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Btw if you rolled Db/Wp as soon as it came out and now its only 26 you either dont like playing it and theres no reason to be upset about changes or you dont play much at all.
Either way 26 lvls since DB/Wp was introduced really means you didnt spent much time at all playing that toon :-)
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Or...
Maybe he has the odd alt.
Maybe he only gets limited playing time.
Maybe he plays at a leisurely pace (and so doesn't PL to 50 in 20 hrs).
Funnily enough I rolled a db/wp on the day they came out - up until last week they were level 27. Now got them to 42 (still pushing for the Titan spawn event) and noticed last night that they've logged about 87 hrs.
So taking off what I've played in the past week, I'm guessing that it took that character just over 50 hours to get to level 28.
Only hitting 27/28 in 50 hours may not be up to your great standards, Moghedian, but for most people it is still playing a fair bit and plenty of time to become attached to a character! Your comments about not liking the character or not having a reason to be upset at your proposed changes are just wrong.
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^ THIS
Took me 15 *months* to get my first 50, Invul/EM tanker. Time spent on a character is no indication of anything, really, unless you know the context.
Think this thread is utter, utter tripe, tbh. You say deal and adapat? I say the same to you. Go and enjoy the game. If you dont like Brutes being 'Uber' go play something else! Its always an option!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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What i like most with willpower is that it's very non intrusive on your characters appearance.
[/ QUOTE ]What I hate most about Willpower is the horrible pale yellow heartbeat glow, and periodic burst of yellow ripples. 
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Still better than the bright rainbow outline of invuln, and the fully obstruction of stone, fire and ice
Why even bother with a cossie when using those powersets ><
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Inv Tanks looks like disco kings and queens. 
If you want to something to nerfed too badly i say try to convince devs to nerf Ice shields visual fx's. They ruin my cossie.
*I don't feel a need to say something about OP because nerfing seems to be new trend on boards. We dismissed "merge the servers" ones and have this for new year i think *
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Nerfing is the new black.
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Merging is sooooo last season dahlinks.
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Im predicting choosing your team mates powers as the next big thing.....
Issue 16 Power Picker
Sick of your PuG mates powers, seen one too many of those damn WP's .....ZAP , hit the new "change my team mates powers to suit me better" button!
My thanks to thorny and the others who replyed to this before i got a chance but i figure i should awser it as well
While admittedly my post was a late night rant at your apparent inability to see how the Nerf you want to see implemented would affect more than just a single combination of powers lets look at some of my requests.
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you want me to re roll my toon your kidding right? please tell me your kidding i rolled my DB/WP the day the 2 sets went live and I've made it to 26 you want me to throw away all that time spent on the toon the badges he's errand the inf he's earned any inventions he has?
and why because you see SS/WP as being over powered get a grip your clearly off your rocker and out your mind i don't even have SS i have duel blades a set that when paired with willpower works well it doesnt make me a god it doesnt make me a wet paper bag it makes a good well rounded toon that i like to play and you want to Nerf it because the secondary I've picked happens to work even better with a primary i discounted because it didn't match my idea.
before you go calling Nerf on things here's some things to check once you've checked them all come back here with your numbers and truly prove your point.
compare all the brute primaries to each other without considering secondarys do take into account the type of damage they do and any secondary effects they have
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This would seem a very important thing to do how else can you claim SS is over powered if you have not compared it to all the other brute primaries?
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now do the same for the secondary
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Again you cant claim one secondary is better than another without first knowing what all the secondary do
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now compare each and every combination possible so SS/WP SS/elec SS/energy SS/dark SS/SR DM/WP DM/fire DM/elec etc etc etc
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If you dont compare every possible combination of primary and secondary you cant possibly claim one specific combination is flawed
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then do the same but take into account the power pools and patron pools
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Again with all the possible combinations of power pools that can be taken how can you know which combination is truly over powered you claim ss/wp is overpowered but is that ss/wp takeing pool powers and which ones is it hasten that makes it to powerful is it the extra resistance and defence from the fighting pool these are all factors and must be considered.
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now do this with training origin enhancements up to the appropriate lvl
now do it with DOs
now do it with SOs
now do it with higher value IOs eg those that give a better percentage than a standard SO
now do it with HOs
now do it using cheeps IO sets
now do it using expensive IO sets
now do it optimising for specific stats so best end recovery best resistance values best recharge boost
now do it for a completely optimised best it can be build using IOs (standard and invention)
now do it using purple IOs
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You must do this most alts see a fair jump in power when switching from TOs to DOs to SOs and then top range IOs and thats only exchanging like for like theres also the consideration that as the enhancement values get better you can perhaps save a slot on certain powers thus allowing you to slot something else and increasing your power else where so you see you may say oh nerf power X but power X may only become truly power full after being slotted with IOs or even specific sets why should all users of that power suffer because very specific slotting on a specific build of character allows that power to over perform..
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right done all that?..good now take all that data and now do the same thing for every AT villain side once you've done that start comparing the many many different brute builds that you've came up with in different team makeups until you've tried each brute build with each possible team make up.
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How can you compare things in a vacuum this is a MMO there for theres a fair to even chance that your going to team at some point teaming can drastically change the performance of a character
take a stone armour brute there they have good defence and good regen out with granite but suffer from being slow within granit they have good resistance, defence and regen but are even slower and suffer a damage debuff but team them with a kinetics and the biggest disadvantage (the speed) is gone
or fire armour good lvl of resistance good heal and has more than likely picked up some form of KB protection but they still have a rather large hole in that they lacj defence however team with a ice or forcefeild user and you gain defence
I could go on and cover every armour type but I think my point is clear teaming with just one other player can change your toon to the point that if you team with a specific person or group regularly you may alter your build to compliment each other.
So yes you must know how each set performs in a team environment before calling nerf.
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Once you've done all that and seen how a build changes dependent on level, slotting, and team make up you can go on to see how your individual brute builds perform against different enemy groups (you should also do this for the teams)
and now that you've done all this you can come and say
"X power set is overpowered"
until that point all you can say is "well i think X power set is overpowered but i cant prove it" because half arsed numbers you put together from comparing 1 type of power or 1 aspect of something don't = proof.
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You do know yourself most of your your requests are just plain lol..and wont proove anything at all...
Its more than enough to compare the primaries without any enh at all to see which sets perform better and you know it.
Maybe what a maxed recharge build can do, but thats it
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I think Ive just explained why comparing such limited information dosent give you the full picture
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Btw if you rolled Db/Wp as soon as it came out and now its only 26 you either dont like playing it and theres no reason to be upset about changes or you dont play much at all.
Either way 26 lvls since DB/Wp was introduced really means you didnt spent much time at all playing that toon :-)
Infamy can be transfered, as can recipes and sets.....
Many other sets have been nerfed and or buffed over time and ppl learned either to adapt or rolled a new char, simple as that.
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You assume a lot I dont play for large amounts of time in one sitting and I have several alts which I move between are you suggesting that because I did not immediately level my DB/WP to 50 before the next issue that its worthless? I have chosen to saunter thru the levels and work between my many alts am I playing the game wrong? If so it would have been nice if some one in the last 4 years had pointed out that I should roll a character and level them as quickly as possible before moving on to the next I would have saved so much money I would have probably never opened that second account or purchased all those extra slots why oh why do the Devs provide me means to roll more than one character at a tome clearly a new slot should only unlock when you get to 50???
There for I humbly suggest the following
All slots on accounts should be locked (unless the contain a lvl 50) bar 1 this will be the accounts highest non 50 character when this character reaches 50 or is deleted then the next highest character will open up and be playable if there is no more characters the player may create a new character I the have a empty slot or they may purchase some more slots
Also you should only be able to have one CoH account and appropriate checks should be carried out by the billing department where there are 2 or more CoH accounts owned by the player the extra accounts will be deleted and only the oldest account will remain (the player will receive no compensation as its important to be fair)
There that should solve the problem of people taking to long to lvl and making there characters worthless
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bright rainbow outline of invuln
[/ QUOTE ]Huh?
<---*Has an Invul Tanker, does not know of what you speak*
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or is deleted then the next highest character will open up and be playable if there is no more characters the player may create a new character
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Before that page loads, you need to add the "vote on my power choice" screen, which sends an e mail to all players, to make sure your choices are ok with them.
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or is deleted then the next highest character will open up and be playable if there is no more characters the player may create a new character
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Before that page loads, you need to add the "vote on my power choice" screen, which sends an e mail to all players, to make sure your choices are ok with them.
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Still possible to get bias towards some sets.
Wouldn't it be easier if ATs and set choices were assigned by the server to ensure that under-represented sets get promoted? Failing to level an assigned character to 50 gets a temporary account ban?
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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or is deleted then the next highest character will open up and be playable if there is no more characters the player may create a new character
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Before that page loads, you need to add the "vote on my power choice" screen, which sends an e mail to all players, to make sure your choices are ok with them.
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Still possible to get bias towards some sets.
Wouldn't it be easier if ATs and set choices were assigned by the server to ensure that under-represented sets get promoted? Failing to level an assigned character to 50 gets a temporary account ban?
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Once again JD i have to defer to your view of the bigger picture, you are absolutely right!
In fact make it a perma ban, if they cant hear, they will have to feel! Cant have these swines making the wrong char spoiling the game for the majority.
your right how could i have been so blind lets just scrapped power selection and leave it to the server it will pick whichever set doesn't have the correct lvl of representation and assign you the sets.
We could even take it a step further and allow the server to pick which AT we roll as well.
Recently got a few friends playing city of villains, weve made a team that composes of 2 brutes, a mastermind, a stalker a corruptor and a dominator.
Im one of the brutes, went with WM/SD, the other brute player went SS/WP (not aware of its fotm status).
I am very glad he went SS/WP as it seems to be a very easy set to begin playing the game with and has made my tutoring considerably easier.
Im keeping up with him using my shield brute but i tend to have to work alot harder to do so and that tends to mean i face plant a little more often.
I think the risk/work required versus the rewards reaped for willpower might be a little off in comparison to what would be considered balanced but thats a statement that requires some factual evidence to hold presidence, which i dont have at the moment. This is merely a feeling ive gained from observing the set when used on a brute.
Oh..the statement that some combinations should be stronger than others that ive seen pop up a few times in this thread made me laugh.
Go play alongside someone with the same combination of powers regardless of AT, just make sure they are atleast fully SO'd and your not using any enhancements, and please come back here and say how fun it was
I dont think that there are players that are running around with lvl 50 chars slotting TO or DO enh do you really believe that ?
Well all the ppl who said SS is not overperforming and that is a fact, and only the devs can know if a set is too good.
What if those devs are nerfing SS in I14 ?
I do think most of the ppl now saying only the devs can datamine are going to say the devs are wrong and stupid then .
There have been some threads of ET beeing too powerfull, and the EM/ brutes said its not too good.
The devs datamined and decided it has to get nerfed....
And guess what......
The SAME players that said only the devs know when to adjust a power, now said the devs are idiots and dont know what to do.
It doesnt matter at all if the devs or players says a power is too good, the ppl playing those powersets will always say their set is ok and dont needs a nerf, sometimes its even underperforming !!
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What if those devs are nerfing SS in I14 ?
I do think most of the ppl now saying only the devs can datamine are going to say the devs are wrong and stupid then .
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No - wrong again. How wrong can you really be?
If the devs do it because they datamined and found that SS really was overperforming and need an adjustment then they do so with actual facts based upoin how sets are used/performing for the entire playerbase. They'd be quite right.
This is totally different to a handful of players shouting "we did a couple of sums and SS needs nerfing!" without seeing the entire picture.
EDIT: to add an analogy - if I say it's going to rain on Friday because I noticed that it often rains on Fridays you'd all call me an idiot. I wouldn't expect the same people to call the met office idiots if they looked at all the data available and said that they predict rain on Friday.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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only the devs can know if a set is too good.
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True. However, intellegant people can form an opinion. Idiots can also form an opinion. But thier opinion would be wrong.
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What if those devs are nerfing SS in I14 ?
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They could, but it's unlikely, as I have yet to see any evidence to suggest that it is, or that datamining will show that it is.
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There have been some threads of ET beeing too powerfull
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Which it was (at least for tankers). The difference is, SS is not, nor is WP.
And guess which one of those powersets I play? Energy Melee.
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the ppl playing those powersets will always say their set is ok and dont needs a nerf
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Some will, but as I have already demonstrated, not all. However, the key point difference here is there is no evidence to suggest that SS and WP overpowered.
I really should do something about this signature.
This is a remarkably long thread considering it doesn't really matter what any of us think. If the devs decide a power set needs looking at, they'll do whatever they feel they need to do. If and when that happens, some people will jump up and down with joy while others will threaten to leave for good, still others will shrug their shoulders and get on with it.
Interesting discussion but completely pointless...
I dont think most players agree with the devs that the aoes of various brute primaries have been cut down in range and radius.
Why nerf the radius of medicore attacks while leaving the best pbaoe with the biggest radius : Footstomp , untouched ?
Maybe someone can explain to me why those aoes with small radius to start with and no secondary effects to speak of needed nerfing while Footstomp seems to be ok for the devs ?
All in patch notes of today.
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I am very glad he went SS/WP as it seems to be a very easy set to begin playing the game with and has made my tutoring considerably easier.
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Willpower is notable for how quickly it peaks. The problem is that after you hit Rise To The Challenge you have very little to look forward to in terms of becoming that much more survivable. Willpower has no clicks to rely on, it just chugs along without any input at all from you, which makes it easy to just pick up when you're new or, like me, just too psychotically eager with the attacks to remember you've got a health bar too and it's going down. Essentially, Willpower is the idiots choice and I like being stupid.
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Im keeping up with him using my shield brute but i tend to have to work alot harder to do so and that tends to mean i face plant a little more often.
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Shield Defense, by comparison, does not peak too insanely quickly and is for players with a brain. Rest assured though, that once things start to really get rolling you'll be able to slide in a load of Endurance Reduction enhancements, bump your defense up way higher and start prodding buttock with Against All Odds and even more so with Shield Charge.
You'll also be vastly more team friendly, as Grant Cover will help you keep those squishies upright and healing you. They'll appreciate it more than a selfish twonk whose secondary works only for himself and won't hold aggro like yours can.
Unless you're a deluded lunatic.
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Oh..the statement that some combinations should be stronger than others that ive seen pop up a few times in this thread made me laugh
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Some will most certainly be stronger than others...depending on how you use them and what situations you're using them in. Your Shield Defense is much more valuable to the team than Willpower, since the healing gap in your defence can be filled by another player, you help others in a direct and quantifiable way and still don't fall over at the drop of a hat. Whichever primary you choose, SD will also make it hit harder with Against All Odds and give you a massive teleporting attack that will knock enemies on their butt to ruin their alpha and get you rolling in true Brute style.
Willpower is the solo choice, it's my favourite for that reason because I hate everyone and thing in existence, but all it has going for it to support your primary is Quick Recovery. It's pretty easy to synergise with other Primaries when people are ignorantly obsessed with "OMG SECOND STAMINA!" (I am, can't help it) and don't see past to what is an otherwise a set so brutally and selfishly generic it synergises with anything because there's nothing with any flavour in it to actually have to bother synergising with.
This is why so many comic characters are using willpower in the comics. Writers can't seem to be bothered to keep up with a large cast of characters all with exciting different powers they have to be aware of when writing, so you end up with legions of characters who all have some vaguely interesting method of attack backed up by a generic level of invulnerability, dodging and inhuman determination (actually regeneration since normal people can't shrug off sucking chest wounds by just ignoring it) that doesn't commit itself to anything particular.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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This is a remarkably long thread considering it doesn't really matter what any of us think.
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Absolutely! Whether people think its OP or not, if the powers that be also thought that they would have changed by now, and they wouldnt have made it like this in 1st place. I have raved about WP since before it was released (even when it was predicted to be trash) and confirmed with the various /WP toons i have made since then. For whatever reason the original poser decided to spit the dummy out, and the rest to follow suit i would suggest jst to deal with it! And hey, if it gets nerfed then fair enough! But tbh the amount of people who enjoy playing the /wp set will way outnumber the people who dont, and unless there is some real serious imbalance reason (i.e. PvP) i dont think they will change it.
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All in patch notes of today.
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Link, please. I've checked here, in the US, both training room forums and I can't see a patch today.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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Shield Defense, by comparison, does not peak too insanely quickly and is for players with a brain.
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Shield Defense possibly isn't as good as WP for pure suvivability. It is however infinitely better at providing team buffs, and includes a 20' radius aoe. (also better at holding aggro).
I really should do something about this signature.
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All in patch notes of today.
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Link, please. I've checked here, in the US, both training room forums and I can't see a patch today.
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Click the link at loginscreen :-)
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Maybe someone can explain to me why those aoes with small radius to start with and no secondary effects to speak of needed nerfing while Footstomp seems to be ok for the devs ?
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If devs have made changes, they're the ones to offer any explanation they think's needed. Anything players might say would be educated guesses at best, random speculation at worse.
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All in patch notes of today.
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Real patch notes of today, or imaginary ones? Link, please.
Edit, after seeing various replies. So you're looking at a series of small fixes from last week, as announced in the login dialog, and referring to it as today's patch note on a nerf to aoes? As with the "datamining" you referred to earlier, which turned out to be a player opinion in the forums, you need to get your terminology straight - if you want people to take things seriously.
Re. edit: Edited edit!
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Maybe someone can explain to me why those aoes with small radius to start with and no secondary effects to speak of needed nerfing while Footstomp seems to be ok for the devs ?
All in patch notes of today.
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There was no patch note today... was one 22nd jan, which was a week ago. Where they fixed the range on the aoe attacks. Fixed, as in put them to their intended range, not the short one they had before. Oh noes... that was a buff *gasp*
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I dont think most players agree with the devs that the aoes of various brute primaries have been cut down in range and radius.
Why nerf the radius of medicore attacks while leaving the best pbaoe with the biggest radius : Footstomp , untouched ?
Maybe someone can explain to me why those aoes with small radius to start with and no secondary effects to speak of needed nerfing while Footstomp seems to be ok for the devs ?
All in patch notes of today.
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They werent "nerfed". In an earlier patch all of the AoEs had their radiuses inadvertently increased and this patch just corrected them.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Just a comment to the proposition that you couldnt, hypothetically, nerf WP/SS without nerfing the individual sets.
Im sure that possible; well, perhaps with a minimal collateral damage
E.g.
Rage crash changed to [x] seconds where Toons regen and recovery is reduced to zero. A differnt crash for everyone else, but hurts WP by far the most (small effect on Stone unfortunately)
Rise to the Challenge gets aggro/taunt buff, but does not supply +regen to knockdown foes. (Less accurate, but spares Fire Melee, Dark Melee, Energy Melee, and minimal effect on Mace)
KO Blow / Foot Stomp, decreased end cost/recharge/whatever, but cost of the attack halves all +recovery buffs for [x] seconds as it takes so much out of you (Specific to Will Power)
Strength of Will causes such focus that you ignore all +damage and damage debuffs (change for most toons, but nerf for the rage of superstrength)
Just examples.
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Rage crash changed to [x] seconds where Toons regen and recovery is reduced to zero. A differnt crash for everyone else, but hurts WP by far the most (small effect on Stone unfortunately)
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Or, instead of your terrible solution, making it a normal build up! Or, shock horror, just reducing its buffs to the same as the various followup attacks to account for its similar potential to always be on, and remove the crash.
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Rise to the Challenge gets aggro/taunt buff, but does not supply +regen to knockdown foes. (Less accurate, but spares Fire Melee, Dark Melee, Energy Melee, and minimal effect on Mace)
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Why does Battle Axe deserve to get completely screwed?
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KO Blow / Foot Stomp, decreased end cost/recharge/whatever, but cost of the attack halves all +recovery buffs for [x] seconds as it takes so much out of you (Specific to Will Power)
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Why does every other set deserve to get completely screwed? In fact, that hits Willpower the least because you're halving a far larger +Recovery number than every other set.
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Strength of Will causes such focus that you ignore all +damage and damage debuffs (change for most toons, but nerf for the rage of superstrength)
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You just completely removed Fury, the whole point of a Brute, for a minor ninth tier resist. Great.
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Just examples.
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Please, no more.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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*
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What i like most with willpower is that it's very non intrusive on your characters appearance.
[/ QUOTE ]What I hate most about Willpower is the horrible pale yellow heartbeat glow, and periodic burst of yellow ripples.
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Still better than the bright rainbow outline of invuln, and the fully obstruction of stone, fire and ice
Why even bother with a cossie when using those powersets ><
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Inv Tanks looks like disco kings and queens.
If you want to something to nerfed too badly i say try to convince devs to nerf Ice shields visual fx's. They ruin my cossie.
*I don't feel a need to say something about OP because nerfing seems to be new trend on boards. We dismissed "merge the servers" ones and have this for new year i think
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Nerfing is the new black.
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Merging is sooooo last season dahlinks.