I think their opinion is that it's ok, but in moderation - which is why they tweaked things like the dreck map and Family XP, but never actually put an entry level on PI.
The reason they're being so aggressive against farmers in the MA is because not only is it taking PLing to a new extreme, it's also messing up a new and special game mechanic, I think.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
The biggest effect felt by this particular QoL change is to stop NON-farmers from being annoyed and otherwise peeved by filling requests. So I for one can't really see what your issue is. People who want to set missions for higher numbers of players than they have are being done all the time, the only difference is that people who aren't farming are inconvenienced by filling or at least a request to fill.
I like this change as a player, casual farmer and fill request recipient.
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
I don't think it would have any perceptible effect on the markets. It certainly simplifies farming, but not to the extent that people who didn't and ats which shouldn't would rush to the farm maps as it was with the MA. And yea, no fill requests. Everybody wins.
They shoulda done this 1st then MA... Soloing (few in team) in villains from 1 to 30 atm mostly regular missions. Ive done some "farming", but its boring.. for me anyway. And im not a dentist so i dont do filling to myself or others.
I think this is good for all concerned. The farmers can do what they like and their impact on the game will be heavily reduced.
I can't see it having a huge impact on the markets, and if it gets them out of the MA that'll be a good thing!
Thelonious Monk
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is good for all concerned. The farmers can do what they like and their impact on the game will be heavily reduced.
I can't see it having a huge impact on the markets, and if it gets them out of the MA that'll be a good thing!
[/ QUOTE ]
I can see it having a large effect on the markets. Bringing the markets back to pre-MA levels of stock is not a bad thing. 
Every Issue..farming gets a moan
Every Patch..farming gets a moan
Someone wakes up in the morning....someone moans.
if people stop talking about farming..the less it gets out of hand.
Guys, I respectfully disagree.
These day and age, with the MA running on its fullest potential, people do like fighting +4 LTs, while sidekicked to 50. They (mostly) cannot do alone, and they need a full team to do it anyway. For farmers, that part of I16 is already here. That is, unless I am mistaken and farming is that much worse still (with a team of 5/7 just sitting on the side while a fire/ice tanker sweeps the floor).
Mind you, I still reckon the farming requests will remain as they were. This is because two simple reason - everyone thinks that a team of 6 produce much better XP, and everyone think that they can't solo a bunch of +4 LTs.
This issue is designed for us non-farmers and excitement-looking people. The one with a scrapper that wants to see how good he can get, and those dou folks who had enough of the current difficulity meter. Sadly, the farmers will still populate Atlas Park until they will be stopped.
@Double
Double Flame 50 fire/devices
Double Shade 50 tri-form warshade
Double Light 50 dwarf-human peacebringer
Double Control 50 earth/rad
[ QUOTE ]
sidefrom I 16 looking pretty good, I can help but noticing its farmers paradise.
Now, on the one hand, im VERY happy that this will mean the end of "Fill plz" requests, and MA may actually be used as intended.
But, its going to have an impact on themarkets. Who knows how much? I supsect inbetween trivial and devestating.
Personally, im getting very confused on the Devs attitude towards Farmers. If they really are going to give all the cream to them, as Issue 16 threatens, I know a lot of people who are going to be pretty upset (translation = lost subscribers, how many up for debate of course). I'm one of them forwhats it worth. To be honest, farmers/farming are, to me, the coffin nail in a game if they reach a critical mass.
Can anyone enlighten me what actually IS the vision of the devs with regards to farmers?
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, cream ? what cream? This is another [censored] off issue with nothing in if you dont care about the colour of imps.
I tell you what iv had out of the last 3 issues, 1 TF, 1 SF, They took a full 3 hours to do both, and a few decent MA farms.
Dont talk about cream.
If there was something new to do, i know a lot of farmers who would become ex farmers or at worst, part time farmers.
Moan about something decent, the devs added this so called QoL feature for people like you.
i think it will improve the Auction House - more normal missions means more regular salvage/recipes to stock up the markets and bring prices down to reasonable levels.
Brushing twice a day keeps the Strep.mutans at bay!
If you play on Defiant Server send a tell @Electro Kitty to join The Wonder League SG
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Personally, im getting very confused on the Devs attitude towards Farmers. [...]
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I suspect the Devs worry more about the fast and risk-free farming in the Mission Architect than some lone Scrapper slowly trying to clear a mission set for eight people. 
@Nanas (on Defiant)
I think I need to stop reading the forums...
All this bile and vitriol is getting me down 
It's. A. Game.
If people are getting this worked up about it, they need to take a hiatus, a holiday or break of some description.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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In retrospect I should have changed thread title.
The question is: Does anyone know what the Dev's "Vision" regarding farming is?
I ask in light of upcoming issue 16, which I think everyone agrees has profound implications for farmers.
(The argument abount farmers good/bad and market effects is probably for another thread).
I'm not going to impose my veiws on farming on everyone else, but I would like to know the philosophy of the game regarding farmers, because it will feed into the equation of how long I stay in it (and others too).
[ QUOTE ]
In retrospect I should have changed thread title.
The question is: Does anyone know what the Dev's "Vision" regarding farming is?
I ask in light of upcoming issue 16, which I think everyone agrees has profound implications for farmers.
(The argument abount farmers good/bad and market effects is probably for another thread).
I'm not going to impose my veiws on farming on everyone else, but I would like to know the philosophy of the game regarding farmers, because it will feed into the equation of how long I stay in it (and others too).
[/ QUOTE ]
If things are as bad as you portray, you are in the minority by not farming, so you might as well get your head round it.
Or start campaigning for a bit of content, so there is something new to do.
Edited by Avatea.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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/em rant
OH MY GAWD !!!! HERE WE GO AGAIN !
If your not a farmer it doesn't effect you !
Directed at the Original Poster,,
Sit Down you moaner!
moanmoan, you ask me to fill,
moanmoan, you won't be asking me to fill anymore
moanmoan, AuctionHouse prices
moanmoan, your using your paid time in game to do something that I don't agree with.
If it bothers you SO much how others spend their time in game perhaps you shouldn't be playing a game that interacts with other people, go get a playstation or something.
So basically what I'm saying,
Keep yer nose out !
/em rantover
[/ QUOTE ]
All fine and dandy, except it does affect non-farmers.
MA prices going up
Lack of normal teams
New players who have no idea to play (increased since MA farming started)
Cut content as the Devs try and halt farming (admitedly thats their fault more for not doing it right, but the cause is still the problem)
So, yes it does affect non-farmers.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, im getting very confused on the Devs attitude towards Farmers. [...]
[/ QUOTE ]
I suspect the Devs worry more about the fast and risk-free farming in the Mission Architect than some lone Scrapper slowly trying to clear a mission set for eight people.
[/ QUOTE ]
Slowly? 
My fire/dark scrapper will have something to say about that
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I believe it comes down to
Risk Vs Reward Vs Time spent
with standard farming the above applies the farmer (ignoring the door sitters for the moment) is at Risk (more so as he's facing mobs set for more than a single character) the problem arises from door sitters there not taking part so are at 0 risk and are probably off doing something else so are investing 0 time but are getting maximum reward the new system in i16 should hopefully reduce the door sitters while allowing the farmer to continue doing what he finds fun.
As to MA it was bad because it broke the formula (and still dose) because the risk to the farmer could be reduced to very low levels while the reward could be increased
I'm fairly casual about most stuff in the game. I use the markets, but I never have enough inf to buy stuff, so I just potter when my inventories get full. I don't use MA because it takes forever to try and write a mission and I want to play, not program. I don't farm because I like the arcs and the variety. I don't PvP because I suck at it. Lots of people do these things with varying degrees of skill and commitment, and that's their bag. I don't always get it, but I don't have to. We all pays our money and we all takes our choice.
But I do like to team. When I started playing this game - the first MMO I tried - the pick-up teaming was everything from horrific nightmares of unending stupidity and rudeness to glorious, addictive joy of joking, faceplanting, and larking about in a new and fascinating game.
I may be wrong, but the impression I get is that a very significant portion of the active players are in MA atm. Some are farming, some are not, but none of them is out there on the streets battling crime and making PuGs. I'm worried that by adding tools that make non-teaming more rewarding, the numbers of active, teaming strangers out "in the field" will dwindle to a much, much smaller number.
I'm not, of course, suggesting that players who want to solo should team (I say this because I know some people will respond as if I'm saying they should... ), but I am expressing a concern that this addition to the game at this time, when it's apparent to me recently that non-farming, "in the field" PuGs are so much thinner on the ground than ever before, seems... just peculiar.
[ QUOTE ]
MA prices going up
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I think you mean WW+BM prices, but farmers also create supply aswell. So it's not really a good excuse. Plus if prices are going up, you also get paid more from farmers for the drops that you get... so again, it's not a valid excuse although it is a popular gripe that non-farmers like to use. Shame it carries no weight.
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Lack of normal teams
[/ QUOTE ]
Again i think that you are getting confused with the difference between Powerlevelers and Farmers, Farming is a lvl 50 activity. Personally I don't join the new popular lowbie luitenant farm style things, and to be honest if I wasn't farming, I wouldn't be playing in a PuG team anyway i'd be in RV. So less farming does not mean your gonna get more teams.
[ QUOTE ]
New players who have no idea to play (increased since MA farming started)
[/ QUOTE ]
Granted this is annoying, but this is a product of Powerlevelers, not Farmers. I won't PL a toon that has not already got a 50. Purely due to the fact of the quoted statement. I'm not into nor condone nub 50's.
[ QUOTE ]
The one about the devs
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You seriously think that anti farmer developement is infringing on content release!? Most games you buy you get what you bought, it doesn't upgrade it's self as you play...
And your moaning about the rate of additional content!
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So, yes it does affect non-farmers.
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I'm sorry but I don't see how, nor will I stop defending the farming community.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
We don't know the full details yet, but am I the only one that thinks this could be a balanced solution?
MA created new levels of PLing which changed the game and to completely remove that kind of opportunity would upset some players. This change will stop fill requests while still giving ample opportunity for experienced players to progress quickly, it could actually hamper new players PLing, thus meaning that non-farmers will be happier with PLing perhaps being less visible. It could mean that MA will become a creative tool which was it's original idea.
The market argument is a moot point as I'm sure it will have an effect (maybe good?), but inf is easy to earn anyway.
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Its anonther FFFridayyyy FFFarmmmmming thread, gonna be a hot one!!!!
Can someone start the weekend power leveling one so we are good to go.
[ QUOTE ]
Now, on the one hand, im VERY happy that this will mean the end of "Fill plz" requests, and MA may actually be used as intended.
But, its going to have an impact on themarkets. Who knows how much? I supsect inbetween trivial and devestating.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you should be really happy. You get rid of something that annoys/irritates you and there will be an unknown effect on something that isn't needed in any way shape or form.
Surely it only really has any negative impact if you really, really need those specific sets (purples)... Otherwise higher prices in the CH mean that you make money when you sell off the surplus recipes/salvage - easily enough money to fund your SOs/CIOs.
I've a few purples (not yet slotted) that have dropped for me, but past that I know that purples (and Numina's/LotGs etc) aren't needed to play the game (PvE anyway) and so I've never worried about them. The devs stated that they would be very, very rare (they're probably more common than the devs suggested) and so it was always a road to nowhere pinning hopes/enjoyment upon getting specific sets of them...
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, im getting very confused on the Devs attitude towards Farmers. If they really are going to give all the cream to them, as Issue 16 threatens, I know a lot of people who are going to be pretty upset (translation = lost subscribers, how many up for debate of course). I'm one of them forwhats it worth. To be honest, farmers/farming are, to me, the coffin nail in a game if they reach a critical mass.
Can anyone enlighten me what actually IS the vision of the devs with regards to farmers?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's only giving all the cream to farmers if you can't see the other uses of the tools provided, and other intended uses.
Your argument is a bit like me stating that kitchen knives are giving the cream to muggers and murderers - they don't. They're created for use in a kitchen preparing food - the fact that they may be used in ways not intended by the manufacturers/developers doesn't mean that they have really been developed for the undesirable use.
My guess would be that the devs don't mind anything as long as it isn't detrimental to the long term successs/life of the game (and, therefore, to the enjoyment of the majority of the playerbase). I don't think they have a philosophical objection (or approval) to farming or PLing within the accepted risk/reward limits, but when activities step outside these limits they can cause gain undue popularity (in some circles) and cause some in-game instability.
So farming (as in resetting maps or running the same map repeatedly) is (probably) generally fine. The players still need to defeat a number of enemies at 'risk' to themselves for the standard rewards. It's not so far off running any other missions - just that some farmers will pick and chose mobs/maps to suit their character.
But that's not far off non-farm teams avoiding mobs that don't suit them. So we've all done similar when we avoided the CoT arc/mission because we hated CoT... what we usually meant was 'we hate CoT becuase they are hard for this character'.
PLing at the rate that they used to see is (probably) generally fine. As long as real money doesn't change hands, it's still people defeating a number of enemies at 'risk' to themselves for the standard rewards. Again, not so far off running any other missions.
Farming an exploit (usually in the MA) is unacceptable as allowing any progress/rewards for little or no risk means that some players will grab as much as they can as quick as they can. This can lead to:
* Destabilisation of the game markets, with a sudden boost of enormous amounts of (unearned) INF that can leave players who didn't abuse the exploit at a serious disadvantage. Players disadvantaged this way can feel aggrieved and leave the game: bad for game longevity.
* Players who know nothing but the exploit farming may quickly bore of the game that they percive as 'far too easy' and leave.
Exploitative farming can also leave non-farmers upset that 'their game' is being ruined - whilst some farmers might say 'tough', unhappy players eventually stop being subscribers.
The devs game is to keep as many people as happy as possible so that they keep paying and the game is succesfully (and so too are the dev's careers).
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
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I think this will be a good change to the game. In theory farmers can now farm without the need to have a team. This means that there will be far less clueless players PL'd to 50 as the farmers simply wont need them.
sidefrom I 16 looking pretty good, I can help but noticing its farmers paradise.
Now, on the one hand, im VERY happy that this will mean the end of "Fill plz" requests, and MA may actually be used as intended.
But, its going to have an impact on themarkets. Who knows how much? I supsect inbetween trivial and devestating.
Personally, im getting very confused on the Devs attitude towards Farmers. If they really are going to give all the cream to them, as Issue 16 threatens, I know a lot of people who are going to be pretty upset (translation = lost subscribers, how many up for debate of course). I'm one of them forwhats it worth. To be honest, farmers/farming are, to me, the coffin nail in a game if they reach a critical mass.
Can anyone enlighten me what actually IS the vision of the devs with regards to farmers?