Cognito

In retrospect I should have changed thread title.

The question is: Does anyone know what the Dev's "Vision" regarding farming is?

I ask in light of upcoming issue 16, which I think everyone agrees has profound implications for farmers.

(The argument abount farmers good/bad and market effects is probably for another thread).

I'm not going to impose my veiws on farming on everyone else, but I would like to know the philosophy of the game regarding farmers, because it will feed into the equation of how long I stay in it (and others too).

sidefrom I 16 looking pretty good, I can help but noticing its farmers paradise.

Now, on the one hand, im VERY happy that this will mean the end of "Fill plz" requests, and MA may actually be used as intended.

But, its going to have an impact on themarkets. Who knows how much? I supsect inbetween trivial and devestating.

Personally, im getting very confused on the Devs attitude towards Farmers. If they really are going to give all the cream to them, as Issue 16 threatens, I know a lot of people who are going to be pretty upset (translation = lost subscribers, how many up for debate of course). I'm one of them forwhats it worth. To be honest, farmers/farming are, to me, the coffin nail in a game if they reach a critical mass.

Can anyone enlighten me what actually IS the vision of the devs with regards to farmers?

I know you have played this before ( a rather old version,... perhaps v1) but if you could bear it, v4 of

The Viral Army
ID 23256
Suggested Level Range: 22+
Also posted on City of guides

PS: Has included many of your suggestions, so thanks btw!

[ QUOTE ]
Arc #23256, "The Viral Army"
tl;dr: 4 stars. Offenses: Typos, luck based timed mission, really nasty AV.
The story ends somewhat awkwardly in terms of closure. Thought Block is locked up, presumable somewhere where his powers are suppressed. And the clones? Apparently they just have to live on as normal people. Well, normal aside from having a hundred or so others just like them. And our dear little Earth was already overpopulated...



The arc's not bad, really. Some of the plot elements were questionable, such as the mercenaries' total disregard for their own well-being (exposing themselves to the virus), and Dr. Logan not realizing that being exposed to the virus would be a bad thing, despite being the scientist researching said virus. Needs some creative tweaking, there. The car-destroying objectives in mission 2 were somewhat random, could probably be replaced with a glowie hunt where you get rid of leaky canisters of the virus. And increase the time limit! It's an outdoor map full of custom mobs!
I liked the boss design, his costume was like something out of old comic books, exposed brain and Fu Manchu beard going together well. Though Mind/Illusion is always an insane pain to fight, at least it matched his appearance and powers pretty well. In fact, most of the custom mobs were done well, and the author even makes fun of his own silly costume designs for Gundown's soldiers. Aside from the high-WP mobs in mission 2, and the final AV, nothing in this arc should be overly tough.
Worth playing, definitely, though bring a lot of insps or some friends for the final fight, you'll need them.

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THanks for reviewing Col;

A couple of questions and comments...

1. Awkard ending? Good akward or bad akward. I wrote it to specifically be awkard.

2. I have been pondering loosing smoke grenade for some time now. In fact, I *nearly* altered it before your review. Consider the decision now made!

3. It seems you missed some exposition that ties up most (not all)of your plot queries. I will try to sort that out, but by golly it feels like ramming it down peoples throats sometimes

4. It seems your main bone of contention is mission 2 - possibly what lead you to drop a star. I cant say I blame you. (Un)fortunately some specific feedback has been that this is a great mission (e.g. "everything about mission 2 is awesome"). It is, unfortunately, a marmite mission, and one am I most reluctant to tweak further. For instance, the very fact that the cars blend in with the "Natural" scenery" was applauded in some feedback. In addition, the time limit has been fairly extensively playtested: on average its about 70% people do it in time, 30% fail. About the right proportions IMO.

Nevertheless, consider your opinions filed for future reference; one needs to consider emerging themes in feedback that react instinctively to just one (I have found).

Its interesting you comment "worth playing"; I sacrificed the story component on the altar of memory limitations in order to try and bolster the "gaming" aspect. However, individuals will have different priorities as to rating.

Gankvotes are a real phenomena.

Without feedback, I'd just say ignore outliers. Sure, they may lower the average rating, but if your arc is any good it should weather the storm.

Personally I ignore ratings given to my arcs, I only listen to feedback. If there isnt any, then no point listening to it.

As for your global star rating, does anybody take this seriously? IMO 4 star arcs are on average better than 5 star arcs, for instance - at least you have a chance of getting an arc which takes a few risks.

Just ignore, and post your arcs ID, Ill see if I can giveyou some honest feedback some time.

Nice to see reviews on forums (as well as cohguides)

In the fullness of time:

Fat Lou and the Pharmer
ID: 15284
Morality: Heroic, but its a humour arc so whatever!

The Viral Army
ID: 23256
Morality: Heroic
(Perfectly soloable, but more fun in teams)

EDIT: Just saw you only want one arc! Dont blame you. In that case, Viral Army please, as thats the one I can actually change (grrr bloat bug!)

Well for the sake of the Lord, share them, Dante!

I dont like sifting through the dross to get to them!

Id keep MA as it is and set up "Xemulas' maddicts" channel.

Xemulas is to MA what Sal is to badges, and to my mind there is no better person in the EU to reveiw, help, and promote MA.

(Oh and before I forget, please try his arc. He has worked tirelessly reveiwing others, and I think he deserves something for that, please dont forget about his own)

EDIT I posted in wrong thread

May I recommend this website.

MA is a great channel, but is a bit polluted with "Farm" MA speak at the moment. Still, I recommend it till somethingbetter comes along.

I for one have seen "this has breathed new life into the game for me" a lot. But then, I hang around MA a lot.

But its certainly the kind of feedback i have NEVER heard from any other issue, except possibly breakthrough.

Mary Sues are at least slightly more inconspcious than ego arcs! But they are a related phenomenon, for sure.

Time to start a compendium of new MA terminology I think:

Gankvote:
Entering a mission , then quitting giving 1 star, in order to deliberately torpedo the mission or the author.

Ragequit:
Often in the first mission, but can happen anywhere. Tends to occur when faced with things like "Rescue 20 hostages" or "Find 30 clues", but can occur with overpowered minions, orebanga maps, or unballanced enemies etc.

Ego Arc:
An Arc with players own toon in. Particularly used in the context of making that toon very powerful and dialouge that insinuated or even blantantly shouts how much more powerful that toon is than the player. Also used in the context of the toon being crowbarred into the story for no good reason.

Marmite Arc:
Love/Hate. You give it 1 star or 5. the Arcs that have such conflicting veiws nobody knows what its like.


Anybody picked up any other new phrases?

The Golden rule is: YOU CANT PLEASE EVERYBODY!

What you can do is: Make sure mission description is explicit about what the arc contains.

For a low level arc I would avoid an AV, and maybe have an EB as a grand finale. On a high level, I would have some EBs scattered in the arc, with an AV at the end.

Now thats just my personal preference

They may actually by marked as AV's, which are then downgraded to Elite Bosses on heroic. Which of course is even worse from one perspective!

Im fairly certain on my testing that those marked as EB's go down to bosses on heroic.

Any arc with EBs or AVs should be clearly stated

I dont mind an EB in an arc. In fact I like it... providing a) its balanced and b)there is warning of the fact. Actually, on heroic, it seems an EB is downgraded to a boss anyway which is perfect!

Just thought I would share with you my experience this morning

This morning I thought I would take a look at a few random "5 star" missions. Totally at random, but only those with 10 votes or more.

Observations

1. There are actually very few of these missions
2. Those that are there tend to be Dev's choice,and tbh most of those only got 4 stars from me (I guess people just go with the crowd to get all those5 stars)
3. BOTH missions I chose. and I emphasise it was random (well,I would have excluded any blatant ALERT THIS SUCKS titles) had

a) no story whatsoever
b) full of typos
c) appalling, or non existant dialogue
d) no imagination whatsoever

one had a custom group that I coudhave knocked up in 5 minutes, the other, just CoT

In short, I gave out my first two "one star" votes.


Yes sir, the voting system is competely useless at the moment.


If I want a good arc, I will ask on MA channel, or if browsing, I have found 4 stars is usually far superior to 5 stars

Im sure a fair number of "Ive been ganked" complaints are a resut over over-inflated ego.

But Iv'e seen others arcs that have been ganked. Arcs that I could beleive a 3 star vote, swallow a 2 star vote, but are clearly polished enough to get above 1 star.

It may be that these votes are simply by trigger happy 1 starrers. But in reality the dividing line between this and ganking is very blurred indeed.

PRAF is right. I ignore star votes at the moment* I go by personal recommendation (of arcs other than the players) and by titles (at the moment I prefer custom mobs, longer arcs, no ninjas). Anything that would not appeal to me (challenge missions, ninnjas, farms) I would not play, and if dragged on one, wouldnt vote either (As its not my cup of tea, I cant really pass comment).

*Actually I dont ignore. 4 star missions are actually slightly better (on average) than 5 star ones at the moment, for some reason; at least for those with votes 20 or less. [But the number of 5 star arcs with more than 20 votes is very slender].

[ QUOTE ]
MA will end up appealing only to farmers. That's basically it. Farmers by their very nature simply grind and don't get involved in story or character/game immersion.


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I for one absolutely despise farming. Despise it. And MA can only be summed up by me as:

Best. Issue. Ever.

I know im not alone. The MA channel is full of great people just doing missions and passing recommendations, feedback etc. For me, MA is the very antithesis of farming.

I know farmers are trying to use it. But I can assure you that MA is not ony appealig to farmeres

We all have our priorities about where resources go in the game. I get annoyed everyy time resources are spent on PvP given how smashed it is and how few people PvP. And at least one issue was pretty much PvP only.

[ QUOTE ]
5/5 - for those that I want to be HoF
4/5 - for those that I would not object if they were to get a HoF
3/5 or lower - ...everything else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know what? This is the best advice on how to vote. Ive been using this testing arcs to day and suddenly all my dilemas have been solved!

Id probably add 3/5 for stories I liked but wouldnt like to see clogging up the Devs Choice, 2/5 for a passable standard and 1/5 for crud.

Using this, my rating system has suddenly become clear.

I salute you sir!

Id go with what Xem said, and add in the TV arc too.

Id probaby add the end game TFs, but thats unfair competition, as they have knobs and dials on that MA writers never have access too.

I actualy pretty much agree with you,Mr J. However, I at this point I was left with a vote which was presumably 5,5,5,5,5,5,1

Now, I *know* my arc is a marmite arc, and its had negative critique before. I also om of the veiw that it is hovering between 4 and 5 stars in my OWN head, so, I'm not thinking its uber or anything.

I am also pretty certain there is nothing that would cause ragequit on the first mission (at least).

Also, dueto immense help from the community, its polished. Proofread three times, every bio done, clues, all the "pollish" has been done.

And im left with 5,5,5,5,5,5,1. My conclusions are:

I know I will ignore the one, particuarly as I got no feedback. I also accept its a marmite arc.

It is highly likely, but not absolutely certain, that the voter got a pet peeve out of something. Thats fine. Not something I would give a 1 star for, but thats their choice I guess.

On the balance of probabilities, I see this as a gank vote. It may not be, it may be.

If I had something like 5,4,4,5,4,2 I would be fair more inclined to say, hold on, its not a good as I thought.

End of day, we have to interpret our results as we see fit. The problem with the voting system as it stands is that it can get mucked up by outliers, positive and negative.

As others have said, marmite arcs particularly suffer. There is a world of difference between ann arc cruising around 3 stars consistently, and one which scores half 1 and half 5.

Irrespective of my arcs, I know others who have almost certainly been ganked (I guess mine was around a 60% probability).

Im ay have completely missed the boat, there maybe people who are just trigger happy with a 1 star vote - personally, just a 5 stars needs to be stand out good, 1 star needs to be stand out bad. Trigger happy 1 starrers dont really help the system, however, at least in the early days.

Im interested to know what people reserve a 1 star for

Well my m aths may be weak, but if I got 6 votes of 5 stars (uhnless peoples feedback was a lie), to drop down to 4 stars on the fifth vote can only be a 1 star vote?

Now, Ive no problem with people voting me 3 stars, or even 2. They didnt like it, wasnt for them, no problem.

But a 1 vote? Have you seen the dross out there. Im n ot absolutely *certain* it was a gank vote, but im pretty suspicious.

tbh im not really that bothered or upset. I treat it as a gank vote. If someone had sent me feedback saying "sorry, i didnt like you arc for these reasons" and gave me 2 stars - I would have listened.

It wasnt a fifth of people thinking my arc was below average (im fine with that. Hey, im fine with half thinking that), its 1/7 (or about 1/10 now) saying my arc was rubbish (not below average, but plain rubbish) when everyone else is giving it 4 or 5 stars.

I just ignore outliers. Perhaps im being paranoid, but on the balance of probabilities, I see that as a gank vote.

I have seen even clearer evidence of gank voting on other peoples arcs, as well. Its particuarly nasty to gank vote an unrating arc (as I am almost certain happenedto Bovine Avengers arc).

I know everybodies tastes are different, but there are some well done, polished arcs that nobody in their right mind can give a 1 star vote for, even if its not to their taste. Or am I being unreasonable?

Personally, if I see a polished arc with something I dont like, I wouldnt give it 1 star. I would probably not rate with the veiw "Hey, I can see this is well execited, but my personal preferences mean I cant fairy vote on this".

EDIT: PS with regards to initial votes, I havent got my SG members to vote for arc in question yet, and only one freind has so far.

Its a litte early to tell how this will pan out atm, but I share your concerns about ratings and the HoF.

As it stands, I will wait to see how things go. The ratings at the moment are plagued with "my freinds gave me 5"(I have played a lot of 5 star arcs that barely scrape a 3) and, unfortunately, evidence of much more ganking than I would have predicted (and im pretty cynical).

Im finding I will, on average, get a far bigger bang for my buck by a 4 star, 20 votes arc, than a 5 star 1-10 vote arc. FAR bigger.

As you say, once a lot of votes start coming in,it gets very very hard to stay in the5 star bracket. I even supsect the one of the main reasons they do is the "follow the group" mentality of voting.