Devs- Are you too RP-minded?
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2009-05-22 08:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Are you special?
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My mommy says I'm special.
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PK, everyone knows you're 'special'. 
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Laugh when you actually do it on anything other than Virtue or Freedom. I won't wait for you though.
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If you mean "i can't find a team anywhere but virtue or freedom because teaming is the only way I can level fast enough for my tastes" you should probably state that, instead of asserting that it's 'grinding' to do it any other way.
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Well aren't you an ironman? Crap, I couldn't do 1 through 50 without a team, I'd go [censored] nutso. I'm not antisocial man, I like to play with people. But even that get's boring when it's the same ol' stuff with different paint slapped on it.
MisterPiggins!
Comics Shaven Forums
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Um.... I play on Protector. I had no problems and felt no grind.
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And that playing Force Field... 
(And yes, I DID feel a grind on my FF, but I haven't on many of my other characters. Which was the point, there is always some AT and power set combination you can level quickly)
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What part of MMORPG is unclear to you?
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MMORPG = Many Men Online Role-Playing Girls...
I can see where confusion might arise.
..
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I just renewed a few days ago after not playing for several months, and then the you(the devs) start releasing all these notes about nerfing AE missions and getting rid of badges, etc. I just ran my first AE mission ever tonight to try it out since getting back. I got a couple of badges for it. The server goes down and I read the forums in the meantime and discover some of the neat new badges I just got are getting removed. This annoyed me and got me thinking about some stuff.
You seem to be catering this game more towards RPers than anyone else. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with RPers, but they seem to be the vocal ones complaining about farming and whatnot. So you are cracking down on farming now. Five years into the game and we still don't have end day content. All the expansion packs are really more geared towards RPers as they are costumes and emotes. They don't add any new playing content. Even your stated goal for MA seems to be more about getting players to write stories. Another aspect of RP.
Let's focus on the players a bit now. Really who cares about farms? It literally does not impact ANYONE. Yet you state you got numerous complaints over the farm AE missions. So what? The game is not more fun the slower it is to level. I'm not sure if this is a concept grasped by everyone on your team yet.
Many of the playerbase just want a game they can pick up and play and move up quickly to try out their nifty new powers. They want new content and not the same repetitious floorplans over and over. None of these requests are new. MA offered this and now you want to nerf it.
Maybe you focus most of your attention to the RP fanbase because their desires are cheaper and easier to implement. But they are also the smaller part of the playerbase. They may very well be sticking this game out until it dies, but is that all you are gunning for?
This isn't a request to keep farming in the game or to nerf RP. I just think you need to focus more on a balance of content for players and RPers. Please stop focusing all your decisions and releases around the RPers of the game. Look at things a bit more from the side of the player. Let's not forget the game in RPG.
PS- I also recommend you all try playing a couple of characters from 1-50 without any dev tricks, just as a normal player, to see how grindy things are. Then go on a couple of farm missions with some friends and see how fun the leveling can be in comparison.
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If you want a Dev reply instead of player opinion, I would suggest that you PM this to a Dev.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
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If you mean "i can't find a team anywhere but virtue or freedom because teaming is the only way I can level fast enough for my tastes" you should probably state that, instead of asserting that it's 'grinding' to do it any other way.
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Well aren't you an ironman? Crap, I couldn't do 1 through 50 without a team, I'd go [censored] nutso. I'm not antisocial man, I like to play with people. But even that get's boring when it's the same ol' stuff with different paint slapped on it.
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Then stop generalizing. If the game is grindy to YOU, then YOU need to do something else. The game doesn't need to cater to you, you must understand how the game's played.
All mmo's are repetitive. So?
This game's one of the most solo-friendly games around.
If you can't get a team you can still be in chat, that's what a lot of us lonely Protectorites do. We chat *constantly* while many of us are *soloing*. It makes the time go by hilariously well.
So if YOU need a team, go find a team and play. They are out there - and we've covered this in no fewer than 2 threads within the last 4 days. Don't insult anyone else's ability to play the game solo OR with a team.
Anyone in the Jello Shooters channel will tell you I'm not "antisocial" nor an "iron man" player. I'm a casual soloist. I like playing this game, and enjoying every minute of it. When I've had enough, I log. When I need to team, I ask in Shooters because I trust them to be good players and friends.
Grind?
I don't play a game that grinds.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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LMAO
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I also recommend you all try playing a couple of characters from 1-50 without any dev tricks, just as a normal player, to see how grindy things are.
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LMAOROTF@ false presumptions!
Seriously... hilarious stuff. 
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Very. My first 50 (a scrapper) took 481 hours. My first blaster took me 599. I just got my first dom to 50 in 175 hours soloing all the way.
With exp smoothing and partrol xp and other enhancements, the grind is gone.
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If I had to waste 175 hours of my life playing a game to get the the max level, I would have left this game along time ago.
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I know that this is a troll thread, but one thing that piqued my curiosity was when I came to the boilerplate "I don't actually mean any harm, even if I sound like it" disclaimer:
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This isn't a request to keep farming in the game or to nerf RP.
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How the heck does one nerf roleplaying even if one wanted to? It just doesn't make any sense conceptually. Has the meaning of the term changed completely with me being unaware of it?
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Every NPC in the game is now called "Pat" ....
RP nerfed
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If you honestly think the game is grindy, by all means give Lineage II a try
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or you could just powerlevel .....
Why do you bother PLAYING?
Seriously? If you think that putting hours into a character and *enjoying it* is impossible, why do you play? All this game IS is pretty much 'if you get to 50, make a new toon' - so... I'm curious?
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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I want the devs now to buff up reading comprehension in the next patch.
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Gah! that will definitely kill the game .... everyone will leave!!!
I know it's been well-covered already, but I gotta take a swing at a couple of these:
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Really who cares about farms? It literally does not impact ANYONE.
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When did all the farmers stop using the market? When did they stop bringing "Over-Powerd" content to the Devs' attention by running it over and over and over and over . . . . (I'm not saying Farmers are the only ones who do this, but claiming they don't contribute to it is ludicrous.)
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PS- I also recommend you all try playing a couple of characters from 1-50 without any dev tricks, just as a normal player, to see how grindy things are. Then go on a couple of farm missions with some friends and see how fun the leveling can be in comparison.
[/ QUOTE ]I've done enough Farming (pre-MArch) to know that the variety of teams, content, and action available in the regular game is WAY more fun.
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I just renewed a few days ago after not playing for several months, and then the you(the devs) start releasing all these notes about nerfing AE missions and getting rid of badges, etc. I just ran my first AE mission ever tonight to try it out since getting back. I got a couple of badges for it. The server goes down and I read the forums in the meantime and discover some of the neat new badges I just got are getting removed. This annoyed me and got me thinking about some stuff.
You seem to be catering this game more towards RPers than anyone else. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with RPers, but they seem to be the vocal ones complaining about farming and whatnot. So you are cracking down on farming now. Five years into the game and we still don't have end day content. All the expansion packs are really more geared towards RPers as they are costumes and emotes. They don't add any new playing content. Even your stated goal for MA seems to be more about getting players to write stories. Another aspect of RP.
Let's focus on the players a bit now. Really who cares about farms? It literally does not impact ANYONE. Yet you state you got numerous complaints over the farm AE missions. So what? The game is not more fun the slower it is to level. I'm not sure if this is a concept grasped by everyone on your team yet.
Many of the playerbase just want a game they can pick up and play and move up quickly to try out their nifty new powers. They want new content and not the same repetitious floorplans over and over. None of these requests are new. MA offered this and now you want to nerf it.
Maybe you focus most of your attention to the RP fanbase because their desires are cheaper and easier to implement. But they are also the smaller part of the playerbase. They may very well be sticking this game out until it dies, but is that all you are gunning for?
This isn't a request to keep farming in the game or to nerf RP. I just think you need to focus more on a balance of content for players and RPers. Please stop focusing all your decisions and releases around the RPers of the game. Look at things a bit more from the side of the player. Let's not forget the game in RPG.
PS- I also recommend you all try playing a couple of characters from 1-50 without any dev tricks, just as a normal player, to see how grindy things are. Then go on a couple of farm missions with some friends and see how fun the leveling can be in comparison.
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A couple of glaring problems with your post:
1) There more to the game than either Roleplaying or Farming. You imply that if you're not a farmer, then you must be a roleplayer.
2) Costume pieces aren't just for roleplayers. We've had only two expansion packs in the five year history of the game. I'm not sure why you bring them up.
3) No MMORPG wants their players to hit the top level quickly. You say many players just want to level up quickly. That may be true, but ALL MMORPGs are designed so that you don't hit the top levels in a couple days, only to start whining to the devs that you want more. If you don't like that time is required for a high level, then you should reconsider playing MMORPGs and maybe concentrate on Unreal Tournament.
4) The changes in MA was incredibly minor and did not nerf it.
5) This part really amazes me. You don't want them to concentrate so much on RPers, but complain that they removed some badges from the MA? 
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PS- I also recommend you all try playing a couple of characters from 1-50 without any dev tricks, just as a normal player, to see how grindy things are. Then go on a couple of farm missions with some friends and see how fun the leveling can be in comparison.
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Who is that directed towards? The devs? You're saying the devs aren't aware of how fast people level with regular content? The people who have built and improved this game over the last five years? The ones who put in all those mechanisms over the years so that players level faster than ever?
I think they're aware of how long it takes to level, and I don't think they have a problem with it. Many of us don't.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
Also, the Devs all have "civilian" accounts, that are the same as the ones we have, and do play incogneto all the time.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
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An MMORPG is a game.
CoX is a MMORPG.
CoX is a game.
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Fix'd
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Of course, the DEVs are trying to cater to everyone in the City.
Is there reason that doesn't make sense to you?
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Fix'd again
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Why are you playing CoX?
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It's a game ... I enjoy playing games I like ...
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What kind of game did you think it was?
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A game where I can fulfill my needs for massive groups of combat, powerleveling, farming, getting stuff, and oh yeah ... RP ...
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The MA was created for the making fun missions not how they could be abused for farming or PL'ing.
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Fix'd again
Seriously though, if you think that Co* is only an RP game, why are you still here? It's not.
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Why do you bother PLAYING?
Seriously? If you think that putting hours into a character and *enjoying it* is impossible, why do you play? All this game IS is pretty much 'if you get to 50, make a new toon' - so... I'm curious?
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If that's all you think this game is, why are you playing? I've gotten a toon to level 50 about 2 months ago. Guess what, I'm still playing the level 50 toon ritually for the last 2 months. I have 2 hours at the most per night to play this game, sometimes less. On the weekend, it's even harder to get playing time cause I don't work on the weekends, and I like to spend time with family then.
When I play Co* it's me time. I will play how I want to play. I have several low characters, and I don't play them because I've done all of that stuff already. Maybe when I get tired of playing my level 50's I may get around to my lower level characters again.
Then why not sound like you're actually "enjoying" the time you spend? It seems like what you have said is:
I don't have TIME for this - FAST is the only way I can play!
When ... really, there's no need to rush, since the content's here regardless of whether you've rocketed to 50 or have 50 alts.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Then why not sound like you're actually "enjoying" the time you spend? It seems like what you have said is:
I don't have TIME for this - FAST is the only way I can play!
When ... really, there's no need to rush, since the content's here regardless of whether you've rocketed to 50 or have 50 alts.
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175 hour to me is insanly long to spend on things I've already done. I'd go mad. I think the longest it's taken me, other than my first couple toons, has been about 60 hours (roughly 30 days).
Edit: Keep in mind I generally play the toon for 2-3 months after it's hit 50.
It took me over 500 hours to get my fifties, and I enjoyed them that way.
I've been playing my first 50 for 4 years, my 2nd for 3, and my third since he was created around (I think) I9. I even had to wait to make him, because of costumery parts not being available until the release of the issue. Whether you play it after or not: why rush? Why not *just play*? You make it sound like it's a job that needs to be finished on a deadline.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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near-total lack of end-game content after 5 years is a perfectly legitimate gripe to make.
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LOL. I can't take anyone seriously who says something like this.
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And yet, somehow, my heart will go on.
[/ QUOTE ]NEAR! FAR! WHevER YOU ARE!
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Warning: THE SHIP SANK!!!!!
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Crap!
/em cancels Netflix order
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Crap!
/em cancels Netflix order
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Seriously - when I saw that stupid movie, it was on TV.
Think about that for a second.
This is like a 3.5 hour long movie *in the theaters*. On TV. Where they added commercial breaks every 30 minutes (at least).
The only reason I actually wanted to watch it was David Warner was in it, and I love him so him + Victorian outfits = love.
By the end of that freaking 5 + hour long fiasco I was screaming at the TV, "SINK! SIIIIINKKKKK!"
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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It took me over 500 hours to get my fifties, and I enjoyed them that way.
I've been playing my first 50 for 4 years, my 2nd for 3, and my third since he was created around (I think) I9. I even had to wait to make him, because of costumery parts not being available until the release of the issue. Whether you play it after or not: why rush? Why not *just play*? You make it sound like it's a job that needs to be finished on a deadline.
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Not a job, but I would be bored with the toon before it hit 50 if it took that long, and then go and start another toon that would probably never make it to 50. At that point, I would find a different MMO.
The way it is now is perfect for me. Hit level 50 in a month, and have time to enjoy the toon at it's peak performance. After a few months of playing it, I'll start a new character and repeat with new powersets. As long as new powersets continue to appear, there's no problem. The Ice/SS tank I made during the AE deboccle I can see myself playing for a very long time, since it is also a PvP toon. I have a fire/kin I made almost a year ago, and I will never be tired of him.
The point is, whether it takes you 500 hours, or 60 hours to make a level 50 toon, this game supports both. That's one of the things that makes this game great, and shouldn't be changed.
I pl for several reasons pre 22 LOL i have done it so many times my eyes will bleed
26 50s 8 or so not PLed
Of those that are pled i would of never grinded up because until certain levels they would be super boring. If you level a Mind/Ta controller or a FF/Dark defender up with out PLing i salute you.
The devs change builds so many times since i have started playing some of the fun toons i build and spent couple hundred hours no longer feel fun to me, this is especially true when it comes to toons i have for pvp.
I do believe some of them don't actually level as much as they should to get an understanding of the game. I mean right now hibernate's animation is the ice hold animation, means someone just picked out a animation from a list and slapped it on instead of actually checking it out in the internal server. There are tons of these issues around. I mean who would of thought badgers would farm BADGES that you put 50,000 kill count on, yes higher than the old rikti monkey badge. I would love to see Matt Miller getting the 50,000 test badge the way it was intended to be granted with no farm.
You make things nigh impossible to get people will farm to get those rewards, another example is Born In Battle, it took 3 and half YEARS for me to earn the 4th damage badge on my first toon i play often. How do you expect anyone to get this badge for an accolade in a reasonable time frame? Im not sure if they fixed this or not but it used to be if you had any +hp from anywhere when dealt damage, it didn't count till it was under your base HP. I mean seriously when i FARM for BiB i use a secondary build now, (love those second builds btw) and camp over 3 or so days in a rikti mission when i go to bed or work.
the best way to fix farming is to shut down the game
I mean i wouldn't mind a guild wars make an instant lvl 50 that can only pvp and you have to unlock sets that you get for free either by i dont know PVPing or even getting badges on other toons.
I wouldn't have to re roll every issue when they destroy a set in pvp
I dont RP i dont like it i think its silly, i will not try to stop you from RPing just leave me alone
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It took me over 500 hours to get my fifties, and I enjoyed them that way.
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Good for you. Unfortunately not everyone is you. Different people, different desires, abilities, needs and wants.
Newsflash not everyone wants to take 500 hours slogging through low level content to get to 50.
I'll let you on another little secret, If I had of thought after doing it that way once I would have had to do the same again, I would have switched to online battleship immediately. People talk about burnout from leveling to fast, well its nothing compared to the mass exodus you would see from the other extreme.
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Are you laughing at day being used instead of game? Anyway, yeah, we don't have end game.
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Already covered, look up. We have TONS of end game comment.
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Hami raid and the big hero or villain taskforces? We need more than that.
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RPers make up a good chunk of the population, but they're nowhere near the majority. I could log in right now and not find a single one anywhere except Virtue, and even then probably not that many anyway. Of course they could all be hiding from the 'hideous and evil' farmers and the 'almost as bad' regular players.
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I never said they were the majority, I'm only laughing at someone saying that they are a SMALL community. They are not.
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You need to use more detail when you reply to somebody then. Also, they are comparatively small compared to the rest of the game. Not insignificant! But still, not where the focus should remain.
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Laugh when you actually do it on anything other than Virtue or Freedom. I won't wait for you though.
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Um.... I play on Protector. I had no problems and felt no grind.
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Either you had a nice setup, or really like repetition.
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Are you special?
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My mommy says I'm special.
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That's way it should be
MisterPiggins!
Comics Shaven Forums