[ QUOTE ]
A point that people overlook is WP is the worst aggro holding ability of any defense set - which on a brute hurts damage, as well as the usefulness of the brute to the team.
And SS is pure smashing damge, which is resisted by many mobs.
SS/WP is fotm at the moment because people think it's better, but they are not taking all the factors into acount.
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Rage and specifically double stacked rage is more than enough to do more damg to even heavily smashing resistant mobs than less resisted damg types.
As far as holding agro goes, who needs them ?
Brute runs in FS gets agro, FS dead mobs, there is no need for taunt aura at all.
Energy, SR and shield got no dmg auras either.
Pure taunt auras dont help with damg at all, fury is full as soon as a brute jumps into a mob. One aoe attack and he got agro.
Ppl only get taunt auras cause they either come with damg or def or resists, not cause taunt helps with damg.
Thats why no brute i ever seen takes the taunt from primary apart from maybe LRSF brutes.
My Brute is SS/Inv.
He dies a lot.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
No and No
If you don't like the sets yourself, don't use them - your problem is solved and no one else has to suffer Hurrah!
[ QUOTE ]
Energy, SR and shield got no dmg auras either.
[/ QUOTE ] shield got a +dmg taunt aura though.
Because it easier to down grade the player power sets with out having to change every thing else in the game that's why.
[ QUOTE ]
No and No
If you don't like the sets yourself, don't use them - your problem is solved and no one else has to suffer Hurrah!
[/ QUOTE ]
Aehm i like the combo a lot, its not about liking it or not.
Of course pll always liked and always will like overpowered combos in mmorpgs, thats why the devs in all mmorpgs try to avoid such combos, classes, sets.
Its a question of balance........
Of course most SS/Wp brutes dont want it to get nerfed thats natural, nobody wants a godlike char nerfed to reasonable lvls :-)
But other than not wanting ones own SS/Wp get nerfed, is there a logical reason not to tone it down to the lvl of performance of other sets ?
What would worry me is not the nerf as such but the effect any nerf on /WP would have on my Alts none of which use SS/WP.
Happy to be on Defiant.
Global name @mereman
Member of P.E.R.C. Representing Defiant
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I've deleted my first, and second reply.
Brutes rely on Rage. So they have to keep fighting constantly. This makes endurance management their most important factor. Therefore Willpower is the only logical choice, really.
The powersets are becoming increasingly anodyne as the powers all fit into some formula of damage, activation time and endurance cost. Please leave things alone.
�How do I like my MMOs? I like them the way Paragon Studios used to make them.� - a fitting tribute from kiasa.org
EU, Union mostly.
[ QUOTE ]
I've deleted my first, and second reply.
Brutes rely on Rage. So they have to keep fighting constantly. This makes endurance management their most important factor. Therefore Willpower is the only logical choice, really.
The powersets are becoming increasingly anodyne as the powers all fit into some formula of damage, activation time and endurance cost. Please leave things alone.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why is WP the only logical choice for end managment ?
Elec and energy do have much better end managment WP can ever get.
Even fire has an end managment power.
If you take DM as primary you got an end managment power as well.
Its just that WP offers insane regen + great resists + nice defense on top of a good end managment.
Lets say that SS/WP is the godly uber setup that the OP claims it is.
Now, if that gets nerfed, and is now as powerfull as (to use as a guidline) axe/EA.
What about those who use either of those sets with a different primary or secondary?
Your DM/WP who used to be as 'strong' as axe/EA is now underpowered.
Your SS/fire now cant put out the same damage he used to, which lowers his survivability.
Nerfing a pair of powers because, if combined, they have good synergy, will not help anything. You still have a power set that works good in that combination, but less so in others, removing balance from even more combinations than you tried to fix.
And no, i dont think either are overpowered.
The question is largely down to Endurance, SS uses a disproportionate amount - nerf the net reward for what it uses and any other secondary (or primary for a tanker) in use will suffer unfairly. Likewise nerf WP and many characters with it as a primary or secondary will suffer.
The real place balance issues arise of course (and the only place where my build is anyone else's business), is pvp and brutes in general are not overpowered in pvp and any nerf will just make that imbalance worse.
Situational in pve and worse in pvp; WP can also suffer ie RttC isnt much good 1 on 1 now is it?
Nerfing sets is a negative concept that is completely the WRONG approach to balance, what is needed and what no one can really complain about is that other powers in other sets get a bit of love...that's the positive stance and time it was taken imnho ^^
Edit I also agree with the post above, SS/WP simply have a good synergy and neither are inherently overpowered, we need more sets with good synergy imo.
[ QUOTE ]
My Brute is SS/Inv.
He dies a lot.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for putting my mind at easy, because that thread really made me feel like a noob... which I probably still am, but I honestly don't see what the big deal is about SS
My only SS/* character is also a SS/Inv, and I've already strongly considered deleting him, because I just can't stand the thought of the approx. one and a half levels I still need to do to make it to level 20 and Stamina. He routinely runs out of endurance after plowing through 3-4 opponents, and that's with just Temp Invul as a toggle. Faceplants usually follow quickly if I face more than 1 Lt. and three minions or so and don't run away to regen after every fight. How powerful SS is supposed to be is a moot point in this light, because he hasn't got enough wind to make it through two consecutive groups of baddies without needing a lie-down and a nice cuppa tea... 
[ QUOTE ]
Lets say that SS/WP is the godly uber setup that the OP claims it is.
Now, if that gets nerfed, and is now as powerfull as (to use as a guidline) axe/EA.
What about those who use either of those sets with a different primary or secondary?
Your DM/WP who used to be as 'strong' as axe/EA is now underpowered.
Your SS/fire now cant put out the same damage he used to, which lowers his survivability.
Nerfing a pair of powers because, if combined, they have good synergy, will not help anything. You still have a power set that works good in that combination, but less so in others, removing balance from even more combinations than you tried to fix.
And no, i dont think either are overpowered.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty much the same reason why Fire/Kinetics Controllers are hard to nerf. Neither of the sets are overpowered on their own but together, they become awesome. So anyone that has a different combination suffers regardless.
I have a SS/WP Brute. Haven't played her in about 90 days. My SS/Fire is a lot more fun. Maybe it's not because they're good. Maybe it's just because they're easy. And people like easy.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
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King Khorak is an SS/WP Brute. The Rage crash makes him so painfully boring I can't be bothered to push him from 44 to 50. I hate it. We now interrupt your smashing for a jarring ten second break, enjoy the boombox emote in the meantime.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
[ QUOTE ]
The question is largely down to Endurance, SS uses a disproportionate amount - nerf the net reward for what it uses and any other secondary (or primary for a tanker) in use will suffer unfairly. Likewise nerf WP and many characters with it as a primary or secondary will suffer.
The real place balance issues arise of course (and the only place where my build is anyone else's business), is pvp and brutes in general are not overpowered in pvp and any nerf will just make that imbalance worse.
Situational in pve and worse in pvp; WP can also suffer ie RttC isnt much good 1 on 1 now is it?
Nerfing sets is a negative concept that is completely the WRONG approach to balance, what is needed and what no one can really complain about is that other powers in other sets get a bit of love...that's the positive stance and time it was taken imnho ^^
Edit I also agree with the post above, SS/WP simply have a good synergy and neither are inherently overpowered, we need more sets with good synergy imo.
[/ QUOTE ]
BOTH SS and Wp are superior to the other sets, which has been datamined.
SO its NOT juts the SS/WP combo......
SS end usage isnt bigger than other sets end usage at all.
YOu might think of the Rage end crash.....
Rage damg boost and fs insane damg + radius let you kill mobs faster with way less end usage than the other sets need.
Try to kill a group of 10 mobs as DM or EM and you will see you use way more end, cause you lack an insane aoe and crazy damg buff.
Does SS solo AV's really well? Cause DM and FM can fairly reliably and then you'd want to be SR not WP to survive.
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
[ QUOTE ]
BOTH SS and Wp are superior to the other sets, which has been datamined.
[/ QUOTE ]
When did they release those results?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BOTH SS and Wp are superior to the other sets, which has been datamined.
[/ QUOTE ]
When did they release those results?
[/ QUOTE ]
Look in brute section here :-)
[ QUOTE ]
Does SS solo AV's really well? Cause DM and FM can fairly reliably and then you'd want to be SR not WP to survive.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now, now, this runs counter to the well known datamined PROOF stated earlier. Away with you and your questions!
�How do I like my MMOs? I like them the way Paragon Studios used to make them.� - a fitting tribute from kiasa.org
EU, Union mostly.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BOTH SS and Wp are superior to the other sets, which has been datamined.
[/ QUOTE ]
When did they release those results?
[/ QUOTE ]
Look in brute section here :-)
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you mean the player made comparison with stone? I cant see an official datamine in the brute section.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does SS solo AV's really well? Cause DM and FM can fairly reliably and then you'd want to be SR not WP to survive.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now, now, this runs counter to the well known datamined PROOF stated earlier. Away with you and your questions!
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry me and my stupidly valid points, I let my good sense run away with me again.
Of course comparing the AoE damage of a set like DM to anything and disregarding its stupidly high sustained ST DPS is the right thing to do, I wont question again. As for Fire Melee having a great combination of both and being largely unrisisted.......... I'll get back into my cage now.
Edit: and I didn't even mention the great DPA and mitigation that Stone Melee gives you, but I did mention the really high burst damage from Elec right? And that as brutes get an AoE imob any /fire brute could out damage footstomp fairly quickly. I wont bring that up either.
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Moghedien has spoken the case is closed!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BOTH SS and Wp are superior to the other sets, which has been datamined.
[/ QUOTE ]
When did they release those results?
[/ QUOTE ]
Look in brute section here :-)
[/ QUOTE ]
You waste our time with a rant then a misleading claim that there's datamining info in the Brutes board.
No there isn't.
There is a players look at aspects of SS/WP that seem to come to a favourable viewpoint. It doesn't really consider the whole picture (i.e. anything contradictory to the prejudged conclusion) and is certainly not datamining.
Datamining (which can only be performed by the dev/support team due to data-access requirements) would be able to compare performance as a whole - the Brutes thread does not.
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my toons
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I'd love to see real datamined info as everyones survivability or performance models do actually lack subject matter that also require observation.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
How's Energy Aura's ago management then?
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"