I keep foiling AE teams
By
Adult_Swim,
Posted on: 2009-08-03 05:08 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Could you please point to the post or document that says that AE Farms are considered exploits? I was unable to find anything that said AE farm = exploit so if you know where it's at I would definitely like to read it. |
Originally Posted by ifotym
I think this has been said, but I will say it again anyway:
It is not true that all farms are exploits, and thus against the 'rules' of the game. AE farms have been declared as exploits by the dev team because they tend to involve other aspects that are against what the devs have defined as acceptable game play, like leveling WAY too fast, too much reward for too little risk, etc.. |
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Originally Posted by Positron
Some of you have taken the stance of “how does powerlevelling hurt the game?” and “shouldn’t I be able to play the game the way that I want?” What we want to make clear is in order to keep the game fair, balanced, and challenging, we have to maintain a risk:reward ratio. This is a ratio we’ve spent years attempting to achieve. Mission Architect is not immune to this, and we are taking swift action to see that the problems players are seeing and are being exposed to are remedied.
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This quote was from Positron in May concerning the abuse of MA. At that time people where heavily using exploits in MA to actively power level their toons. Methods like front loading groups of bosses around defendable buffing objects or loading a mission full of allies who buffed/debuffed. Those are farms, but the problem is not that they are a farm but that they are exploits that reduce the risk/reward to almost 0%/100%. I would challenge you to take a toon that you don't know how to play or that you haven't slotted into one of my farm missions. You would die constantly... I agree that exploits that allow for crazy one to two day 50's is just wrong. But playing an open map mission full of bosses carries high risk/high reward. There is no exploit in it, we just build toons that can withstand the beating and can dish it back.
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You're welcome! :D
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Originally Posted by Optimus_Dex
Thanks , whew that was an overwhelming burden lifted off me. Countless sleepless nights have now been saved.And I"m sure they have people devoted to profits.
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Jesus Hell, ifotym, the edit button is your FRIEND! Use it!
Wow, I didn't think people would actually think I was being serious about 'natural charisma'.
Jeez.
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Didn't you know?|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
Wow, I didn't think people would actually think I was being serious about 'natural charisma'.
Jeez. |
CoH is serious business.
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There is nothing that says AE farm = exploit, but, the I14 patch notes clearly state that AE is not to be used for farming, which is what people creating these farms continually ignore.|
Originally Posted by _Prankster_
Could you please point to the post or document that says that AE Farms are considered exploits? I was unable to find anything that said AE farm = exploit so if you know where it's at I would definitely like to read it.
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Personally, I only have one beef with farmers on MA. When I search for a story arc, having to wade through a hundred thousand versions of the EXACT SAME FARM!!
Those are the ones I report, just to cull the list. Just because one farms buff NPCs have different costumes than anothers does not make it any different. Having the exact same map, exact same enemies, etc... c'mon people! I don't report them because they're farms, I report them because they're spam
If not for that, I couldn't care less at this point about AE farms.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
So, hooray for hall monitors?
Do you also demonstrate your superior moral fiber by hanging out under the globe and ratting out homage characters? They should add an "Informant" badge for people who habitually rat out other players. |
This....
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
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Don't consider this as an attack on your argument or anything. I'm just bringing a discussion on the table.|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
There is nothing that says AE farm = exploit, but, the I14 patch notes clearly state that AE is not to be used for farming, which is what people creating these farms continually ignore.
Personally, I only have one beef with farmers on MA. When I search for a story arc, having to wade through a hundred thousand versions of the EXACT SAME FARM!! Those are the ones I report, just to cull the list. Just because one farms buff NPCs have different costumes than anothers does not make it any different. Having the exact same map, exact same enemies, etc... c'mon people! I don't report them because they're farms, I report them because they're spam If not for that, I couldn't care less at this point about AE farms. |
People say AE was not meant for farming.
So you mean, if I see an arc in AE...ANY ARC...and I like it. For whatever reason. And I start to play it over and over again, in a very repetitive manner...
Do I deserve to be punished? Does the arc deserve to be banned?
This is merely an example of what the difference between farming and exploiting is. You can never stop farming. It always exists over EVERY ASPECT of an MMO.
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The KGB would have loved you!
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Ah, such refreshing posts.
What you see as "a rat" I see as a good community member doing his part to bring possible community issues to the attention of the people that have the authority and responsibility to make the final decision. This isn't an adversarial system of "us (players)" vs "them (devs)" like prisoners vs inmates or children vs the grown-ups... both images that your wording of "snitch" and "rat" evoke. I like to think most of us are above that. Most of us, at least. This is just a bit of community empowerment. It's a little bit community organization, a little bit "neighborhood watch" and maybe a little bit of "adopt a highway" helping pick up the trash. Of course, if you feel more like "the trash" than the community, you're entitled to those feelings. EDIT: for you latecomers, the above doesn't imply that the other players are "trash" merely that there are often messes left behind and sometimes the devs want help sorting through them. The last line was supposed to joke that some people will feel like the "trash" and nothing I can do will change that. It's been taken to mean that I'm calling people that think differently "trash" and for that, I apologize. |
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
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People don't say AE is not meant for farming, the official position from it's release is that AE is not meant for farming.|
Originally Posted by Bright_Shadow
Don't consider this as an attack on your argument or anything. I'm just bringing a discussion on the table.
People say AE was not meant for farming. So you mean, if I see an arc in AE...ANY ARC...and I like it. For whatever reason. And I start to play it over and over again, in a very repetitive manner... Do I deserve to be punished? Does the arc deserve to be banned? This is merely an example of what the difference between farming and exploiting is. You can never stop farming. It always exists over EVERY ASPECT of an MMO. |
Now, semantics can be argued over and over, but, the fact is that the people who create farming arcs and the people who run them know they are doing so.
So, it comes down to intent, which is not a good thing to make a rule over. So I'm not defending the devs for this rather nebulous rule.
The only reason I bring it up is because those who defend farming usually admit to farming on the AE or admit to creating farm arcs, and act like they're not breaking any rules.
Your last sentence is why I wouldn't help the devs police AE. I do think it's rather hypocritical, however, that the same people who want to be able to do whatever they wish in spite of the rules, feel the need to harass someone who wants to help the devs enforce them. (that's a general statement, not directed at the person I'm quoting)
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
Unfortunetly, this thread is moot, AE will be farmed over normal content if only for the fact that i can farm it in say Cappie. Even if they reduce all mobs to Freaks, Nemisis, Demons and Warriors, take away the auto-sk; i will still farm it 'cuz i can farm it in cap rather then grandville.
Any system that gives any sizable advantage over another will be sought by farmers as farmers are often min/maxers. I still prefer the method i use on my farms when i post them using a bar-code system consisting of uppercase i's and lowercase L's in order to avoid having them found by the casual AE arc player.
The devs would make better headway trying to seperate farms then eliminate them at this point. AE is sold as an alternative leveling system, what is there to expect but farming when farming existed in the original leveling system?
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I agree with most of your points.|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
People don't say AE is not meant for farming, the official position from it's release is that AE is not meant for farming.
Now, semantics can be argued over and over, but, the fact is that the people who create farming arcs and the people who run them know they are doing so. So, it comes down to intent, which is not a good thing to make a rule over. So I'm not defending the devs for this rather nebulous rule. The only reason I bring it up is because those who defend farming usually admit to farming on the AE or admit to creating farm arcs, and act like they're not breaking any rules. Your last sentence is why I wouldn't help the devs police AE. I do think it's rather hypocritical, however, that the same people who want to be able to do whatever they wish in spite of the rules, feel the need to harass someone who wants to help the devs enforce them. (that's a general statement, not directed at the person I'm quoting) |
Basically, my view on the topic is that I do whatever I'm allowed to do in this game as long as I'm not bothering someone else. The is the right of every single CoH subscriber.
The same way I don't harass people who oppose farming, I expect people to not harass me for farming either. If I enjoy farming, and I'm not exploiting something in the game, then that's what I want to do. If the devs don't like it, they would deal with me on their own. But I won't listen to some holier-than-thou player who pretends to be a hall monitor.
I do agree that there are problems with the way AE is implemented right now. I do agree that the VISIBILITY of farming has increased a lot since AE came into the picture. I do agree that the SPEED of leveling has increased a lot since AE came to the picture.*
But I have fun farming. AE has just made farming more accessible to me. I won't go emo if they completely demolish AE. I don't really care. I do what I enjoy doing with the tools given to me at that time. Right now, AE is one of those tools.
I'm not gonna suggest my idea for AE's fix. Because that is another dead horse.
Bottom line is, have fun. Enjoy the game the way you want to enjoy it. Stop trying to disturb what others are doing. If they are not breaking any rules, then you have no right to play "big papa" with them. Feel free to suggest. Feel free to guide. Feel free to express your opinions in reasonable, logical, and mature manner. But don't pretend you're above others. And last, but definitely not the least, THIS IS ONLY A GAME!
Are these points really so hard for some people to understand? Can't we all just chill out and enjoy the game the way we like to?
* Note: This does not mean I also agree that AE has increased "power-leveling" or the actual magnitude of farming. This is a very important point in my stance on the topic.
I don't farm, so answer me this: Do any of these "challenging" all boss missions have a variety of enemies with debuffs, controls, exotic damage types, armors, or any powers beyond the bare minimum of what they're forced to have? And how many of the really popular ones let you set your difficulty, so you can determine what level of "challenge" you want to attempt, rather than automatically being forced to face +2s or +4s?
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Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
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A little Off Topic but I had to say I simply love this signature BS. | Every time you complain about Architect Entertainment killing City of Heroes, Dr. Aeon kills a catgirl. Please, think of the catgirls. |
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You ever run a boss farm?|
Originally Posted by EvaDestruction
I don't farm, so answer me this: Do any of these "challenging" all boss missions have a variety of enemies with debuffs, controls, exotic damage types, armors, or any powers beyond the bare minimum of what they're forced to have? And how many of the really popular ones let you set your difficulty, so you can determine what level of "challenge" you want to attempt, rather than automatically being forced to face +2s or +4s?
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Come back when you have wit ha varity of teams and then tell us how "easy" it is
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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It's just that when people look in your eyes, they find themselves lost in them. Quite hypnotic, really.
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Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
Wow, I didn't think people would actually think I was being serious about 'natural charisma'.
Jeez. |
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Justify your snitching however you like, kid.
A rat is a rat. |
Let me guess. You also dislike police officers because they interfere with a person's right to engage in illegal activity? Your response here gives me the distinct impression that you would watch someone being viciously beaten without calling the police or attempting to intervene. I mean, if you did, that would make you a rat, right?
And of course, when you yourself are victimized, you will probably be the first to complain that no one said anything or tried to help.
I don't personally know you, so I can't say with any certainty that you are that type of person. I only say it because that has been the mentality of the vast majority of people I have met in my life that have said something like the above quote.
The devs have specifically ASKED the playerbase to report things that are known offenses. I fail to see how responding to that request makes you a bad person.
If you choose not to report such things, no one is forcing you to. But acting like people who do report things are the ones doing something wrong is ridiculous.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
There are so many ways to solve the 'farm' problem with AE--not that players playing the way they want should be viewed as a problem.
Alternative 1: make it impossible to set up traditional farming mobs. COn: makes many missions terribly easy/boring.
Alternative 2: Remocve X from AE missions. Con: Goes to the other end of the equation--all risk, no reward.
Alternative 3: Cap the total XP gained on a sliding scale--as you go beyond so much XP earned from what your character started with, the ampount you recieve is diminished. So long, prolonged mass farming mishes just dont deliver on XP while infrequent farms, or a series of smaller, non farm missions is ok.
Farmings always been around--after all, the DEv;s are the ones who've made so many classic farming missions anyway.+ To say AE is suddenyl the wrogn place for farming..well, perhaps it just points out that the Ae generator, at best, can geerate a limited number of missions that quickly grow stale and boring compared to the regualr content of the game. (After trying many of the Dev choices arcs, all I can say is 'meh' for the supposed creativity; as for challenge, some fo the hated farms are more interesting).
But some change woudl be nice, at least it would get rid of the growing number of griefing snitche players who have appointed themsleves as CoH's own morality police.
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So the Dev's have asked pope to be snitches. Just doing somethign because the powers that be asked you to doesn't make you a saint. It just makes you an eager compliant stool pigeone when it comes to non-exploiting farms.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
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The devs have specifically ASKED the playerbase to report things that are known offenses. I fail to see how responding to that request makes you a bad person. |
Seeing that the Dev''s seem so worked up about AE farms, yet do nothing to correct so many game flaws, the influence peddlers..it makes me laugh at their priorities.
off topic:
you know since the new system went in i've gotten 2 reports (for 0 points). You wanna talk Greifing the reputation system is for you to make hidden attack on people.
Seriously reporting someone with the comment "learn to spell"
For shame.
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by FeroxRex
snitches
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| stool pigeon |
I'm finding it very hard to see why you accuse other people of taking the moral high ground when it so often seems like you lot are deliberately taking the moral low ground and celebrating it.
It makes it very hard to be open-minded and even-handed, frankly.
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How's that working out for ya?|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
I don't report farming missions to play hall monitor, I report farming missions because I hate them and believe they make the game worse.
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*looks at all the farming missions that still exist*
Personally, I think it's an EPIC WASTE OF TIME, as for everyone that is locked 10 more spring up it's place.
I prefer to spend my time playing the game and letting the GMs do their job as Posi said they would be.
To each his own.
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Agreed. Actually starting this thread was an epic mistake. I'm surprised MOD 8 hasn't come around yet.|
Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
Can you PLEASE come up with some term that doesn't cast you as a bunch of jolly criminals or adolescent delinquents.
I'm finding it very hard to see why you accuse other people of taking the moral high ground when it so often seems like you lot are deliberately taking the moral low ground and celebrating it. It makes it very hard to be open-minded and even-handed, frankly. |
To the OP: If you want to report farms do so, there is no need to let the entire forum community know.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I MENTIONED that I took 2 seconds to report an obvious farm, mainly out of spite.
Jeez people.
I'm sure they have actual people devoted to the job of keeping profits up. So relax.