Devs- Are you too RP-minded?
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2009-05-22 08:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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We HAVE it. Now whether you LIKE what we have or not is your own perogative. To say that we DON'T HAVE end game content is just plain silly. I'm counting hours and hours worth of content there, possibly days or month's worth.
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You play on protector, just how often do those Hamidon raids or shadow shard TFs happen there ?
The only people who NEED to know the "law" in this case are the Devs and the GMs.
People who exploit and farm those exploits *know that they are doing so*. It's not an accident. They are the ones who will and have been smacked down for it - they are breaking the rules which have been stated.
Farming itself is NOT the issue. Exploiting something IS. Exploiting in order to powerlevel past the game in light-speed fashion IS against the devs' wishes.
And believe it or not: we do not have the right to dictate what they want us to do. Period. Our fifteen bucks a month allows us access to THEIR game, THEIR program, THEIR hardware space and THEIR bandwidth. It allows us to bicker here on the forums. But it doesn't give us stock in the company, and it doesn't give us a vote because this ain't a democracy. We have to play by their rules - period. If you don't want to know what the rules are, it doesn't mean the rules aren't still there and being enforced.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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We HAVE it. Now whether you LIKE what we have or not is your own perogative. To say that we DON'T HAVE end game content is just plain silly. I'm counting hours and hours worth of content there, possibly days or month's worth.
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You play on protector, just how often do those Hamidon raids or shadow shard TFs happen there ?
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We're doing the Quarterfield TF tomorrow - possibly even two teams worth.
We just did a rikti raid - weekly as always for the last year or more - the other day.
Protector was first among the servers to do a lot of things, where have YOU been?
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Well the game could charge character upkeep for a start. Which would be a nice nerf to RPERS that hang around emoting or that slow down the game with keybound speaches about their high principles or low ambitions.
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Ok LOL i am not an RP'er I have Bio's for most of my toons. Have a few key binds, nothing lengthy by any sense of the word, but wow now we are really getting silly. Charging character upkeep lol? C'mon
I thought we were getting bonuses for sitting around... logging out and getting easy xp - gosh, in locations where RP is common!
*shakes head* I don't know quite what is wrong with another_fan but I hope it isn't contagious.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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The only people who NEED to know the "law" in this case are the Devs and the GMs.
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I can't imagine how that statement could be more wrong. But I would suggest you take it up with the level pacters.
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And believe it or not: we do not have the right to dictate what they want us to do.
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That isn't the question. The question is do they have the implied right to dictate how the game is to be played. Do they have the moral authority to play bait and switch games with their customers. They may be able to for at least a little while, but to borrow from Lincoln "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."
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You play on protector, just how often do those Hamidon raids or shadow shard TFs happen there ?
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Plenty!
I also run them myself once in a while... *points at sig*
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Well the game could charge character upkeep for a start. Which would be a nice nerf to RPERS that hang around emoting or that slow down the game with keybound speaches about their high principles or low ambitions.
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Ok LOL i am not an RP'er I have Bio's for most of my toons. Have a few key binds, nothing lengthy by any sense of the word, but wow now we are really getting silly. Charging character upkeep lol? C'mon
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LOL why not ?? It even makes good sense from a RP* standpoint. You have to maintain your gear, practice your powers, cultivate sources of information. Inf as upkeep nicely represents that.
*This just goes to show you, that you can argue anything for RP reasons even the destruction of RPing in the game.
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You play on protector, just how often do those Hamidon raids or shadow shard TFs happen there ?
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Plenty!
I also run them myself once in a while... *points at sig*
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So do I, the last Hami raid was months ago. There was even a thread in the forums complaining where they went.
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That isn't the question. The question is do they have the implied right to dictate how the game is to be played.
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Yes, they do. They developed it, and the eula specifically states our rights.
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Do they have the moral authority to play bait and switch games with their customers.
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"Bait and switch?" Where? Define it, show me where they're telling us we're getting one thing specifically and then where in the game it's not happening and is in fact something else? I think you're not using the right term, but whatever you're thinking, I suspect you don't know the first thing about it...
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They may be able to for at least a little while, but to borrow from Lincoln "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."
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But who is foolish when they simply break the rules that are stated? The rules aren't there to hinder your playing - they're there to make the game FUN for AS MANY AS POSSIBLE.
So if a few people start screwing it up for the rest of us, you better believe those people are the ones going to get the smackdown.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Well the game could charge character upkeep for a start. Which would be a nice nerf to RPERS that hang around emoting or that slow down the game with keybound speaches about their high principles or low ambitions.
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Ok LOL i am not an RP'er I have Bio's for most of my toons. Have a few key binds, nothing lengthy by any sense of the word, but wow now we are really getting silly. Charging character upkeep lol? C'mon
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LOL why not ?? It even makes good sense from a RP* standpoint. You have to maintain your gear, practice your powers, cultivate sources of information. Inf as upkeep nicely represents that.
*This just goes to show you, that you can argue anything for RP reasons even the destruction of RPing in the game.
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Why not because I have better things to spend my influence on such as making my toons more playable, and not having to worry about degrading equipment or slipping powers because I havent practiced them is one of the reasons I play CoH.
If I wanted to spend all of my hard earned influence on stupid garbage like that I would go play WoW or CO. Personally I prefer it this way. So I play CoH.
Good question though lol.
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But who is foolish when they simply break the rules that are stated? The rules aren't there to hinder your playing - they're there to make the game FUN for AS MANY AS POSSIBLE.
So if a few people start screwing it up for the rest of us, you better believe those people are the ones going to get the smackdown
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The only place rpers aren't the few is virtue, and even there they aren't a majority.
Your assumptions about the game are in error and you proceed from them to false conclusions.
Um... Role players aren't the problem here. At all. I don't know what planet you're from, but on the one that I play City of Heroes on, using the "rpers are ruining my farming" excuse is pretty stupid.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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On the question of grinding, isn't that just a simple fact of playing the same game over and over again?
Granted, I'm new to the MMO scene (six month vet reward by the end of the weekend), but essentially each instance is the same, no?
Enter the combat area. Fight baddies. Get some rewards. Repeat.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, but isn't grinding kinda the point of any conventional MMO?
I used to play RTS games a lot, but lost interest after it became gather resources, build army, attack, repeat.
Yes, obviously there are tactics involved, just as there are in this game. But, the fundamental mechanics remain the same. I can't imagine that any other conventional MMO out there
right now is any different.
As far as PL'ng goes, I simply can't see it as a way to avoid the grind. It is simply what it appears to be, an effort to achieve the rewards as quickly as possible, with as little risk as possible.
I can't imagine that the goal is to get a Level 50 for the end game content, since it's simply the same game again, but at a higher setting. Maybe it's to get a fully tricked out PvP alt, but does this imply that PvP is reduced to simply who has the bestest and highest level powers. Seems to me that's more math than game. But, I don't PvP, so I might be off on that score.
I guess all I'm saying is that I don't see PL'ng as a means to achieve a goal, I think it is the goal itself.
That being said, I really don't see anything wrong with it. I am capable of ignoring Broadcast requests for AE farms. The market fluctuates and self-corrects, just as I'm sure it did before AE.
The only problem I see with PL'ng and farming (never sure how to distinguish the two) is that the Devs specifically indicated that they did not want such things to happen with AE. I don't have to agree with them, I don't have to like it, but in the end I do have to go along with it.
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Um... Role players aren't the problem here. At all. I don't know what planet you're from, but on the one that I play City of Heroes on, using the "rpers are ruining my farming" excuse is pretty stupid.
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Oh, I agree, but it's just as asinine as claiming that "farmers are ruining my rp."
@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too
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Um... Role players aren't the problem here. At all. I don't know what planet you're from, but on the one that I play City of Heroes on, using the "rpers are ruining my farming" excuse is pretty stupid.
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Oh, I agree, but it's just as assinine as claiming that "farmers are ruining my rp."
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Well, I will agree there, but it's been a very confusing argument so far lol.
Sploiters are ruining all of our game, not farmers, nor even powerlevelers.
It's like in other games, where it's more or less essential to have a character in a guild doing all the tailoring or whatever mundane task required to put money in the coffer. Someone does it very well, that's great.
Then someone else finds a way to dupe rares, or whatever, and suddenly the economy of the game is out of whack, and unfortunately there's rarely a way to take one specific thing that's being abused out without affecting a good amount of the surrounding program. Yes, it's a little like cutting an arm off to stop the frostbite on the fingertip, but unfortunately it's easier to do that than it is to convince even one hacker or lazy exploiter to stop what they're doing.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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On the question of grinding, isn't that just a simple fact of playing the same game over and over again?
Granted, I'm new to the MMO scene (six month vet reward by the end of the weekend), but essentially each instance is the same, no?
Enter the combat area. Fight baddies. Get some rewards. Repeat.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, but isn't grinding kinda the point of any conventional MMO?
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That depends. If you view every enemy as the same and every character you make as the same, then yes.
If you see variety in the opponents you choose to go up against as well as make a variety of characters it is far less grindy feeling.
Throw in teaming with different people and you get more mix.
I don't think it is the same to have a stalker go up against Malta as a tanker against Circle of Thorns but if you state it generically as you did then every computer game could be summed up as:
Turn on computer. Play games. Shut down computer.
Every TV show:
Turn on TV. Sit and watch. Turn off TV.
Every meal:
Sit down. Eat stuff. Poop. 
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Um... Role players aren't the problem here. At all. I don't know what planet you're from, but on the one that I play City of Heroes on, using the "rpers are ruining my farming" excuse is pretty stupid.
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Oh, I agree, but it's just as assinine as claiming that "farmers are ruining my rp."
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Well, I will agree there, but it's been a very confusing argument so far lol.
Sploiters are ruining all of our game, not farmers, nor even powerlevelers.
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And it is this confusion that is getting folks bent out of shape.
Exploiters are the problem, not farmers. The confusion stems from the fact that exploiters use farming to do their dirty work, as it is the most efficient way to reach their ends. It is likely that a large number of farmers know exploiters, so when the exploiters went ballistic over being targeted, their hysteria swept through the farming community like wildfire. Of course, the exploiters claimed that they were innocent farmers themselves, rather than admit to their guilt. Not knowing that their friends were exploiting the system for all it was worth, the farmers backed up their acquaintances and farming brethren, resulting in the current us vs. them mentality that has split our community.
The Architect is the center of the rp vs. farmer debate. Farmers could really care less if the rpers rp'd anywhere. Rpers could care less if the farmers farmed the Dev content ad infinitum, ad nauseum. Rpers are complaining that farming is twisting the AE system, which it is, and this is the only place where farmers can honestly say that rpers are "ruining their farming." However, since the Devs stated that they would not let the Architect be used for farming from the moment it was announced, and this has ben restated numerous times, I don't think the farmers have a leg to stand on in regards to their fued with the rpers over the Architect.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Life:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>be_born();
while(!dead) {
do_stuff();
go_to_sleep();
wake_up();
}
echo "Rosebud...";
exit 0;</pre><hr />
The ultimate grind.
Still, it has it's moments, doesn't it?
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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My thought was more "how is ignoring warnings considered a vindication for doing something dumb?"
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there's a difference between glazing over the safety bit in an owner's manual and sticking your tongue into woodchipper after being told it will do terrible things to your face
i'm of the opinion that this falls into the former category since every warning was either out of the way or accompanied by other text that no one really wanted to read
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Ignorance of the law is not a legal excuse for breaking the law.
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I get a kick out of the stunningly willful suspension of common sense exhibited by many of the recent posters in these threads too.
For example, how ridiculous is someone saying 'they left it in the game and I may have abused it but its their fault!'.
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LOL I get a kick out of people who trot out "ignorance of the law is no excuse"
When the law is "You know it when you see it"
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So are you saying that you don't have common sense? Its a perfectly reasonable excuse for how you are perceiving the events of i14, so I'm seriously asking?
There are other rationalizations or excuses you could have but my initial thinking on them is that they are less flattering than a lack of common sense as it is one of the few core things that can be learned or taught.
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I seriously laughed my [censored] off reading this post.
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Five years into the game and we still don't have end day content.
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lol
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Are you laughing at day being used instead of game? Anyway, yeah, we don't have end game.
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But they are also the smaller part of the playerbase.
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LMAO
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RPers make up a good chunk of the population, but they're nowhere near the majority. I could log in right now and not find a single one anywhere except Virtue, and even then probably not that many anyway. Of course they could all be hiding from the 'hideous and evil' farmers and the 'almost as bad' regular players.
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I also recommend you all try playing a couple of characters from 1-50 without any dev tricks, just as a normal player, to see how grindy things are.
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LMAOROTF@ false presumptions!
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Laugh when you actually do it on anything other than Virtue or Freedom. I won't wait for you though.
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Seriously... hilarious stuff. 
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Are you special?
Anyway, I know a few people who actually came back to the game for AE. For doing custom missions, but also to have some fun with each other leveling. Now they're lining up to leave again, we don't team anymore. Because of this. I know this isn't indicative of everybody but I know there are people on their way out of this game. I wonder how many subscribers this silliness is going to cost the game.
But I know even if Paragon becomes a ghost town, some of you still won't be bothered. At least this horrible broadcasts are gone and nobody's ruining your marketplace (on heroside anyway, villain side will always be borked).
MisterPiggins!
Comics Shaven Forums
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Are you laughing at day being used instead of game? Anyway, yeah, we don't have end game.
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Already covered, look up. We have TONS of end game comment.
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RPers make up a good chunk of the population, but they're nowhere near the majority. I could log in right now and not find a single one anywhere except Virtue, and even then probably not that many anyway. Of course they could all be hiding from the 'hideous and evil' farmers and the 'almost as bad' regular players.
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I never said they were the majority, I'm only laughing at someone saying that they are a SMALL community. They are not.
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Laugh when you actually do it on anything other than Virtue or Freedom. I won't wait for you though.
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Um.... I play on Protector. I had no problems and felt no grind.
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Are you special?
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My mommy says I'm special.
Did you think you were renewing your subscription to an MMORPG, a first person shooter, or City of Farmers
( http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...age=0&vc=1 )?
An MMORPG is a RP'ing game.
CoX is a MMORPG.
CoX is a RP'ing game.
Of course, the DEVs are trying to cater to the RP'rs in the City.
Is there reason that doesn't make sense to you?
Why dress up in a costume (even street clothes - you can pick your look) in a "super hero" world with a character that has "super powers" unless you wanted to RP being a super-hero, super-villian, or super being in a super-heroic world?
Why are you playing CoX?
What kind of game did you think it was?
It's a serious question.
The MA was created for the RP'ing of the missions not how they could be abused for farming or PL'ing.
If the DEVs wanted a way to PL characters they could give everyone the option to level up to what ever level they wanted to at any trainer.
If the DEVs wanted to improve the rewards of farming, they could give everyone free access (easy harvest) to any thing they wanted. All they player would have to do was click on it.
Does that make a good game?
Perhaps we should add more RP to first-person shooter multi-player games?
How about RP situations in "real-time" simulation games?
I am honestly shocked at how often players complain about RP'ing in an RP'ing game.
It just proves again how much demand there really is out there for City of Farmers ( http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...age=0&vc=1 )
Yeah. I'm still as serious as with my original post about how much demand there would be for City of Farmers.
I do not agree with the players that say it would clear the City proper of a majority of players.
I think that it would give farmers what they want and allow the City proper to be use what it was intended for - RP'ing being a super and playing RP related content.
Though the DEV content is mostly about Signature characters and their exploits, the MA opens the door for player character and supergroup related missions - and missions that have nothing to do with player characters or signature characters (and that is a huge area).
As far as I know MA created content has far surpassed the amount of DEV created content in the game.
It is a shame that it can be hard to be find MA content that is truly what it was intended to be because the instances of abuse are so abundant.
RP isn't a four-letter word in a MMORPG. RP is what it is about.
Of course, the DEVs cater to the RP'rs.
It really shouldn't shock you or anyone else in the least bit.
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Laugh when you actually do it on anything other than Virtue or Freedom. I won't wait for you though.
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Seriously, what game are YOU playing? Because the servers, to my best recollection... are all the same program.
I solo. I've soloed 3 50s, I'm in the process of soloing a 4th. On Protector. Where the others are.
I am not grinding. If the game felt grindy to me? I'd leave. The game isn't more or less so on any given server, please - that's mad.
If you mean "i can't find a team anywhere but virtue or freedom because teaming is the only way I can level fast enough for my tastes" you should probably state that, instead of asserting that it's 'grinding' to do it any other way.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Alot of your more anti-social players are badgers.
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>_> ALL the badge-hunters I know are very, very active, very social, group oriented folks. Just saying.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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