral criminals, but not for longer! I shall become the Law, and I shall these low-lives in their rightful place!
... be right back, just got a character concept.
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You're just confusing.|
Originally Posted by Bright_Shadow
What about the anti-farmer farmers like me?
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And as I said, I don't report anything until I've been sufficiently annoyed, offended or inconvenienced by them.
Likewise, I never told on anyone for stealing chalk, sneaking into the computer rooms or throwing impromptu dance parties in school, but I did tell when they called me names.
The problem I have isn't with farmers, or farm missions in AE, or even people who rip off copyrighted characters.
My problem is with the attitude of "I pay my $15 a month, therefore, your rules don't apply to me."
No different than saying "I pay my taxes, so I shouldn't have to obey your laws"
The second statement is obviously ridiculous, and in any situation where you present that as a defense (in court, for example) you will probably be laughed at.
So why is the first statement so common? Why is it when people get caught breaking a rule and are punished for it they view it as some great injustice?
The game is a service that NCSoft provides it's players. You pay for this service. You agree to certain terms every single time you log into the game.
Outlined in those terms, among other things, is that exploiting anything in the game is not allowed. Every last person who was punished for exploiting was punished for violating something that they themselves agreed to.
"But Claws, who actually READS that crap?!"
Simple answer: Anyone who wants to know exactly what they're agreeing to.
Sorry, but if you sign a contract (which that essentially is) without reading it, you have NO right to complain that you were punished for violating it. It's not like they're hiding it, it's right there every time you log into the game.
Personally, I NEVER sign anything without reading it, I read the EULA the very first time I logged in becuse I wanted to know what I was agreeing to when I clicked "I agree" I read it again periodically just to make sure nothing has changed recently.
An AE exploit is loosely defined as "anything that breaks the risk/reward ratio"
I don't consider all boss farms to be such an exploit. Most of them are damned difficult. There is a lot of reward, but also plenty of risk.
On the other hand, the healing mito farms are/were such an exploit. You get xp for something that does not fight back. The reward is there, the risk is nonexistent. That is a good example of "breaking the risk/reward ratio"
I agreed to the terms where that was outlined as an offense. I am not committing that offense.
JoeSchmoe here also agreed to the same terms, only he IS committing an offense. In all likelyhood he will eventually be caught and somehow punished for it.
It doesn't matter how you get caught. Whether it is reported by another player or a GM stumbles across it on their own is completely irrelevant. You have no legitimate defense in that situation.
Ignorance of the terms of agreement does NOT excuse you, just ask any number of bands that signed a contract without reading it only to find out the record company owns everything they did. Just for grins, ask a lawyer if you can be excused from a signed contract because you didn't read it and didn't know what you were agreeing to. Depending on how polite the lawyer is, they may or may not laugh in your face.
"I pay my $15 a month!" isn't a defense either, because so does everyone else. If they didn't violate an agreement and you did, you will be punished and they won't. There's nothing unfair about it, no matter how much anyone claims otherwise.
The people who report such things are usually looking at it from the perspective that they are obeying the terms of agreement, and it is not right for someone else to ignore them and get away with it. The vast majority of those people, if they are caught violating it themselves, will accept their punishment without complaint, because it is fair.
(Note: The "you" used extensively in this post is a general "you" and not directed at anyone in particular)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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If the shoe fits...
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Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
Why not? Apparently for reporting one farm I'm a grade-school tattle-tale dev suck-up.
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What if I throw it at you?
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Originally Posted by Major_Glory
If the shoe fits...
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a good point but what most of the pro-farmers in this thread take issue with is the wide brush the anti farmers paint AE with. They will demonise Mito farms, Boss maps, EB maps, and AV maps all in the same sentence but they never even try the mission to see the explot they just say "oh well its all X class or X type. IT has to be a explotive farm"|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The problem I have isn't with farmers, or farm missions in AE, or even people who rip off copyrighted characters.
My problem is with the attitude of "I pay my $15 a month, therefore, your rules don't apply to me." No different than saying "I pay my taxes, so I shouldn't have to obey your laws" The second statement is obviously ridiculous, and in any situation where you present that as a defense (in court, for example) you will probably be laughed at. So why is the first statement so common? Why is it when people get caught breaking a rule and are punished for it they view it as some great injustice? The game is a service that NCSoft provides it's players. You pay for this service. You agree to certain terms every single time you log into the game. Outlined in those terms, among other things, is that exploiting anything in the game is not allowed. Every last person who was punished for exploiting was punished for violating something that they themselves agreed to. "But Claws, who actually READS that crap?!" Simple answer: Anyone who wants to know exactly what they're agreeing to. Sorry, but if you sign a contract (which that essentially is) without reading it, you have NO right to complain that you were punished for violating it. It's not like they're hiding it, it's right there every time you log into the game. Personally, I NEVER sign anything without reading it, I read the EULA the very first time I logged in becuse I wanted to know what I was agreeing to when I clicked "I agree" I read it again periodically just to make sure nothing has changed recently. An AE exploit is loosely defined as "anything that breaks the risk/reward ratio" I don't consider all boss farms to be such an exploit. Most of them are damned difficult. There is a lot of reward, but also plenty of risk. On the other hand, the healing mito farms are/were such an exploit. You get xp for something that does not fight back. The reward is there, the risk is nonexistent. That is a good example of "breaking the risk/reward ratio" I agreed to the terms where that was outlined as an offense. I am not committing that offense. JoeSchmoe here also agreed to the same terms, only he IS committing an offense. In all likelyhood he will eventually be caught and somehow punished for it. It doesn't matter how you get caught. Whether it is reported by another player or a GM stumbles across it on their own is completely irrelevant. You have no legitimate defense in that situation. Ignorance of the terms of agreement does NOT excuse you, just ask any number of bands that signed a contract without reading it only to find out the record company owns everything they did. Just for grins, ask a lawyer if you can be excused from a signed contract because you didn't read it and didn't know what you were agreeing to. Depending on how polite the lawyer is, they may or may not laugh in your face. "I pay my $15 a month!" isn't a defense either, because so does everyone else. If they didn't violate an agreement and you did, you will be punished and they won't. There's nothing unfair about it, no matter how much anyone claims otherwise. The people who report such things are usually looking at it from the perspective that they are obeying the terms of agreement, and it is not right for someone else to ignore them and get away with it. The vast majority of those people, if they are caught violating it themselves, will accept their punishment without complaint, because it is fair. (Note: The "you" used extensively in this post is a general "you" and not directed at anyone in particular) |
or use "Positron told us to report faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrmmmmmmmmms"
He did no such thing, he said EXploitive farms were agaisnt the rules, and they said they don't like farming in AE (and in general) but they never once said "all farming is a banable offense"
if Farming was against the rules the game would have died years ago after they baned 70% of the player base. I garentee you at some point Every single player has repatedthe same content over and over again for some reason, even if you just like the content. your Farming Fun.
How many people run multiple runs of the ITF despite deminishing mertit rewards becase Punching Romans in the Face is fun?
NEWS FLASH
YOU JUST FARMED THE ITF
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Or, if you're an oldtimer like me, you wonder how people forgot the original meaning of "farm" and took it to such ridiculous extremes. |
Originally Posted by Cuppa_LLX
if Farming was against the rules the game would have died years ago after they baned 70% of the player base. I garentee you at some point Every single player has repatedthe same content over and over again for some reason, even if you just like the content. your Farming Fun.
How many people run multiple runs of the ITF despite deminishing mertit rewards becase Punching Romans in the Face is fun? NEWS FLASH YOU JUST FARMED THE ITF |
"Farming" arose to describe a certain emerging style of play that focused on a carefully "cultivated" experience- one that maximized reward (whatever reward you were seeking) minimized risk, and narrowed the experience of the game to a very small location. ITF repeats certainly narrows the experience of the game to a small location, but I don't see it min/maxing reward.
What's happened is that people have taken to using the damn word when only a few of those characteristics are in play, making every idiot thing you do once you log in likely to be a "farm."
Come on people, if farming was that broadly defined, we wouldn't have needed to make up a word for it!
Unless you wanna pay my $15/month. If you want, you could PM me your credit card and I'll put it on my subscription. Then I'll happily play the game the way you want it to be played!
I'm not the one telling you how to play your game.
I'm the one telling you you're naive for thinking this game about vigilantes won't attract people who act like vigilantes, who then tell you how to play your game.
Statesmonkey Sez: Lighten up! It's a game, for Lincoln's sake!
Also: Six years of casual play begins to look an awful lot like one year of hardcore play.