Presumably Cognito, although I don't think he was actually swayed by the OP. He just happened to be leaning in the same direction already. 
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28 Pages later and I do struggle to find more than one person swayed by the arguments of the OP, is it just possible there are no WMD to be found in either SS or WP??
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Seems that the ppl playing the game and the ppl posting in this thread have different opinions :-)
Just log in and see how many brutes playing that specific combo compared to other combos and then pls tell them they are all idiots cause that combo isnt any better than all other combos and whatever they feel how good its performance is they are wrong and you know better.....
And pls dont say they all play that combo because of visual effects or concept reason, rofl.
Heh, im not swayed either way to be honest. Superstrength I have no Idea on really. My willpower brute seemed to overperform noticibly over my other brutes. I think it needs to be looked at, to examine if there really is a problem.
Wasnt really swayed, wasnt really leaning in that direction to begin with. As far as I can see calling for nerfs against specific sets is against forum rules anyhow (although the one time I ignored it when I posted on fire/kins, the reason for which was actually to protect the bulk of players from nerfs... oh so how easily forgotten that was... easy to pidgeonhole me isnt it?) I actually got a redname reply complementing me on well thought out points so clearly its not an absolutely hideous crime.
This thread? Well, I sidelined it by defending nerfs as a principle and trying to eradicate the mythology tht you cant trget specfic combo's. Dhould have lept out, PRAF, as you said!
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28 Pages later and I do struggle to find more than one person swayed by the arguments of the OP, is it just possible there are no WMD to be found in either SS or WP??
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Seems that the ppl playing the game and the ppl posting in this thread have different opinions :-)
Just log in and see how many brutes playing that specific combo compared to other combos and then pls tell them they are all idiots cause that combo isnt any better than all other combos and whatever they feel how good its performance is they are wrong and you know better.....
And pls dont say they all play that combo because of visual effects or concept reason, rofl.
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No one said anyone was an idiot, they are playing them because they want to....dont make me call in the AT/Power Set choice Police again!
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28 Pages later and I do struggle to find more than one person swayed by the arguments of the OP, is it just possible there are no WMD to be found in either SS or WP??
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Seems that the ppl playing the game and the ppl posting in this thread have different opinions :-)
Just log in and see how many brutes playing that specific combo compared to other combos and then pls tell them they are all idiots cause that combo isnt any better than all other combos and whatever they feel how good its performance is they are wrong and you know better.....
And pls dont say they all play that combo because of visual effects or concept reason, rofl.
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Why do you think that it is so ridiculous that players use conceptual reasons to create there characters? Most of the people I know in game seam to base there characters on concept instead of playability. Many people that I have talked to in PUGs say that they choose power sets because of the look or because a certain power looked really good. They don't seam to know the best numbers for it. They want to have fun.
Reading the descriptions of SS and Willpower, the too sets seam to fit together very well, conceptually. How can you be so sure that they are all so concerned about the numbers?
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Why do you think that it is so ridiculous that players use conceptual reasons to create there characters? Most of the people I know in game seam to base there characters on concept instead of playability. Many people that I have talked to in PUGs say that they choose power sets because of the look or because a certain power looked really good. They don't seam to know the best numbers for it. They want to have fun.
Reading the descriptions of SS and Willpower, the too sets seam to fit together very well, conceptually. How can you be so sure that they are all so concerned about the numbers?
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It may be true that some players rol it for concept reasons, but i doubt its the reason for most of them.
I know 12 players using that combo and they all rolled it because its great.
Maybe its only the players i know and all others do it for concept but i doubt it.. but who knows :-)
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Why do you think that it is so ridiculous that players use conceptual reasons to create there characters? Most of the people I know in game seam to base their characters on concept instead of playability. Many people that I have talked to in PUGs say that they choose power sets because of the look or because a certain power looked really good. They don't seam to know the best numbers for it. They want to have fun.
Reading the descriptions of SS and Willpower, the too sets seam to fit together very well, conceptually. How can you be so sure that they are all so concerned about the numbers?
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It may be true that some players rol it for concept reasons, but i doubt its the reason for most of them.
I know 12 players using that combo and they all rolled it because its great.
Maybe its only the players i know and all others do it for concept but i doubt it.. but who knows :-)
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I had a SS/Invul Brute once, then deleted it. I then made a WM/WP Brute because I fancied something diff that I hadn't tried yet. Most of the people I know have chosen power sets because they haven't tried it yet or because it went with their concept. And judging by some of the things you have said you know a lot about farming. And a guess them 12 friends of yours who picked SS/WP enjoy farming to. Which would explain why the picked them powers. Also, I have read a lot of this thread because it amuses me. And you contradict yourself a lot I must say.
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Why do you think that it is so ridiculous that players use conceptual reasons to create there characters? Most of the people I know in game seam to base there characters on concept instead of playability. Many people that I have talked to in PUGs say that they choose power sets because of the look or because a certain power looked really good. They don't seam to know the best numbers for it. They want to have fun.
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Out of 56 alts I still have virtually every single one has been created for one (or more) of the following reasons:
* concept
* matching powersets (e.g. fire/fire)
* because a punning name came to me and the sets fitted the name (e.g. Failed Martial Monty)!
* because I heard that the mix had downsides and I wanted to see if it was as bad as I'd heard
* for an event (e.g. death races)
* to try sets that I've never tried before.
Even my fire/kin was made as I wanted a pyronetic with telekinetic abilities as a biog based on carrie/firestarter struck me as amusing... as a new player I mistakenly thought that gravs propel power was part of the kinetics set - so Pyronatrix ended up as a fire/kin.
Not once have I ever created a character because the powerset choices are meant to be 'uber'.
Funnily enough - I've not tried SS/WP - but like many others I might now... if nothing else just to create even more of them just for you to count.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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Why do you think that it is so ridiculous that players use conceptual reasons to create there characters? Most of the people I know in game seam to base there characters on concept instead of playability. Many people that I have talked to in PUGs say that they choose power sets because of the look or because a certain power looked really good. They don't seam to know the best numbers for it. They want to have fun.
Reading the descriptions of SS and Willpower, the too sets seam to fit together very well, conceptually. How can you be so sure that they are all so concerned about the numbers?
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It may be true that some players rol it for concept reasons, but i doubt its the reason for most of them.
I know 12 players using that combo and they all rolled it because its great.
Maybe its only the players i know and all others do it for concept but i doubt it.. but who knows :-)
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I doubt it's because of the numbers. I'd say it was the concept... but who knows? 
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
Going to maybe try rolling an SS/Wp brute. Ive never really got on with Brutes. I preffer eaither constant damage (scrapper/stalker/VEAT) or ranged annihilation (blaster/corr/MM/Crab)
Also, I switched off as soon as I saw the Farming point.
Who CARES if something is slightly better IF THEIR ON YOUR TEAM?!
Utter, utter tripe. If your on there team, you are still getting the exp rewards anyway, for less stress. Nothing bad. if your there for RP, nothing bad ANYWAY. If your farming, then why you are complaining about having an 'Uber' build on your team is so far beyond my horizon I cant even BEGIN to imagine it.
This just seems like a personal little rant at some imagined problem. Devs? Kindly ignore this 
-goes to off to play and enjoy the game-
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Why do you think that it is so ridiculous that players use conceptual reasons to create there characters? Most of the people I know in game seam to base there characters on concept instead of playability. Many people that I have talked to in PUGs say that they choose power sets because of the look or because a certain power looked really good. They don't seam to know the best numbers for it. They want to have fun.
Reading the descriptions of SS and Willpower, the too sets seam to fit together very well, conceptually. How can you be so sure that they are all so concerned about the numbers?
[/ QUOTE ]
It may be true that some players rol it for concept reasons, but i doubt its the reason for most of them.
I know 12 players using that combo and they all rolled it because its great.
Maybe its only the players i know and all others do it for concept but i doubt it.. but who knows :-)
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I doubt it's because of the numbers. I'd say it was the concept... but who knows?
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I doubt people are taking steorids for the strength it gives them. I'd say it was the concept...but who knows?
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And pls dont say they all play that combo because of visual effects or concept reason, rofl.
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The playerbase outcry for a set with no costume obscuring effects is what drove them to both vote for Willpower, and the Devs to deliberately strike a balance with it to ensure players could see what powers were on whilst still being low key. The Willpower set exists pretty much for one reason; a set with no obscuring or ostentatious power effects so people could see their lovingly created costume, and even more so as an alternative to Super Reflexes for players using a Natural Origin.
Your laughter at this shows how utterly ignorant you are. Willpower is the set of choice for anyone who either doesn't want to build their costume around the effects of their defense set, or wants a nicely generic and ambiguous set for concept reasons. It is something that matters a great deal to anyone who plays the game and isn't a militant whiner trying to hide behind numbers they don't have.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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alternative to Super Reflexes for players using a Natural Human Origin.
[/ QUOTE ]Fixed before yet another "Aliens are natural too" misinterpretation/nitpicking war.
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Why do you think that it is so ridiculous that players use conceptual reasons to create there characters? Most of the people I know in game seam to base there characters on concept instead of playability. Many people that I have talked to in PUGs say that they choose power sets because of the look or because a certain power looked really good. They don't seam to know the best numbers for it. They want to have fun.
Reading the descriptions of SS and Willpower, the too sets seam to fit together very well, conceptually. How can you be so sure that they are all so concerned about the numbers?
[/ QUOTE ]
It may be true that some players rol it for concept reasons, but i doubt its the reason for most of them.
I know 12 players using that combo and they all rolled it because its great.
Maybe its only the players i know and all others do it for concept but i doubt it.. but who knows :-)
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I doubt it's because of the numbers. I'd say it was the concept... but who knows?
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I doubt people are taking steorids for the strength it gives them. I'd say it was the concept...but who knows?
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Well, people are free to post numbers up to prove there point. Somehow I doubt it will happen though.
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alternative to Super Reflexes for players using a Natural Human Origin.
[/ QUOTE ]Fixed before yet another "Aliens are natural too" misinterpretation/nitpicking war.
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Yeah, that too. I'm just not having one boneheaded fool tar everyone who likes Willpower as the awesome concept and costume set it is (and why I use it so much) just because of his absurd little grudge.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
WHo cares why people roll them really? Nobodies going to nerf a set because it is more popular. Quite right, really.
However, surely if a significant proportion of people feel that, or show mathematical models of imbalance (either positive or negative), would you not prefer the Devs to focus their "rebalancing eye" on that? Or would you prefer they wasted resources by not listening to players and looking at sets/powers blindly.
Im not for one second suggesting that the "Rebalancing eye" actually DOES anything, but that it examines whether their is a case or not.
No one should tar ANY set unless parts of it are actually broken in anyway.
Or unless it is the Old ladies MM set or Carp Melee, which are both made of pure win and are fail protected
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Why shouldnt people tar a set? Would you rather the Devs wasted resources looking at sets randomly? Just as people have a right to suggest some sets are underpowered (nobody complains about that, of course), surely the reverse is true?
The Devs ARE going to keep rebalancing the game. Players can help make the resources they are in more efficient.
Or maybe next time you go to the doctor you shouldnt say whats wrong with you. Let him do all the tests he can. Dont give him any clues where he should spend his limited time with you (and no, you dont get any more time with him).
(Incidentally, Im a doctor, so I am rather numbed to medical jokes. However bad you think it health professionals are, I can assure you the reality is both different and worse)
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Why shouldnt people tar a set? Would you rather the Devs wasted resources looking at sets randomly? Just as people have a right to suggest some sets are underpowered (nobody complains about that, of course), surely the reverse is true?
The Devs ARE going to keep rebalancing the game. Players can help make the resources they are in more efficient.
Or maybe next time you go to the doctor you shouldnt say whats wrong with you. Let him do all the tests he can. Dont give him any clues where he should spend his limited time with you (and no, you dont get any more time with him).
(Incidentally, Im a doctor, so I am rather numbed to medical jokes. However bad you think it health professionals are, I can assure you the reality is both different and worse)
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I bet your hand writing is shocking 
Its pretty rubbish, but heck you should see my signature.
Seems like people have moved on from Merge the servers to nerfing willpower/Super Strength, guess complaining about WP is a FotM thing, give it a week and they'll be back to complaining how 'empty' the servers are (even though I've noticed a rather large increase in invites to teams, even after the DXP weekend).
Nobody is being swayed by the OP and we're not swaying him, all we're doing is shouting at each other, both parties having their fingers in thier ears.
Willpower has it's weakness and strengths, just like every other set as does Super Strength, Fire/Fire Brute will kill things twice as fast as WP at the sacrifice of survivability (until reasonably well slotted with IOs), a DM/SR Brute is able to solo AVs and has barely any AoEs, a */Stone brute in Granite can out-tank WP brute but sacrifices DPS for Tanking.
SS/WP is a good allrounder but it doesn't specialize in anything, the only synergy set it blows out of the water is SS/Invulnerability which in my opinion still needs a few tweaks to get it up to par with WP, what those tweaks are, no idea but I feel like Invuln just isn't quite up to WP for some reason as it's the other 'jack of all trades' kind of set.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
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However, surely if a significant proportion of people feel that, or show mathematical models of imbalance (either positive or negative), would you not prefer the Devs to focus their "rebalancing eye" on that? Or would you prefer they wasted resources by not listening to players and looking at sets/powers blindly.
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I find this possibly quite naive regarding both the devs/players and regarding the tools that can be used for datamining.
Players often have the wrong impression, therefore the devs putting too much weight in the players demands (regarding set balancing issues) may be the wrong thing to do. Not listening to anyone but analysing the data (which doesn't present an opinion) is probably the way to go. I think that the devs are smart enough to have figured that one out for themselves.
When you datamine or look at the power/set data, you aren't neccesarily looking at individual powers/combinations in turn and giving it full consideration. Simplifying it it's more likely that you're telling the database/computer to go away perform a load of calculations on all powers/sets/combinations that have been used (and we have data for) and bring back certain metrics for them.
The metrics may not just be things like mean/peak dps, which players concentrate on. They may include things like average time to hit level 10/20/30/x, percentage of playtime spent with debt, defeats per hour, defeats per hour vs individual foes etc etc
Up until this point, it probably isn't really a case of the devs focussing their 'balancing eye'. The legwork is probably done by the computer - hell: that's what computers are good at.
Once the computers done its work, any powers/sets/etc that fall outside an acceptable range (either underperforming or overperforming) can be identified - then work to check the result, understand why it's happenning and attempt rebalancing will probably be done by a dev.
This second part has to be directed at individual sets/powers etc - but the 1st part (identifying what actually needs looking at) probably doesn't. If it does then NorCal need a better data analysts.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
I still say Foot Stomp+Rage is broken. The combination of the two, not the individual powers.
I would agree with you actually, Nerfing/Buffing is mainly done by Devs and their IT resources.
However, it is quite clear in the history of the game that when players have clamoured for buffs of something, they listen and relook at the set. They have also specifically asked for feedback in beta's about whether testers think a new set is balanced.
Personally I think almost everything on the boards is, for a Dev, complete drivel. About the only thinh they may consider from a Dev's point of veiw is ideas on how to change something they have decided needed changing. The "stealth nerf" being the classic example.
Who was the one person?
I really should do something about this signature.