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Lets say that SS/WP is the godly uber setup that the OP claims it is.
Now, if that gets nerfed, and is now as powerfull as (to use as a guidline) axe/EA.
What about those who use either of those sets with a different primary or secondary?
Your DM/WP who used to be as 'strong' as axe/EA is now underpowered.
Your SS/fire now cant put out the same damage he used to, which lowers his survivability.
Nerfing a pair of powers because, if combined, they have good synergy, will not help anything. You still have a power set that works good in that combination, but less so in others, removing balance from even more combinations than you tried to fix.
And no, i dont think either are overpowered.
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Pretty much the same reason why Fire/Kinetics Controllers are hard to nerf. Neither of the sets are overpowered on their own but together, they become awesome. So anyone that has a different combination suffers regardless.
I have a SS/WP Brute. Haven't played her in about 90 days. My SS/Fire is a lot more fun. Maybe it's not because they're good. Maybe it's just because they're easy. And people like easy.
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Actually there are several very good ways to specifically target Fire/Kins, discussed on a previous thread. I wont go into all of them, but for instance Making Containment count towards damage cap, Hot Feet damage being unbuffable, or Fire Imps being immune to recharge modification.
No, its been left alone because Devs have lost their nerf-bottle, not they cant do it.
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As long as it doesn't have an effect on PvP, then I don't see any problem with have some sets stronger/weaker than others.
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Not to you directly, but it does overall effect the game: e.g:
1. New player "accidentally" picks up a "gimp" set. Level sit up, sees how bad he is. Gives up and leaves game. Resources lost.
2. Specific Trials stanrt to favour / select only specific sets / builds / ATs. These become operationalised, less variety. Playes with underpowered sets get excluded, fed up, leave game, resources lost.
3. People will naturally gravitate towards more powerful sets (dont even try to deny it). Less variery, diminshed variation in team play and (for some) playable sets. Reduces longevity of game for some. Resources lost.
4. Lack of balance in itself causes biterness and loss of faith in game. Bad karma in community and despair at lack of action causes players to leave. Resources lost.
WHilst you may not care, it affects the game.You coud I suppose construct an argument that having unbalanced sets is a good thing for the game, but thats not the veiw I take, or indeed an MMORPG I am aware of.
Surely if someone wanted a powerful set for tanking duty they would pick up Stone with Granite armour (pretty much THE tanking set).
Sure Lord Recluse is easier to handle with Granite and an Empath over an Invuln Tanker and an Empath but all it took was six small purple inspirations and Lord Recluse isn't hitting me anyway. At 50 an entire trayfull of small lucks gives you roughly 3-4 minutes of complete invulnerability which is usually enough time for the team to take down atleast two out of the four towers, especially the Red tower which is the cause of most of the non-granite tanking sets problems.
By nerfing one set or the other it affects people who don't take it in the supposedly 'godly' combination and why the sudden picking on of SS/WP brutes...you want to solo AV's you're going to go DM/SR since that's the place to be (as proven by a DM/SR scrapper in videos on youtube where he solo's almost every single AV).
Or for that matter there are sets like Rad/Sonic (or Sonic/Rad if you're going corruptor route) which are widely regarded as having the best synergy as is Illusion/Rad for controllers, they can solo GMs! You wont be seeing a SS/WP doing that any time soon but they make up for their great single target DPS by having one damaging AoE or one Cone in the set, you sacrifice quick group killing AoE damage (ala fire/EM blaster) for killer single target DPS.
Yes SS/WP is a good set for brutes but it has a crappy aggro aura (though better than some sets) and is also nearly squishiest (infront of Fire, DA and Nrg but that's about it) when it comes to tanking 'hard targets' such as AVs or GMs, it excells in mass mob combat compared to single target tanking, which is where some of the other sets pull ahead.
And for Damage, SS/Shield is the place to be, combined Rage with the +Damage aura, Fury, Footstomp, Shield Charge and you're reaching damage levels where stuff just dies by looking at you apparently (Hyberbole I assure you but I've heard it comes close).
Edit: Yes there are some underpowered sets (/NRG for Brutes apparently...) but often the case that each set just isn't as easy to play as one other set...Trick Archery for example is apparently underpowered but it has loads of tricks which match upto Radiation Emission, it has -regen, -res, -to hit, -rech, basically every trick Rad can pull so can Trick Archery, it's just got a bit of a crappy rep from aeons past.
There are a few really underpowered sets but most of the time you just have to get to grips with a set and learn whether it blooms early (like Rad/* for defenders) or later (like TA/* for defenders).
Each set has their own strengths and weakness, Fire blasters and Assault Rifle blasters when paired with Energy Manipulation become master of cones and area of effect abilities, the only sets that possibly need a buff are Elec blast, Psi Blast and the Devices secondary.
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A real showstopper!
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BOTH SS and Wp are superior to the other sets, which has been datamined.
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When did they release those results?
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Look in brute section here :-)
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Isn't it fantastic when someone is proved to be lying or just using words that they don't understand?
@Sweet Chilli
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3. People will naturally gravitate towards more powerful sets (dont even try to deny it).
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I'll deny it, ta very much. I'm not a Mids Number cruncher, so I don't know which sets are 'uber'. I'll pick up new sets, on any AT, for the concept and/or for experimentation, to see if its cool. Some people just dont care about '1337 h4X builds'
-pauses to cut off own fingers for typing that- 
I mean, my Invul/EM tanker. I took 15 months to get him to 50. Maybe I should have taken Stone armour, or maybe a different attack set. (this was before WP, or maybe, indeed, I would have taken that)
The point is, its only if a set is 'Broken', like many people say sets like energy aura still are, that need fixing. It its not broken, DONT try and fix it. Or we'll end up with set equivelants to what happened with PvP. A system that had some flaws, but wasnt totally broken, and now a system that very few seem to like.
-shrug-
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Or for that matter there are sets like Rad/Sonic (or Sonic/Rad if you're going corruptor route) which are widely regarded as having the best synergy as is Illusion/Rad
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also adding cold/sonic, storm/sonic, sonic/cold, sonic/storm and ill/storm.
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3. People will naturally gravitate towards more powerful sets (dont even try to deny it).
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They gravitate towards sets they think are more powerful, because they see other people playing it and ask about it, or they read threads on the forums whining about how overpowered a certain set is.
Don't try to tell me that /WP is defensively stronger than /Stone, or has better aoe damage than fire/fire, and how many have noticed that with the issue 13 buffs to Dark Melee just how powerful Dark/SR can be?
I really should do something about this signature.
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Edit: Yes there are some underpowered sets (/NRG for Brutes apparently...) but often the case that each set just isn't as easy to play as one other set...Trick Archery for example is apparently underpowered but it has loads of tricks which match upto Radiation Emission, it has -regen, -res, -to hit, -rech, basically every trick Rad can pull so can Trick Archery, it's just got a bit of a crappy rep from aeons past.
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Not the best example in the world, TAs -regen, -tohit and -recharge aren't anywhere near Rads, especially the -regen and -tohit. Even its -resistance requires 2 powers to match up to what Rad can do in one. Plus TA has no heal or wonderful buff.
Of course TA does bring damage & a bit more control. But it could do with a few tweaks to powers to make it more desirable, especially vs AVs.
I've soloed AVs with my Illusion/TA controller.
I really should do something about this signature.
Rad is overrated.
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I've soloed AVs with my Illusion/TA controller.
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Sure, but have you with a TA defender? I've heard of Rad/Sonics doing it but never a TA/Anything defender. Illusion is excellent at handling AVs for obvious reasons.
I'd agree with Toy that Rad is overrated, people seem to think its the only debuff set, but plenty of other sets do as well or nearly as well as it, but I wouldn't count TA as one of them at the mo.
*Edit : That said I'd only add a few tweaks to TA and I'd be happy. Let Acid Arrow stack for one, and add some (say 100-200) -regen into PGA or Disruption Arrow.
I do find any of the other debuff sets I've played are more fun than Rad.
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1. New player "accidentally" picks up a "gimp" set. Level sit up, sees how bad he is. Gives up and leaves game. Resources lost.
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To me, this implies that they are playing an MMO solo without much comparative play with friends and colleagues met in the game. More, it indicates they will leave if they don't have "Teh Uber Build," and my gut instinct tells me that's not why people play the game
Thelonious Monk
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As long as it doesn't have an effect on PvP, then I don't see any problem with have some sets stronger/weaker than others.
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Not to you directly, but it does overall effect the game: e.g:
1. New player "accidentally" picks up a "gimp" set. Level sit up, sees how bad he is. Gives up and leaves game. Resources lost.
2. Specific Trials stanrt to favour / select only specific sets / builds / ATs. These become operationalised, less variety. Playes with underpowered sets get excluded, fed up, leave game, resources lost.
3. People will naturally gravitate towards more powerful sets (dont even try to deny it). Less variery, diminshed variation in team play and (for some) playable sets. Reduces longevity of game for some. Resources lost.
4. Lack of balance in itself causes biterness and loss of faith in game. Bad karma in community and despair at lack of action causes players to leave. Resources lost.
WHilst you may not care, it affects the game.You coud I suppose construct an argument that having unbalanced sets is a good thing for the game, but thats not the veiw I take, or indeed an MMORPG I am aware of.
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What a load of [censored], thats the most rubbish argument to support nerfs iv ever seen.
Every one of those arguments is just pure jank.
People dont up and leave over a bad char they make another.
If what you were saying had a grain of truth in it, this game would have a population of 0 by now.
If you want nerfs think of real reasons.
At this stage of this games life nerfs big or small are going to lose more subs than any of those reasons you just trumped up.
I'm with Praf on this one. A lot of people play what is percieved as being the uber set. We've seen fotm's change from one combo to another over the years. Nerf SS/WP and all you'll do is cause that particular crowd of players to start on the new fotm.
Not one decent argument has been given by the OP as to how they would nerf SS/WP brutes without murdering tanks, stalkers, scrappers that use one of these powersets (or brutes that only use one of these sets).
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Don't try to tell me that /WP is defensively stronger than /Stone, or has better aoe damage than fire/fire, and how many have noticed that with the issue 13 buffs to Dark Melee just how powerful Dark/SR can be?
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WP isnt stronger than Stone, but almost equal.
Psi AVs can almost 2 shot Granite brutes, cause they got no psi defense at all.
And WP doesnt get ANY of the debuffs Stone gets.
Remove recharge, damg and movement debuff from stone or at least two of them, and the 2 sets are equal.
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I'm with Praf on this one. A lot of people play what is percieved as being the uber set. We've seen fotm's change from one combo to another over the years. Nerf SS/WP and all you'll do is cause that particular crowd of players to start on the new fotm.
Not one decent argument has been given by the OP as to how they would nerf SS/WP brutes without murdering tanks, stalkers, scrappers that use one of these powersets (or brutes that only use one of these sets).
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Make rage unstackable would be a start.
And dont tell me that would gimp the chars....there was no stackable rage before sets came out without outside buffs and SS was doing fine.
Add some debuffs to WP like Stone gets them.
Like a - dmg or - rech on RTTC.
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Psi AVs can almost 2 shot Granite brutes, cause they got no psi defense at all.
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Minerals?
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Psi AVs can almost 2 shot Granite brutes, cause they got no psi defense at all.
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Minerals?
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And One with The Earth, and Rooted.
WP is a little better against Psi, but it is far far inferior vs S/L and even worse vs F/C/E/N.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Psi AVs can almost 2 shot Granite brutes, cause they got no psi defense at all.
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Minerals?
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And One with The Earth, and Rooted.
WP is a little better against Psi, but it is far far inferior vs S/L and even worse vs F/C/E/N.
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Of course you cant move at all with those powers active and you forget about the regen WP has as its main way to migitate damg :-)
No, I didn't forget the regen. Stone also has regen (not as much), but with much higher res, def and +hp stone is way way ahead against anything but psi and toxic damage.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Psi AVs can almost 2 shot Granite brutes, cause they got no psi defense at all.
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Minerals?
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And One with The Earth, and Rooted.
WP is a little better against Psi, but it is far far inferior vs S/L and even worse vs F/C/E/N.
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Of course you cant move at all with those powers active and you forget about the regen WP has as its main way to migitate damg :-)
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Given that we got here from your sentence Psi AVs can almost 2 shot... why is movement so important when facing AVs? Until the AV AI is upped the AVs don't tend to move that much...
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
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Psi AVs can almost 2 shot Granite brutes, cause they got no psi defense at all.
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Minerals?
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And One with The Earth, and Rooted.
WP is a little better against Psi, but it is far far inferior vs S/L and even worse vs F/C/E/N.
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Of course you cant move at all with those powers active and you forget about the regen WP has as its main way to migitate damg :-)
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Given that we got here from your sentence Psi AVs can almost 2 shot... why is movement so important when facing AVs? Until the AV AI is upped the AVs don't tend to move that much...
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Very true, and when facing off against a single AV Stone will have more regen than WP does.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Of course you cant move at all with those powers active and you forget about the regen WP has as its main way to migitate damg :-)
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Regen which means absolutely nothing when you've only got an AV to regen from and he/she is smashing away half your health every hit. And why exactly do you need to move when you and an AV are toe to toe busily beating each others faces in? This is exactly the situation in which Willpower fails next to other sets, it specifically can't deal with spike damage.
Damn that logic, it's such a pain!
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3. People will naturally gravitate towards more powerful sets (dont even try to deny it).
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They gravitate towards sets they think are more powerful, because they see other people playing it and ask about it, or they read threads on the forums whining about how overpowered a certain set is.
Don't try to tell me that /WP is defensively stronger than /Stone, or has better aoe damage than fire/fire, and how many have noticed that with the issue 13 buffs to Dark Melee just how powerful Dark/SR can be?
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Good point, I stand corrected. People will gravitate towards sets they think are powerful.
Not "people" meaning you specifically. Or me, come to that. But the population as a whole will tend to grvitate towards perceived powerful sets (other factors come into play too of course)/
My only level 40+ brutes have been DB/WP and Elec/Stone.
Whist /Stone certainly has its dvantages is some respects, allowing you to act as "Tank", there is no question in my mind that Willpower is stupidly overpowered for brutes. Mainily, because they have good survivability (equal to anything but Granite it seems to me) coupled with regen and endurance recovery; which are hugely important in allowing a steam roller brute on full fury.
Willpower should never have been given to brutes, IMO, without a serious change to it.