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I dont think most players agree with the devs that the aoes of various brute primaries have been cut down in range and radius.
Why nerf the radius of medicore attacks while leaving the best pbaoe with the biggest radius : Footstomp , untouched ?
Maybe someone can explain to me why those aoes with small radius to start with and no secondary effects to speak of needed nerfing while Footstomp seems to be ok for the devs ?
All in patch notes of today.
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They werent "nerfed". In an earlier patch all of the AoEs had their radiuses inadvertently increased and this patch just corrected them.
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They have smaller radius now than several months ago.
Even if the had unintended buff last patch and they toned it down, they toned them down more than they were before.
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I dont think most players agree with the devs that the aoes of various brute primaries have been cut down in range and radius.
Why nerf the radius of medicore attacks while leaving the best pbaoe with the biggest radius : Footstomp , untouched ?
Maybe someone can explain to me why those aoes with small radius to start with and no secondary effects to speak of needed nerfing while Footstomp seems to be ok for the devs ?
All in patch notes of today.
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Well maybe its because foot stomps a teir9 and there for considered a bit special?
i know lets compare it to another AoE tier 9
Foot stomp Lightning Rod win
end cost 18.5 13.5 LR
recharge 20s 90s FS
range 0 60 LR
cast 2.1s 2.57 FS
accuracy 75% 75% -
duration 13.5 4s FS
radius 15 20 LR
KB 0.67(tgt) 0.64 (tgt) FS
taunt 13.5 (tgt) 0 FS
damage 59.2 (smashing) 133.5 (energy) LR
teleport 0 1 LR
so which is better we can ignore the taunt you would think on one hand you have foot stomp which has a quick recharge and a quick cast time so can be used several time in a fight on the other hand you have lightning rod which has a marginally longer cast time and a recharge 3 times as long as foot stomp but you can use it from range effectively allowing you to negate a alpha strike something foot stomp dose not do as you must be within the mob to use it.
also lightning rod dose 133.5 energy damage compared to 59.2 that smashing dose so not only dose lightning rod do double the damage of foot stomp its also less resisted so more of its going to get thru.
so one really is no better than the other in my opinion both have advantages as well as disadvantages.
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does not supply +regen to knockdown foes.
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Currently impossible in the CoX engine, since it's can't check for status effects already on targets. KD would be especially difficult since the effect of the KD persists after the status effect has offcially worn off.
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cost of the attack halves all +recovery buffs for [x] seconds as it takes so much out of you (Specific to Will Power and anyone with Stamina: I.e. all brutes)
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Strength of Will causes such focus that you ignore all +damage and damage debuffs
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Thus nullifying fury, and affecting all brutes equally.
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Just examples that don't work
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All that asside, what particular synagy are you trying to counter here? There are no specific WP powers that work better in conjunction with SS, and there are no SS powers that work better in conjunction with WP.
Now SS/SR is a scary combo, but not as scary as DM/SR...
I really should do something about this signature.
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I dont think most players agree with the devs that the aoes of various brute primaries have been cut down in range and radius.
Why nerf the radius of medicore attacks while leaving the best pbaoe with the biggest radius : Footstomp , untouched ?
Maybe someone can explain to me why those aoes with small radius to start with and no secondary effects to speak of needed nerfing while Footstomp seems to be ok for the devs ?
All in patch notes of today.
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They werent "nerfed". In an earlier patch all of the AoEs had their radiuses inadvertently increased and this patch just corrected them.
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They have smaller radius now than several months ago.
Even if the had unintended buff last patch and they toned it down, they toned them down more than they were before.
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Rubbish. "Several months ago" most of those powers had a 5' radius. A couple had a 7' radius. The WM one used to have a 10' radius, but it was changed from a very narrow arc to a wide arc, significantly increasing the area affected.
I really should do something about this signature.
I was just using my examples to show you can target specific combinations, I wasnt proposing they were actually implemented. I thought those up in about 2 nanoseconds for the purposes of showing what you could do. Im sure more elegant solutions could be thought off.
For instance, taking one example, Strength of Will could ignore buffs or debuffs to damage WITH THE EXCEPTION OF RAGE.
But all this is irrelevant. I dont propose any of the above are actually implemented.Im not even conviced SS/WP needs a nerf myself. I am just counterinng the blanket and frankly ridiculous proposal that you cant nerf (or indeed buff) specific set comibnations. If they have a particularly good or bad synergy, then that synergy can be altered. Maybe not easily, maybe not well, but to say under no circusmtances can it ever be acheived for any combination is just plain and evidently wrong.
"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long....and you have burned so very brightly!"
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I was just using my examples to show you can target specific combinations, I wasnt proposing they were actually implemented.
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What you actually did is demonstrate very effectively why it is difficult to just target specific combinations.
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Strength of Will could ignore buffs or debuffs to damage WITH THE EXCEPTION OF RAGE.
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Again, you are rewriting the whole game engine in order to address a minor (and completely imaginary) problem. As far as the game engine is concered a damage buff is a damage buff, it doesn't keep track of where they come from.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I was just using my examples to show you can target specific combinations, I wasnt proposing they were actually implemented.
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What you actually did is demonstrate very effectively why it is difficult to just target specific combinations.
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Strength of Will could ignore buffs or debuffs to damage WITH THE EXCEPTION OF RAGE.
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Again, you are rewriting the whole game engine in order to address a minor (and completely imaginary) problem. As far as the game engine is concered a damage buff is a damage buff, it doesn't keep track of where they come from.
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I never said it was easy, I never said it should be done. I said it was POSSIBLE.
Im quite open to debate about how much resources should be put into game balancing (as it happens, a small amount in my opinion), and the most efficient way of doing so (as it happens, generally to look at sets individually)
I AM SIMPLY SAYING IT IS POSSIBLE TO MAKE CHANGES THAT SPECIFICALLY AFFECT (POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY) TO SPECIFIC COMBINATIONS MORE THAN OTHERS.
Is anyone seriously opposing this statement? You are actually prepared to argue that it is BLANKET IMPOSSIBLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TO MAKE ANY CHANGES WHATSOEVER THAT AFFECT A SET EQUALLY IRRESPECTIVE OF ITS COMBINATION.
INstead of me defending, what is actually a laughably easy proposition (which I have done), why dont people actually try and defend the opposing ludicrious position.
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I never said it should be done.
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Why bring it up in the first place then?
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I said it was POSSIBLE.
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Sure, anything is possible with suffcient allocation of developer resources.
I believe people where saying it was impossible in the same way Power Customisation is impossible. sure, you could do it, but it would be a massive effort for a (debatably) minimal benefit.
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INstead of me defending, what is actually a laughably easy proposition
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You are here defending the ludicrious proposition that SS/WP brutes need to be nerfed. You need to begin making that case first.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I was just using my examples to show you can target specific combinations, I wasnt proposing they were actually implemented.
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What you actually did is demonstrate very effectively why it is difficult to just target specific combinations.
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Strength of Will could ignore buffs or debuffs to damage WITH THE EXCEPTION OF RAGE.
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Again, you are rewriting the whole game engine in order to address a minor (and completely imaginary) problem. As far as the game engine is concered a damage buff is a damage buff, it doesn't keep track of where they come from.
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I never said it was easy, I never said it should be done. I said it was POSSIBLE.
Im quite open to debate about how much resources should be put into game balancing (as it happens, a small amount in my opinion), and the most efficient way of doing so (as it happens, generally to look at sets individually)
I AM SIMPLY SAYING IT IS POSSIBLE TO MAKE CHANGES THAT SPECIFICALLY AFFECT (POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY) TO SPECIFIC COMBINATIONS MORE THAN OTHERS.
Is anyone seriously opposing this statement? You are actually prepared to argue that it is BLANKET IMPOSSIBLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TO MAKE ANY CHANGES WHATSOEVER THAT AFFECT A SET EQUALLY IRRESPECTIVE OF ITS COMBINATION.
INstead of me defending, what is actually a laughably easy proposition (which I have done), why dont people actually try and defend the opposing ludicrious position.
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No one needs to defend anything, you started the thread, people just need to say why they dont agree with you.
Just tell me why it bothers you so much that some combo's perform well. How is that in any way detrimental to your game?
It's your farming rant all over again with another topic aint it, these things dont kill games, stopping people doing what they want kills games.
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It's your farming rant all over again with another topic aint it, these things dont kill games, stopping people doing what they want kills games.
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^This.
Wow, I just agreed with Londoner. AWESOME! 
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
Actually, Cognito didn't start this thread, he just rather foolishy chose to attach his argument in favour of nerfs to a ridiculous thread calling for a nerf to something that most people can see quite obviously doesn't need nerfing.
I suspect you are right, this is just an extension of a nerf Fire/Kin rant.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I dont think most players agree with the devs that the aoes of various brute primaries have been cut down in range and radius.
Why nerf the radius of medicore attacks while leaving the best pbaoe with the biggest radius : Footstomp , untouched ?
Maybe someone can explain to me why those aoes with small radius to start with and no secondary effects to speak of needed nerfing while Footstomp seems to be ok for the devs ?
All in patch notes of today.
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Well maybe its because foot stomps a teir9 and there for considered a bit special?
i know lets compare it to another AoE tier 9
Foot stomp Lightning Rod win
end cost 18.5 13.5 LR
recharge 20s 90s FS
range 0 60 LR
cast 2.1s 2.57 FS
accuracy 75% 75% -
duration 13.5 4s FS
radius 15 20 LR
KB 0.67(tgt) 0.64 (tgt) FS
taunt 13.5 (tgt) 0 FS
damage 59.2 (smashing) 133.5 (energy) LR
teleport 0 1 LR
so which is better we can ignore the taunt you would think on one hand you have foot stomp which has a quick recharge and a quick cast time so can be used several time in a fight on the other hand you have lightning rod which has a marginally longer cast time and a recharge 3 times as long as foot stomp but you can use it from range effectively allowing you to negate a alpha strike something foot stomp dose not do as you must be within the mob to use it.
also lightning rod dose 133.5 energy damage compared to 59.2 that smashing dose so not only dose lightning rod do double the damage of foot stomp its also less resisted so more of its going to get thru.
so one really is no better than the other in my opinion both have advantages as well as disadvantages.
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You forget to include Rage in Footstomp damg didnt you ? :-)
Or double stacked rage, which isnt really hard to achieve at least for several seconds without spending billions of inf on the char.
What i really dont understand is , how ppl can actually deny that SS/Wp is performing better than any other brute combos in almost every situation.....
Show me a char WITHOUT bilions spent on sets, who can farm maps or kill 8 player spawns with almost no risk in a very short time solo.
While dealing St damg that is on par with sets that have no aoes and rely on ST mostly.
But i suppose the 15 ss/WP out of 20 brutes in Gv yesterday evening just roll this combo cause it looks cool :-)
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You forget to include Rage in Footstomp damg didnt you ? :-)
Or double stacked rage, which isnt really hard to achieve at least for several seconds without spending billions of inf on the char.
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Then include Build up for Lightning Rod too.
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Show me a char WITHOUT bilions spent on sets, who can farm maps or kill 8 player spawns with almost no risk in a very short time solo.
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From personal experience.
Dual Blade/Willpower
Claws/Regen
Broadsword/Shield
Elec melee/Shield
Each of those have some powerful AoE and can take down 8-man spawn group. Elec/shield being the one who does it quickest.
Yep. It's called synergy.
Fire/Kins just happen to bring a glorious synergy of powers together that makes them potentially insane damage-dealing and farming tools. However, nerf Fire, and you nerf Fire/Emps. Nerf Kin and you nerf Earth/Kins.
The same thing happens here. It's an accident of intended design that some sets combined are simply better than other sets combined, and it is normal.
In Monopoly, having Park Lane and Mayfair synergises into a potentially game-winning combination. Other options exist, but none are quite as efficient.
In Dungeons and Dragons, a party with a Fighter, a Rogue, a Cleric and a Wizard synergises into something that can deal with any encounter. Other options exist, but none are quite as efficient.
There is less need to nerf the specific powersets in question, when it is intelligent use of the options that actually causes them to work so well together, than there is to ensure that the combined benefits of those powersets with the other powerset options is just as good, all round. This can be achieved by tweaking secondary effects and so forth.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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Actually, Cognito didn't start this thread, he just rather foolishy chose to attach his argument in favour of nerfs to a ridiculous thread calling for a nerf to something that most people can see quite obviously doesn't need nerfing.
I suspect you are right, this is just an extension of a nerf Fire/Kin rant.
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I was foolish, yes. I have wouldnt argue that SS/WP needs nerfing. I would like devs to examine WP, but I dont advocate any buffs or nerfs to a set without a close look.
However, a few people have made a blanket statement "It is absolutely impossible to target any combination under any circumstance"
Actually PRAF, we are in complete agreement!, we agree its possible, we agree its a lot of resources. (Unless people come up with constructive ideas).
If people wish to modify their statements "Its too much resources to do the complex task of specific nerfs/buffs to specific combinations", then I would totally accept that.
Since it's easy for teamed brutes to reach the damage cap with a few kinetics around damage buffs from rage are fairly irrelavant unless soloing.
Rage only works of base damage, which for a brute is low, 0.8 I think, so +80% of not very much is still not very much. Fury is still the main contributer to brute damage.
Now, if you where to have stacked rage of a hypothetical SS scrapper I would agree that it was overpowered.
I really should do something about this signature.
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There was no patch note today
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There's one now, a bug fix.
just to persuade people im actually a positive person!
OI, DEVS! IM ALLOWED TO PLEAD FOR SPECIFIC BUFFS!!!
Psionic Blast for Blasters! Come on! More damage!!!
Trick Archery! Give it some [censored] -regen!!!
Jump Kick!!! What on Earth!!! Make it remotely viable!!!
(lots of o thers but those just sprung out!)
SHOCK HORROR! COGNITO WANTS BUFFS!!!!
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Since it's easy for teamed brutes to reach the damage cap with a few kinetics around damage buffs from rage are fairly irrelavant unless soloing.
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Cause there are always a "few" kinetics in a team.....
To say Rage is irrelevant in a team is just absurd.
Does anyone disagree that Rage is the best buff of all brute primaries ?
Does anyone disagree that Footstomp is the best aoe of all brute primaries?
Does anyone disagree that KoB is one of the best ST atackks with great secondary effects of all brute prmiaries ?
If you disagree, show me where i am wrong pls
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Does anyone disagree that Rage is the best buff of all brute primaries ?
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Yes. Crash is horrible.
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Does anyone disagree that Footstomp is the best aoe of all brute primaries?
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Yes. Lighting Rod is better. Some of the toggle auras are better too (e.g. fire/fire).
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Does anyone disagree that KoB is one of the best ST atackks with great secondary effects of all brute prmiaries ?
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Yep, Smashing damage, everything resists that, and the secondary effects are usless against AVs.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Does anyone disagree that Rage is the best buff of all brute primaries ?
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Yep, id rather have build up any day, no crash.
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Does anyone disagree that KoB is one of the best ST atackks with great secondary effects of all brute prmiaries ?
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Yea its one of them, its no better than a couple of others though.
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Does anyone disagree that Rage is the best buff of all brute primaries ?
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Yes.
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Does anyone disagree that Footstomp is the best aoe of all brute primaries?
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Yes. Lighting Rod is better. Some of the toggle auras are better too.
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Does anyone disagree that KoB is one of the best ST atackks with great secondary effects of all brute prmiaries ?
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Yep, Smashing damage, everything resists that, and the secondary effects are usless against AVs.
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Explain your statements ?
Rages dmg buff more than makes up for the smashing resists mobs have.
Lethal sets dont have a Rage dmg buff and lethal is even more resisted.
Other smashing sets dont have rage dmg buff.....
Lr is on a 90 sec recharge and FS on a 20 sec recharge, that means i can FS THREE times while only use LR ONCE.
Thats way more dmg in 90 sec that Lr can ever deal.
Plus Fs is a aoe knockdown every 8 secs which is crazy damg migitaion...
Which buff is better than RAGE ?
Primaries and toggle auras ? Pls feel free to name a few :-)
Btw almost every elemental attack has a smashing or lethal component in it.
How does the carsh matter , if any team got a "few" kins in it ? :-)
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Rages dmg buff more than makes up for the smashing resists mobs have.
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Not when you also figure in your other damage buffs from enhancements and fury (rage = +80%, enhancments = +95%, fury maybe an avarage of +100%).
And then Rage crashes, and you suck.
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Lethal sets dont have a Rage dmg buff and lethal is even more resisted.
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Yeah. lethal sucks. Doesn't make SS good though.
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that means i can FS THREE times while only use LR ONCE.
Thats 3 times the damg LR can deal.
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-20% smashing resist, and completly ignoring the possibility of recharge buffs and the advanatage of a ranged attack.
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Which buff is better than RAGE ?
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Build Up (no crash)
Sould Drain
Against All Odds (perma out of the box)
Firey Embrace (when combined with fire primary).
Fairly irrelevant, as it appears you like SS.
This is a good argument: Nerf SS because Moghedian likes it.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Rise to the Challenge gets aggro/taunt buff, but does not supply +regen to knockdown foes. (Less accurate, but spares Fire Melee, Dark Melee, Energy Melee, and minimal effect on Mace)
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Pretty big nerf to Dual blades tho.