Dev created arcs couldn't get into HoF...

Judgement_Dave · 04-11-2009 01:26 PM

In another thread, I stated the following:
I do not believe that any pre-I14 dev-created arc would rate well enough to surpass the Hall of Fame criteria if people voted on them with the same voting patterns and expectations that they are applying to player created MA arcs.

You can check the other thread for why I say this, it's mainly down to the HoF criteria but also partly down to people's voting patterns.

So I didn't want to derail the thread in the MA section, but want to ask:

Am I wrong?
If so - which dev-created arcs would make it?

Please tell me so we can see if anyone disagrees with suggested HoF dev-arcs... we don't need many to dislike an arc to stop it being HoF...

And btw don't be fooled by apparent high ratings for the new faultline arcs - you'll notice that they may rate highly but only have a few ratings... I'm pretty sure that War Witch made the arcs then got the other 14 devs to vote them up.

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CactusBrawler · 04-11-2009 01:51 PM

Any of the hero side Task forces for one :P

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

Judgement_Dave · 04-11-2009 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Any of the hero side Task forces for one :P

[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt that.

I was talking arcs not TFs/SFs/trials - and in the linked thread I stated that 3 or 4 of these might make it.

But I seriously doubt that 'Any of CoH TFs' would...

Positron and SSTF1 are still pretty much hated as far as I can tell. It's just the badges/TFC and the boost to the merit reward that bribes people into doing them.

I hear some people curse Synapse and Citadel as nearly as boring as Posi...

There are good trials and TFs/SFs - but even with these there are some duffers.

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
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Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

EU_Damz · 04-11-2009 02:42 PM

Magic man arc - a LOT of people like this arc and the ending is still the best iv seen ingame. I still laugh at it now!

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The_Phantoms_EU · 04-11-2009 02:53 PM

Probably those emotional CoV arcs (Wretch, Westin Phipps etc).

CactusBrawler · 04-11-2009 02:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any of the hero side Task forces for one :P

[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt that.

I was talking arcs not TFs/SFs/trials - and in the linked thread I stated that 3 or 4 of these might make it.

But I seriously doubt that 'Any of CoH TFs' would...

Positron and SSTF1 are still pretty much hated as far as I can tell. It's just the badges/TFC and the boost to the merit reward that bribes people into doing them.

I hear some people curse Synapse and Citadel as nearly as boring as Posi...

There are good trials and TFs/SFs - but even with these there are some duffers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I misread what you were asking as wouldn't make it.

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

Xemulas · 04-11-2009 03:06 PM

Viridian's arc
Seer Marino's arc
Von Grun's arc

The first is a fantastic challenge, with a brilliant final mission
The Latter two are superbly written

Anything pre new-faultline in CoH = 3 stars or less, the above mentioned are 5 stars, imo

Cognito · 04-11-2009 03:39 PM

Id go with what Xem said, and add in the TV arc too.

Id probaby add the end game TFs, but thats unfair competition, as they have knobs and dials on that MA writers never have access too.

Tangler · 04-11-2009 03:54 PM

I'd also throw in Automatic Villainy , with Tech Naylor.

A Penny For Your Thoughts #348691 <- Dev's Choice'd by Dr. Aeon!
Submit your MA arc for review & my arcs thread

Xemulas · 04-11-2009 03:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd also throw in Automatic Villainy , with Tech Naylor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh Absolutely! 5 star and a long gleeful comment to the 'author' of that one :P

It honestly made me doubt the ingame lore. Really does show how a little bit of creativity in the text fields can make "Defeat X" and "collect X" strung together so emotive and memorable!

Cybercel · 04-11-2009 04:19 PM

Adding to a number of good villain-side arcs already mentioned, I'd say the Slot Machine's arc and Doc Buzzsaw's arc, of the top of my head. Quite like Jonny Sonata, too.

I'd probably give pretty decent ratings for at least some of the RWZ stuff and Faultline, but there are some tricks used in those we don't have access to.

Arctic_Princess · 04-12-2009 02:38 AM

Westin Phipps - 'nuff said. A truly villainous arc. I also quite liked Psimon Omega's attempts to drain Aurora Borealis's brain. But Westin would come out trumps every time for me.

GrinningSpade · 04-12-2009 05:22 AM

Most of the villain arcs are excellent imo. Most of those would fall into the 4 star section or better.

Including Kalinda and Burke. We only truly hate those because we did them to often.

In the list above I did not see Radio Free Opportunity, Marsall Brass with the PTS (THE tm mark about Cap au Diablo) and where are the excellent arcs Form St Martial? I found the ones based on the Golden Giza to be fine as well.

Judgement_Dave · 04-12-2009 05:58 AM

I'm sure that you all realise that I'm mainly playing devils advocate, there are some great dev created arcs (and if I didn't think so then maybe I've been playing the wrong game the past 3 years).

But whilst all these mentioned arcs are very good to excellent... I'm still not certain that they'd make the Hall of Fame if people voted on them with the same voting patterns and expectations that they are applying to player created MA arcs.

Just now I feel that if the great dev arcs were submitted they'd still get people marking them down. Maybe we should look at the comments being posted in feedback to the devs:

Tech Naylor - WHY U PUT DOOR THERE? (yes we don't have this in MA, but if we did get to place doors you can bet you'd never gain points for door placement, but would easily lose a point or more with some people if you stuck the door in an outlying spot).

Westin Phipps - too evil. I play to be vilainous, not a vilain. (I love this arc - but I bet some people would mark it down for being too villainous... conversely some people would mark down most of the CoV arcs for not being villainous enough for feeling like a lackey rather than 'your-own-villain').

Faultline arcs - too hard to solo - too many AVs. Did the authors just create and throw in AVs because they could?

Faultline arcs - too easy for me - too many allies made bosses trivial. Did the authors just create and throw in Allies because they could?

Efficiency Expert arc - wth? Why the time limits???

And if we treated the dev-created standard mobs as custom, most of them have pretty poor info that isn't anyway near as good as many custom mobs used for new groups... And the named bosses often don't have unique info (in fact it sometimes appears to be for the wrong mob type iirc). In a player created arc I would find this lazy and potentially detrimental to the score.

And the people marking down straight away for spelling mistakes and poor grammar should see the number of typos I've /bugged in the past on dev arcs - and I've never noticed a single one get altered. (iirc there's still errors on the 'info' for Hero-1s cape in the CoH cape mission and in Statesman's own info in IP[/i]) So, according to some peoples previously stated guidelines for their ratings, those arcs would lose 1 point due to language imperfections.

And using current standards of ratings, it wouldn't surprise me if some dev arcs/missions got marked down for: repeated hunts, being too long, being too farmable, not being farmable enough, being too hard, being too easy, featuring rikti/CoT/council in a cave, etc etc

So I come back to this: These are great arcs, but I still believe that if people voted on them with the same voting patterns and expectations that they are applying to player created MA arcs then they would not make it into the Hall of Fame.

Peoples voting is expecting (pretty-much) perfection for a 5, and given different expectations and standards no single arc can ever be perfect to all - and I believe they'll find it very hard to 'be perfect-enough' to enough people without being crud to too many people to scupper any hopes of HoF.

BTW - it is interesting to note how virtually all suggested arcs are CoV (with the notable exception of the new Faultline arcs).

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

Overconfidence · 04-12-2009 07:38 AM

While I agree that most of the dev material is 4-star at best I'm not sure that's a reason to criticise the HoF requirements. The devs want the award to mean something so they have to be strict. Too leniant and their 'Hall of Fame' becomes their 'House of Mediocrity'. I14 has only been live for 5 days and there's already one 5-star non-dev-choice arc with over 500 votes - over half way there.

I think it's too early to be worried about this. The devs want this to work so if they eventually see that no-one is making it past the finishing line they will lower the requirements, but they'll give it a fair run first which means at least a few months datamining.

[ QUOTE ]
Peoples voting is expecting (pretty-much) perfection for a 5

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm also not sure this actually jibes with the scores I'm seeing on live. Is every 5-star arc you've played 'perfect'?

"If there's anything worse than being sacrificed, it's being sacrificed incompetantly."

Overconfidence · 04-12-2009 07:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW - it is interesting to note how virtually all suggested arcs are CoV (with the notable exception of the new Faultline arcs).

[/ QUOTE ]
Confirmation that their new writing is better than the old. I think you could include the Ourobouros 'TF' arcs as well.

"If there's anything worse than being sacrificed, it's being sacrificed incompetantly."

Chatarsis · 04-12-2009 07:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Westin Phipps - 'nuff said. A truly villainous arc. I also quite liked Psimon Omega's attempts to drain Aurora Borealis's brain. But Westin would come out trumps every time for me.

[/ QUOTE ]
The real reason why Westin Phipps arc is evil is because it is so heavily breaking copyright.
Thats evil in NCsofts eyes anyway.

And no arc thats made with copyrighted material should be near the HoF.

Tangler · 04-12-2009 07:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW - it is interesting to note how virtually all suggested arcs are CoV (with the notable exception of the new Faultline arcs).

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it just shows the dev writers improving over time. I liked the Malta arc with Indigo, but like a lot of the early stuff it suffers from being way too long.

A Penny For Your Thoughts #348691 <- Dev's Choice'd by Dr. Aeon!
Submit your MA arc for review & my arcs thread

GrinningSpade · 04-12-2009 09:31 AM

I think I have to agree with JD here though. A lot of the newer devs arca are great. But there are a lot of complainers out there and you cannot please everybody. And a few 1's make it very hard to keep on that 5 if not downright near impossible.

In fact. I dare the devs to try with an unknown name.