Mob-Stealing, or Lending a Helping Hand?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-05-31 06:08 in Player Questions
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The only thing that can really be stolen is the actual arresting of the enemy - that final blow that puts them down. Most of the game/xp is not related to the final "arrest" but to the damage that you have generated to the enemies. The only time that it is is when you are on a head-count mission, and those are the exception to the rule.
If someone is following you around doing this - waiting until you have almost killed something and then making the final hit in order to take credit for your arrest - then you could petition the person.
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hm... Let me rephrase here. It sounds like you are saying that only the person who lands the 'killing blow' gets the defeat credit for a hunt mission. That is incorrect. If I do 1/3 of the enemy hit points, then someone 'kill-steals', doing the other 2/3 and finishing the enemy off, we *BOTH* get the 'kill credit'.
Anyone who does more than 10% of the enemy's hit points, or is on a team that does more than 10%, gets kill credit.
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The Mentor Project
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The only thing that can really be stolen is the actual arresting of the enemy - that final blow that puts them down. Most of the game/xp is not related to the final "arrest" but to the damage that you have generated to the enemies. The only time that it is is when you are on a head-count mission, and those are the exception to the rule.
If someone is following you around doing this - waiting until you have almost killed something and then making the final hit in order to take credit for your arrest - then you could petition the person.
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hm... Let me rephrase here. It sounds like you are saying that only the person who lands the 'killing blow' gets the defeat credit for a hunt mission. That is incorrect. If I do 1/3 of the enemy hit points, then someone 'kill-steals', doing the other 2/3 and finishing the enemy off, we *BOTH* get the 'kill credit'.
Anyone who does more than 10% of the enemy's hit points, or is on a team that does more than 10%, gets kill credit.
[/ QUOTE ] THIS. If somebody is trying to grief my hunt, I just land a few shots and move on. I'll let them finish the foes off for me. It just makes my hunt go by faster. lol
The only exception I can think of is when you are talking about saving a Citizen from a mugging.. the last foe's defeat will cause the NPC to come back and award you with extra inf. This bonus only applies to the person who "got the kill".
I have a toon in a sg that makes a point of not inviting children. You are asked your age and usually have to talk on vent before an invite is handed out. Had a member tell them they had to tone down their sg chat because her kid would play her account. After some deliberation, she was asked to leave the sg. It is a place for adults, not kiddies. She refused and was kicked. I think she tried petitioning them but they heard nothing of it.
I am not here to baby sit your kids. Your child is not my responsibility. If raising your child is too tough, you should have used a condom.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
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It's different for just about every situation. SOmetimes they are honestly trying to help. SOmetimes it is just a twerp getting his jollies.
I just assume they are trying to help, and encourage them to find a team or 'help' someone who wants/needs it.
I'm never mad enough at them to report them, even if they make a habit of it. It's just too minor of an annoyance to me to do it. If I see them do it to me, and then they start harassing someone else, or if they area jerk about it, I might though.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
Here's a Quick Reply for ya - my first! (Somebody give me a cookie)
I can understand why folks might try to "help" a fellow hero out, but it really bugs me when they do. Even though I'm not really missing out on any XP, and I'm still getting credit towards any Hunting missions I might be on, when someone plows into my business with unsolicited aid, I become angry and violent. I haven't punched anyone yet, but it's only a matter of time.
And here's the reason: I'm trying to be a super hero over here.
Nothing makes a guy feel less like a super hero than having somebody else come in and save him from getting his [censored] kicked. Who doesn't enjoy the thrill of seeing your health bar plummet, only to pull out a victory at the last moment? If you've got a little "helper-monkey" off to the side, it's not so thrilling. Hell, I don't even like getting heals or other buffs while I'm fighting. I don't mind dying, as long as I fought as hard as I could. But whether I win or lose, lemme do so on my own merits (or lack thereof).
Larry: Owen, what the hell did you do to my wife?
Owen: Well I don't want to say on the phone - all I can tell you is that I killed her last night.
I have found that 99% of the time it's merely a lack of communication. I've sometimes engaged a foe, only to realize someone else was fighting it after the fact. By the time you get around to sending a chat message, the damage is already done, and someone likely thinks you're being a jerk. It's not the XP, it's the fact that without some sort of acknowledgement of the other guy it feels rude.
My solution is to set up a set of keybinds specifically for that purpose. When I spot someone who was fighting that MOB, I hit a key that says, "Whoops, I'm sorry, I didn't see you there." I also have keys for thanking those that help. I find that I don't really need to say, "I didn't really need the help". They usually give a "np" and leave. If they do continue to harass me, then I can take the time to send a polite chat message.
I also try to help out in "non-XP stealing" ways when I have a character that can do that. I'll put a buff on the player, or debuff his foe. If he looks like he's in trouble, I'll sometimes use a hold or stun, but that depends since that will steal some XP. Again, I have a keybind that says, "You go ahead, he's all yours" so the player knows I won't do anything but just watch and make sure he doesn't get in over his head.
Finally, while I don't think there's any problem with saying you won't allow any children on your team; it's your time, and you can play as you wish; I think it's a bit much to say children shouldn't be allowed in this game. Children can have fun playing superheroes just like everyone else. As long as the parents know it's rated T, they can make the judgement about what they want to do about it. It's not like it's rated M. 
I cannot stand malicious bullying. There is kill stealing in this game and I've been a victim of it.
On a new toon, a Dominator, I can easily take on 4 mobs without much effort. Using the various roots/incapacitations at my disposal, along with direct damage spells, I can become a mean killing machine. However sometimes I miss on a cast. This opens up the opportunity for someone to come in and snag whatever it was I am killing for theirs. This happens more often than you think it does in open areas. It really irritates me when someone replies, 'I was only helping' while I'm at full health and the mob is 10 feet away lobbing potshots at me.
Just because I miss a few casts does not mean I need help and it definitely doesn't mean you need to follow me and 'help' me with every pull.
On the flip side, I have been guilty of helping people. I've seen people at nearly zero health with still 3-4 mobs. On my Main MM I can simply taunt them off and no harm is done. On my Lowbie MM, I can heal. There has only been once that someone was on the verge of death that I ran in to help and they thanked me for it and went along their way.
Theres a difference between actually helping someone and a person using help as an excuse to serve whatever motive they have.
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For those wanting to honestly help,
Put yourself opposite them, so they can see your speech bubble.
Ask in local, "If you want help, jump." Be aware of enemies that immobilize and prevent movement.
Drop inspirations on them.
Buff them.
Heal them.
2nd pick is non-damaging enemy debuffs
Ice patch, smoke grenade, transfusion, taunts, fears effects...
All these will not leech xp, but may get you yelled at by the player who doesn't know better.
Finally, if things are looking tight, you could wade in swinging. I'd suggest you get their consent before you do.
www.paragonwiki.com is a great source of information for this game.
New or returning to the game? Want advice from experienced players who want to help YOU?
The Mentor Project: Part of the New Player Council.
I like to "help" people when I see them fighting mobs, but don't help unless it looks like they need it. 
I know it is useless to type "Do you need any help?" in Local since if they are fighting for their lives they don't have the time or ability to reply. 
Usually my "help" consists of buffing or heals if I can.
I run into many people who fight Tsoo without any BF's or powers to protect against status effects; here Clear Mind or Enhance Morale does wonders. 
I would say that almost 90% of the time people thank me; one thing I never do is attack their mobs directly as I want them to defeat their own mobs.
If I am on a Tanker, Brute or Scrapper I would use taunt if they are trying to run away and while the mobs are beating on me, I send a tell to them to finish them off. I do not try to damage them. 
Oh and I can honestly say I have never been berated for putting a buff like Fortitude on anyone.
I have a hard time just watching a hero die, but at the same time I don't want to steal kill. I generally watch for awhile. If the player is low level, they're health is dropping fast, and its obvious they're in over their head I help. If Im on a defender or controller I help without killing. If Im on my scrapper I kill just enough to even the odds. If I see the player took on a mob that's purple to him and out numbers him ten to one, I sit back and enjoy the splat.
To be honest, I probably should just ignore the first situation altogether unless asked to help.
Heroes help each other. The idea is to "beat the bad guys". It's role-playing really. Yes, edicate says that you should not kill steal. But if your helping them, that's fine. The only time they have an excuse to be mad is if they are trying to challenge themself against a huge mob. Even then, that situtation is rare and you can assume they arn't doing that.
If you think a hero needs help, help them. It's what we heroes do!
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
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It is a Teen game. Personally i think kids should not even touch that game. It is not for them. Simple as that.
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Well it is up to the parent to decide, that is the reason for the rating system. The only thing I really see that could warrant this as 'teen' is the online experience with other players. The gameplay is certainly E10+.
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It says right on the box "Children under the age of 13 are not permitted to play"
[/ QUOTE ]No, it doesn't. Try actually looking at something before saying what it says.
[/ QUOTE ] Haha, you're wrong.
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It is a Teen game. Personally i think kids should not even touch that game. It is not for them. Simple as that.
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Well it is up to the parent to decide, that is the reason for the rating system. The only thing I really see that could warrant this as 'teen' is the online experience with other players. The gameplay is certainly E10+.
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It says right on the box "Children under the age of 13 are not permitted to play"
[/ QUOTE ]No, it doesn't. Try actually looking at something before saying what it says.
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Read the fine print. Middle of the text in the red box.
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It says right on the box "Children under the age of 13 are not permitted to play"
[/ QUOTE ]No, it doesn't. Try actually looking at something before saying what it says.
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Read the fine print. Middle of the text in the red box.
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I never noticed that. That's not what the "T" rating means, though. More likely that's from NCSoft's TOS, and is designed to protect them against lawsuits.
I do know no one who is not old enough to have a credit card can own an account. And technically speaking, I suppose, you are not allowed to let more than one person play on a given account. Whether or not NCSoft makes allowances for family members using the same account, however, I don't know.
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There are definitely some malicious players who take advantage of spawns agroed to a tanker or locked down by a controller. Very often these blasters and scrappers will "come help" knowing they can get quick and easy xps, kills or rewards without effort.
It is not just in Atlas Park. Happens also in P.I. and even level 50s sometimes killsteal on other players. My tanker was fighting a Fake Nemesis and some blaster appeared out of nowhere did Aim-BuildUP-Inferno right in my face and killed my target. That was not nice.
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Do what I do.
DEMAND satisfaction in arena.
Elly 
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The more common term hereabouts is kill-stealing. It is considered impolite, though there is no formal rule against it. If another player follows you around doing it constantly, there may be grounds for a petition claiming harassment.
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From experience, probably not much will be done. Thankfully it doesn't often happen.
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The more common term hereabouts is kill-stealing. It is considered impolite, though there is no formal rule against it. If another player follows you around doing it constantly, there may be grounds for a petition claiming harassment.
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From experience, probably not much will be done. Thankfully it doesn't often happen.
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Kill stealing, in and of itself, is not actionable in game.
However, if someone is following you around, refusing to team with you, and continually kill stealing then it's harassment/cyberstalking - which WILL be acted on.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I read the first 3 pages, so i may be repeating someone elses view. I do not like to see heroes going down, so i watch them to see their health bar, as a chronic healer, i will use Fearsome Stare or Tarpatch to help since it does not damage, or twilights grasp to heal, or Heal/Heal Other with my Emp, you dont need to kill to help! Asking if they need help will save the problem of kill-stealing.
If your the victim of stalking, one warning should be enough, if not, then they are crossing the line!
Unfortunately there are a lot of bad heroes, so feel free to point them out, i am very vocal about people who play at others expense! If you are on Champion server, then you already know this
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Sorry for the sarcasm, but someone jumping in on one group is meaningless and you should just let it slide like water off a duck's back. If they follow you and do it constantly, that's harassment, and you should petition. Otherwise, you just look like a whiny baby.
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True up to a point. But being rude is an action, not something that happens by accident, except in one of those genuinely accidental moments when player X didn't know player Y was fighting that foe. Fortunately actual rude players are rare in this game though; so when that one dopes pop up, it's doubly aggravating to me. But yeah, I'd just as soon let it slide. Last time it happened I just left the area.
Count me in the camp of "there's no such thing as kill-stealing."
For one thing, as mentioned, you really don't have to do that much to get credit for the defeat. One or two hits on an enemy, and you're good to go hunt-wise. If you're street-sweeping for experience, there are much better ways to get experience, but if you want to, fine. Just realize that everyone else has just as much right to defeat a villain as you do. It's not like Superman sees someone being robbed and says, "Meh, that's Batman's problem."
For another, it's not like there are only three Hellions and everyone is camping them for credit. There are an infinite supply of bad guys, and they're everywhere. The vast majority of them are trivially easy to find, just turn around in place and you'll likely see at least three or four more groups of what it is you're looking for. Move on, and get on with life.
If someone is following you around, chances are that either they don't understand the game yet or they're being a jerk. If it's the former, consider teaming up. There are rewards for this far beyond experience and credit for defeats. If it's the latter, go somewhere else. The more grief you feel over stuff like this, the more joy a griefer gets from making you miserable. Don't play their game. Work on an instanced mission, go to another zone, or do whatever to not give them the satisfaction.
I once petitioned someone who was following me around and defeating all of my enemies. They were Carnies in Peregrine Isle, an enemy that's actually not so easy to find, and I didn't really have much else to do. I repeatedly asked them to stop, and they kept following me around. I finally petitioned them, waited a few (they just stood there watching me), and nothing happened. Finally, I had an idea. I charged into a group that was way higher than me and ended up in the hospital. They didn't follow, so I had a little debt to work off, but was finally free of them.
Later, I saw a GM's response to my e-mail. It basically said that I should move to another zone, work on other missions, etc. So yeah, "kill-stealing" isn't really actionable, either, even if it is harassing. But really, I don't care that much. As far as irritating things go, this is way down towards the bottom of the list.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
Firmly amongst those that don't care unless you follow me around and try to leech xp.
Even then, I've found that it is rarely a true leech (but it has happened). It is far more often someone new that assumed you help out a fellow hero or someone young that is simply having fun and trying to be genuinely helpful.
As far as kids playing, haters can hate all they want, it's not going to change it. Kids play and will continue play. It's a fantastically fun game for kids to create their own hero/villain and then see them in action.
My kids play because I know what they are playing, someone else's "rating" is nothing more than a guide. Other products rated for them they don't touch because it's MY call, not some corporation or committee's.
The fact that they play in no way means you are "babysitting" them anymore than I am "babysitting" the random fully grown morons I play with sometimes that don't know what they are doing or haven't learned yet how to interact socially.
I would have no issue with an SG/VG that excluded kids, there's nothing wrong with a mature only group and I would encourage groups to set guidelines like that. My kids don't join any SG other than mine.
Just wanted to comment on the little red box everyone is up in arms over.
Its only purpose is to release NCSoft from liability. No one is policing it and no one's account is going to be banned over it. It's a 'cover your [censored]' statement and nothing more.
I will decide what's appropriate for my children, not some company, thank you very much.
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Just wanted to comment on the little red box everyone is up in arms over.
Its only purpose is to release NCSoft from liability. No one is policing it and no one's account is going to be banned over it. It's a 'cover your [censored]' statement and nothing more.
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I prefer the term "Donkey pants statement".
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Just wanted to comment on the little red box everyone is up in arms over.
Its only purpose is to release NCSoft from liability. No one is policing it and no one's account is going to be banned over it. It's a 'cover your [censored]' statement and nothing more.
I will decide what's appropriate for my children, not some company, thank you very much.
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All it takes is for someone like Jack Thompson it find out that they are not enforcing the rule. Next thing you know, NCSoft is getting sued to 'protect the children'. People like him don't care that you think it's okay for your child to play. They have the attitude that if you let an under-age child play a teen rated game, then you are not doing your job a parent. They will step in and force the company to do the job for you.
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The Justiciars
I think there is kill stealing - when the pest is your level or close . Then there is harrassment when the pest is much higher. Kill stealing might be for points. But when the pest gets no points for doing it and follows you around repeatedly that is harrassment.