Devs- Are you too RP-minded?
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2009-05-22 08:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Before AE came out there were at least two warnings not to use it as farm grounds. They were ignored.
When AE came out the patch notes and tutorial said not to farm it. This was ignored.
The Devs went "If you can't be trusted not to throw the ball in the house you don't get any balls."
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to be fair most people didn't actually read any of that
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Yes but the information was there, it is their own fault if they couldn't be bothered to read it.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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5. I mention grindy and EQ gets brought up. Why not compare this to the Atari E.T. game while you are at it? This game IS grindy. And while maybe not the grindiest of all time, it is worse than say WoW. (oh noes I said the "W" word)
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It is not grindy. If it is grindy to you then you are doing it wrong.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Before AE came out there were at least two warnings not to use it as farm grounds. They were ignored.
When AE came out the patch notes and tutorial said not to farm it. This was ignored.
The Devs went "If you can't be trusted not to throw the ball in the house you don't get any balls."
People acted like kids they were disciplined like kids.
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gamers acted in an absolutely consistent and predictable manner, and the supposed "grown ups" pitched a great big fit about it.
expecting gamers to do anything other than seek the most efficient reward path available is idiotic. throwing a hissy about it when it happens is ridiculous.
as the alleged "grown ups" in the power structure of the game the developers need to act in a more responsible, realistic, measured manner.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Yes but the information was there, it is their own fault if they couldn't be bothered to read it.
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it doesn't matter if they read it or not.
Post all the "don't eat people" signs you want on the Savannah, lions will still do it- that's their nature.
Players will find efficient reward paths.
If developers don't want them to, it must be coded into the game.
Asking doesn't work, period. It never has, it never will.
Their release of AE was like throwing a deer into the lion cage and then having a screaming fit when it got eaten.
Gamers acting like gamers is predictable and understandable.
All the fault here lies with the devs, the alleged 'adults' who threw a huge fit when their paying customers didn't use a toy they way they wanted them to.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I just see players having found something that made the game fun for them again, and it really isn't affecting anyone else, and the devs wanna end it.
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Actually, there you are wrong. Farming causes imbalance in the Markets for the general player. Farming Allows the RMT to get characters up to the level they can send the annoying SPAM e-mail out, and gets them more inf/goodies quicker thereby upsetting the balance of things such as the markets.
There will always be farming, but the point is that it is not what the game was made for. It is a game and the we are allowed into the world provided we abide by the rules imposed by the Devs. The end result is it is their sandbox and they can do what they want, regardless of what an RPer, PVPer or Farmer wants.
And yes, I have noticed an increase in the ammount of RMT Spam I get since the MA went live.
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When you air your dirty laundry out on a clothesline above the street, everyone is allowed to snicker at the skid marks in your underoos. - Lemur_Lad
I like City of Heores.
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Yes but the information was there, it is their own fault if they couldn't be bothered to read it.
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it doesn't matter if they read it or not.
Post all the "don't eat people" signs you want on the Savannah, lions will still do it- that's their nature.
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Also, lions can't read.
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I just see players having found something that made the game fun for them again, and it really isn't affecting anyone else, and the devs wanna end it.
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Actually, there you are wrong. Farming causes imbalance in the Markets for the general player. Farming Allows the RMT to get characters up to the level they can send the annoying SPAM e-mail out, and gets them more inf/goodies quicker thereby upsetting the balance of things such as the markets.
There will always be farming, but the point is that it is not what the game was made for. It is a game and the we are allowed into the world provided we abide by the rules imposed by the Devs. The end result is it is their sandbox and they can do what they want, regardless of what an RPer, PVPer or Farmer wants.
And yes, I have noticed an increase in the ammount of RMT Spam I get since the MA went live.
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The imbalance is off-set by the common salvage going for much more now because it cannot be purchased via tickets.
And the spammers should not be a reason to nerf ANYTHING in the game for players. Set up better filters, block IPs, etc.
And how many people are playing the game the way it was envisioned? To bring up a point I made earlier, did the devs really plan on players spending all their time in Pocket D cybering with one another? Yet there are players that do that. Did devs envision costume contests? Or beach parties? The game will always grow outside of what the devs envision, for good or bad.
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I also recommend you all try playing a couple of characters from 1-50 without any dev tricks, just as a normal player, to see how grindy things are. Then go on a couple of farm missions with some friends and see how fun the leveling can be in comparison.
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I level all my characters 'without any dev tricks'. I have only four 50's to show for it, but those 50s mean far more to me than any 50 I could have gotten sitting in a farm with my thumb up my [censored]. If you honestly think the game is grindy, by all means give Lineage II a try. CoH's XP curve makes Lineage II's look like a sheer cliff.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
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Before AE came out there were at least two warnings not to use it as farm grounds. They were ignored.
When AE came out the patch notes and tutorial said not to farm it. This was ignored.
The Devs went "If you can't be trusted not to throw the ball in the house you don't get any balls."
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to be fair most people didn't actually read any of that
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Yes but the information was there, it is their own fault if they couldn't be bothered to read it.
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My thought was more "how is ignoring warnings considered a vindication for doing something dumb?"
"Jimmy lost his hand in the wood chipper after repeatedly being told it was dangerous!"
"Well, to be fair, he ignored those warnings."
"Uh..."
"What?"
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I fail to see what roleplayers have to do with the Devs clamping down on farming?
To say wide-spread farming doesn't impact anyone is incorrect and very shortsighted.
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The imbalance is off-set by the common salvage going for much more now because it cannot be purchased via tickets.
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Incorrect, dear sir, as for a mere 8 tickets you can roll on either the Arcane or Tech salvage tables and generate as much as you want, across all level ranges, regardless of your actual level.
To buffet a counter argument I can forsee coming, I'll annotate in that while it is technically impossible to get specific salvage in one shot with the ticket system, you can generate at least 5-10 rolls from one mission that will most likely get you the exact salvage you want as long as you're aware of the level range it drops in.
How to nerf RP: station a GM in pocket D on virtue to hand out 24 hour bans to anyone acting in a manner innapropriate for a teen-rated game
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Before AE came out there were at least two warnings not to use it as farm grounds. They were ignored.
When AE came out the patch notes and tutorial said not to farm it. This was ignored.
The Devs went "If you can't be trusted not to throw the ball in the house you don't get any balls."
[/ QUOTE ]
to be fair most people didn't actually read any of that
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Yes but the information was there, it is their own fault if they couldn't be bothered to read it.
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Until enough of them get ticked and it becomes a detrement to everyone else when they cant fund the servers anymore. 
I've never seen a situation where i totally agree with the dev's in princable, but and flabergasted at it's implomention.
I agree over rampent farming needed dealth with, but you fix the code, you don't threaten and punsh your CUSTOMERS. they don't like that... they tend to leave...
When you relise your badge system encourges something you don't like... you fix it... if you CAN without taking the badge whores toys away... i mean, my gosh, they are a core dimigraphic of yours, and you KNOW how they get over there badges... what are you THINKING?!
The boneheaded... kneejerk dissions of the last few weeks... have been epic... cause i agree something needed to be done... but not what has been done... not even close...
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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I also recommend you all try playing a couple of characters from 1-50 without any dev tricks, just as a normal player, to see how grindy things are. Then go on a couple of farm missions with some friends and see how fun the leveling can be in comparison.
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I level all my characters 'without any dev tricks'. I have only four 50's to show for it, but those 50s mean far more to me than any 50 I could have gotten sitting in a farm with my thumb up my [censored]. If you honestly think the game is grindy, by all means give Lineage II a try. CoH's XP curve makes Lineage II's look like a sheer cliff.
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One last time...the whole OP was directed AT THE DEVS. That includes the PS. Since when can players invoke dev tricks? And by dev tricks I was referring to auto-leveling, extra powers, free influence, etc. All the stuff they do to test random things but fails to give an accurate portrayal of the actual gameplay.
I want the devs now to buff up reading comprehension in the next patch.
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The imbalance is off-set by the common salvage going for much more now because it cannot be purchased via tickets.
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At 8 tickets for a roll to get common salvage of the category and level range of your choosing i hardly consider it impossible to purchase via tickets. That's even easier than the non-AE method of waiting for mobs to drop it. You don't even have to find mobs with the right level range and salvage category to get the types you want.
If anything, i find common salvage of the type i want easier to get with tickets.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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I also recommend you all try playing a couple of characters from 1-50 without any dev tricks, just as a normal player, to see how grindy things are. Then go on a couple of farm missions with some friends and see how fun the leveling can be in comparison.
[/ QUOTE ]
I level all my characters 'without any dev tricks'. I have only four 50's to show for it, but those 50s mean far more to me than any 50 I could have gotten sitting in a farm with my thumb up my [censored]. If you honestly think the game is grindy, by all means give Lineage II a try. CoH's XP curve makes Lineage II's look like a sheer cliff.
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One last time...the whole OP was directed AT THE DEVS. That includes the PS. Since when can players invoke dev tricks? And by dev tricks I was referring to auto-leveling, extra powers, free influence, etc. All the stuff they do to test random things but fails to give an accurate portrayal of the actual gameplay.
I want the devs now to buff up reading comprehension in the next patch.
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You're assuming that none of the developers also play the game to have fun, or that they almost exclusively rely on 'dev tricks' to break their own game.
Are you aware of what assumption makes you...?
Merely curious.
EDIT: And if one flat-out told you he did play the game 'honest', would you even believe them?
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You're assuming that none of the developers also play the game to have fun, or that they almost exclusively rely on 'dev tricks' to break their own game.
Are you aware of what assumption makes you...?
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Based on the evidence, correct.
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Your mistake was making the assumption that the devs don't play the game without their "dev tricks". MANY of the devs have already publicly stated that they have their own private accounts, and have teamed with many of us in the past, whether we knew it or not. Your post acted as if they were in an ivory tower and never interacted with the players on a player level.
Your assumption makes your entire post invalid.
DAMN YOU Yuri for beating me to it! 
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I just see players having found something that made the game fun for them again, and it really isn't affecting anyone else, and the devs wanna end it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, there you are wrong. Farming causes imbalance in the Markets for the general player. Farming Allows the RMT to get characters up to the level they can send the annoying SPAM e-mail out, and gets them more inf/goodies quicker thereby upsetting the balance of things such as the markets.
There will always be farming, but the point is that it is not what the game was made for. It is a game and the we are allowed into the world provided we abide by the rules imposed by the Devs. The end result is it is their sandbox and they can do what they want, regardless of what an RPer, PVPer or Farmer wants.
And yes, I have noticed an increase in the ammount of RMT Spam I get since the MA went live.
[/ QUOTE ]
The imbalance is off-set by the common salvage going for much more now because it cannot be purchased via tickets.
And the spammers should not be a reason to nerf ANYTHING in the game for players. Set up better filters, block IPs, etc.
And how many people are playing the game the way it was envisioned? To bring up a point I made earlier, did the devs really plan on players spending all their time in Pocket D cybering with one another? Yet there are players that do that. Did devs envision costume contests? Or beach parties? The game will always grow outside of what the devs envision, for good or bad.
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And, if you read my post, there will always be farming, but correcting a system that can be exploited to the extent that MA was being exploited, is wrong. The Devs have done things to help curtail farming or really adjusting the risk vs. reward system in the past, from Com Officers to the mole machines.
Should it have been fixed before going live? Yes it should have. They dropped the ball on that, but a lot of things make it out of beta that shouldn't.
And as far as common salvage going for so much more, I don't think that is a good thing. Prices on the market have been so out of whack as it is, to contribute to it more, thereby making items more difficult for the common average player to get creates an imbalance. Oh, and it shows the love for the Farmers.
Defcon 0 - (D4 lvl 50),DJ Shecky Cape Radio
@Shecky
Twitter: @DJ_Shecky, @siliconshecky, @thecaperadio
When you air your dirty laundry out on a clothesline above the street, everyone is allowed to snicker at the skid marks in your underoos. - Lemur_Lad
Ya'll gotta get faster on the draw. Especially you, PK! Get yo' head in da game!
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Ya'll gotta get faster on the draw. Especially you, PK! Get yo' head in da game!
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I was on the phone at the same time talking to my internet company about a billing issue and typing my response with ONE hand... YOU try to do that. 
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And while maybe not the grindiest of all time, it is worse than say WoW. (oh noes I said the "W" word)
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...Aaaaand there goes your credability. Sorry, I left WoW to play CoX exclusively, because WoW is a nightmare when it comes to grinding. You have to walk through fire to earn the ability to move 30% faster at level 30 (Nevermind epic mounts!), whereas CoX just hands you a travel power at 14, and a faster one at that!
And what was the first clue that the Devs ar RP-oriented? Maybe the fact that the have their own characters, with full storylines, and a comic series about them?
RP makes up a small portion of the community, huh? I guess that's why the second most populated server in the game is dubbed the "RP Server". No RPers here, nope.
Such a crime that the optional, $10 addon packs are RP oriented. Too bad you still get your content, powersets, new gameplay-based stuff for free every issue. Nah, the Devs don't care about content at all.
And for the record, what the hell is a "Dev Trick"?
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
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I also recommend you all try playing a couple of characters from 1-50 without any dev tricks, just as a normal player, to see how grindy things are. Then go on a couple of farm missions with some friends and see how fun the leveling can be in comparison.
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I level all my characters 'without any dev tricks'. I have only four 50's to show for it, but those 50s mean far more to me than any 50 I could have gotten sitting in a farm with my thumb up my [censored]. If you honestly think the game is grindy, by all means give Lineage II a try. CoH's XP curve makes Lineage II's look like a sheer cliff.
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One last time...the whole OP was directed AT THE DEVS. That includes the PS. Since when can players invoke dev tricks? And by dev tricks I was referring to auto-leveling, extra powers, free influence, etc. All the stuff they do to test random things but fails to give an accurate portrayal of the actual gameplay.
I want the devs now to buff up reading comprehension in the next patch.
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You're assuming that none of the developers also play the game to have fun, or that they almost exclusively rely on 'dev tricks' to break their own game.
Are you aware of what assumption makes you...?
Merely curious.
EDIT: And if one flat-out told you he did play the game 'honest', would you even believe them?
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Do I believe any of them have played the game from 1-50 as a normal player without giving in to the urge to use the power at their disposal? Nope. It gets too tedious once you get into the 30s.
...pffffBWAHAHAHA!
This game, grindier then WoW or EQ?
Comedy gold, dear sir. 8/10, not enough unreasonable rage. Work on that.
EDIT: And I've got ~4 years experience in both respective games, and am a notable fan of Asian MMOs where 'grindfest' became a policy then a mission statement. This game is probably the least grindtastic game I've come across.