Discussion: Super Booster II: Magic Details!
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2009-04-08 18:20 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Forgive me if this is too obvious, but if they look that bad, why not simply prohibit certain ATs or power sets from taking them?
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Let me clarify something here, because everyones taking Posis joke about Martial Arts a bit too literally. The only animations that robes look okay with are the basically the ones where you stand around fully upright. So the idle animations, a handful of powers, and a number of emotes. They get trashed pretty quickly the second you go into even a basic combat stance, much less something as extreme as taking a knee to rest. There are numerous core animations (animations that are shared between all player characters) that would be problematic with attempting to add full length robes to our current player model skeletons. That's before even getting into specific powersets or ATs.
This is not a limitation because of Martial Arts. Its an issue with all player characters.
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Forgive me if this is too obvious, but if they look that bad, why not simply prohibit certain ATs or power sets from taking them?
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Let me clarify something here, because everyones taking Posis joke about Martial Arts a bit too literally. The only animations that robes look okay with are the basically the ones where you stand around fully upright. So the idle animations, a handful of powers, and a number of emotes. They get trashed pretty quickly the second you go into even a basic combat stance, much less something as extreme as taking a knee to rest. There are numerous core animations (animations that are shared between all player characters) that would be problematic with attempting to add full length robes to our current player model skeletons. That's before even getting into specific powersets or ATs.
This is not a limitation because of Martial Arts. Its an issue with all player characters.
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Thanks for the clarification BaBs! I figured it was a lot more than just one powerset that would screw up robes.
Also, good to see you back on the boards!
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*thinks about "/e yoga" and cringes* Yup, there's one emote you just couldn't do in robes.
I'm fine with it, I will definitely be buying this, hopefully I'll have moneys. 
Least my sub is yearly, so I will happily pay ten extra for this. Looks *great*.
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As of Issue 14, there are 5, 313 animations in the game. 2,246 for the “male” rig, 700 for “female”, and 720 for “huge”.
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Curious, why the order of magnitude disrepancy?
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Forgive me if this is too obvious, but if they look that bad, why not simply prohibit certain ATs or power sets from taking them?
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Let me clarify something here, because everyones taking Posis joke about Martial Arts a bit too literally. The only animations that robes look okay with are the basically the ones where you stand around fully upright. So the idle animations, a handful of powers, and a number of emotes. They get trashed pretty quickly the second you go into even a basic combat stance, much less something as extreme as taking a knee to rest. There are numerous core animations (animations that are shared between all player characters) that would be problematic with attempting to add full length robes to our current player model skeletons. That's before even getting into specific powersets or ATs.
This is not a limitation because of Martial Arts. Its an issue with all player characters.
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So how come it works with Tsoo and Liches? Do they not have legs under there? The only emote I've seen the Lich clearly break is ;crouch.
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Forgive me if this is too obvious, but if they look that bad, why not simply prohibit certain ATs or power sets from taking them?
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Let me clarify something here, because everyones taking Posis joke about Martial Arts a bit too literally. The only animations that robes look okay with are the basically the ones where you stand around fully upright. So the idle animations, a handful of powers, and a number of emotes. They get trashed pretty quickly the second you go into even a basic combat stance, much less something as extreme as taking a knee to rest. There are numerous core animations (animations that are shared between all player characters) that would be problematic with attempting to add full length robes to our current player model skeletons. That's before even getting into specific powersets or ATs.
This is not a limitation because of Martial Arts. Its an issue with all player characters.
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So why can't you guys just make a special set of animations for anyone in a rob, such that anyone who takes a robe costume piece never moves their legs more than with small steps. I mean, you'd only have to make special versions of what, 80 or 90 percent of the animations? That doesn't seem so bad...
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As of Issue 14, there are 5, 313 animations in the game. 2,246 for the “male” rig, 700 for “female”, and 720 for “huge”.
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Curious, why the order of magnitude disrepancy?
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By default, everyone (player characters) use the Male animations. The Female and Huge animations are there specifically to override the Male animations, when the animators (or animator as the case may be) specifically want to create a different animation, usually for appearance or stylistic reasons (for example, the running animations are not all the same).
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Forgive me if this is too obvious, but if they look that bad, why not simply prohibit certain ATs or power sets from taking them?
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Let me clarify something here, because everyones taking Posis joke about Martial Arts a bit too literally. The only animations that robes look okay with are the basically the ones where you stand around fully upright. So the idle animations, a handful of powers, and a number of emotes. They get trashed pretty quickly the second you go into even a basic combat stance, much less something as extreme as taking a knee to rest. There are numerous core animations (animations that are shared between all player characters) that would be problematic with attempting to add full length robes to our current player model skeletons. That's before even getting into specific powersets or ATs.
This is not a limitation because of Martial Arts. Its an issue with all player characters.
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So why can't you guys just make a special set of animations for anyone in a rob, such that anyone who takes a robe costume piece never moves their legs more than with small steps. I mean, you'd only have to make special versions of what, 80 or 90 percent of the animations? That doesn't seem so bad...
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5,400*.8=4320animations...
Although, that adds up to about 3670 based off the numbers BackAlleyBrawler gave in his first post for Male/Female/Huge, which *.8 still gives you about 3000 animations.
For a single costume piece.
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This is an awesome set I plan to buy ASAP. Keep up the awesome, Jay!
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2 possible fixes for the robes (that i'm sure won't work but maybe will help inspire?):
1: Instead of a single robe that covers the entire body, perhaps it should be split up among multiple body parts, so to have a full wizzard robe one would have to select a robe option for chest, arms, bottoms and feet individually, that way the robe could "stretch" around each individual body part like skirts and kilts do.
2: If that doesn't work... What about a split robe, asian style where the robe is closed at the chest but open at the sides of the legs? Kinda like wearing 2 trenchcoats or capes one backwards. There could even be 2 variants, one starting at the shoulders and one at the waist.
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Forgive me if this is too obvious, but if they look that bad, why not simply prohibit certain ATs or power sets from taking them?
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Let me clarify something here, because everyones taking Posis joke about Martial Arts a bit too literally. The only animations that robes look okay with are the basically the ones where you stand around fully upright. So the idle animations, a handful of powers, and a number of emotes. They get trashed pretty quickly the second you go into even a basic combat stance, much less something as extreme as taking a knee to rest. There are numerous core animations (animations that are shared between all player characters) that would be problematic with attempting to add full length robes to our current player model skeletons. That's before even getting into specific powersets or ATs.
This is not a limitation because of Martial Arts. Its an issue with all player characters.
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So why can't you guys just make a special set of animations for anyone in a rob, such that anyone who takes a robe costume piece never moves their legs more than with small steps. I mean, you'd only have to make special versions of what, 80 or 90 percent of the animations? That doesn't seem so bad...
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You have to factor in not only power animations across all the sets, but also the flight animations, combat flight animations, jump animations, combat jumping animations, emotes, damage reaction animations, mez animations, and probably more that I'm not consciously aware of.
And that's just on the basic male model. Then you have to get in to custom animations for the females and the males.
We have people that can probably do the math and explain it faster than I can think of all the possible new animations that would have to be created.
Frankly, I'd much rather have the Animator(s) and Costume folks working on something a bit less stressful and time consuming. I'm sure they haven't been just sitting around twiddling their thumbs of late, so I'm sure BAB and Co. will have something to amaze us with Soon.
Oh look, someone already beat me to the math.
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This is an awesome set I plan to buy ASAP. Keep up the awesome, Jay!
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2 possible fixes for the robes (that i'm sure won't work but maybe will help inspire?):
1: Instead of a single robe that covers the entire body, perhaps it should be split up among multiple body parts, so to have a full wizzard robe one would have to select a robe option for chest, arms, bottoms and feet individually, that way the robe could "stretch" around each individual body part like skirts and kilts do.
2: If that doesn't work... What about a split robe, asian style where the robe is closed at the chest but open at the sides of the legs? Kinda like wearing 2 trenchcoats or capes one backwards. There could even be 2 variants, one starting at the shoulders and one at the waist.
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A Waist Cape? Are you serious? The Devs would have to be out of their minds to implement a costume piece and call it a Waist Cape.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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It's the Wicked hat!
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Totally! I can't wait to get that hat for my blaster to use instead of the Cabal hat, for her Elphaba costume. (You see, my blaster has a obsession with the wicked witch of the west heh)
Now all Jennica will need is a flying monkey to sit on her shoulder (she currently has a flying kitten that dresses up as the flying monkey when she's in her "witch" costume). HAHA.
This game gives some great opportunities to be original but whenever a costume "set" is released, suddenly everyone is wearing that costume set from head to toe and all the heroes in the city look the same despite the mind boggling possibilities. in. the. trillions.
I can already hear the insistent, drooling, braying of the sheep who just cant wait to conform.
Jay, try this, release dozens of costume parts that are just simple shapes and then add dozens of patters and textures which can be added to them in different sections and colored.
Rather than making costume sets which dont go well with anything except for the other peaces of that particular set, give creative control over to the players. Give them the forms and let them make it ruffled, reflective, furry, bejeweled, patched, hightech 1, leather, hightech 2,embroidered, ancient, bio-oganic, or what have you.
For those that arnt very savy with the costume creator and just cant put these things together...Well, you already have the premade costumes from the dropdown box which are at least competent. I thought that is what that thing was for, you know, uncreative meatheads.
Costume "sets" dumb down the possibilities of this wonderful tool , show a failure to recognize its potential and needlessly limit the creative control of the player.
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Having a "Would you like your fortune told?" pop-up with "yes or no" would be better. That way you can only take the risk voluntarily.
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I'm sure that's how they've done it. Look at the wording:
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With the Mystic Fortune power players will be able to offer to read each others fortunes.
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Sounds good to me, then. /e thumbsup
Dec out.
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They get trashed pretty quickly the second you go into even a basic combat stance, much less something as extreme as taking a knee to rest. There are numerous core animations (animations that are shared between all player characters) that would be problematic with attempting to add full length robes to our current player model skeletons.
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While I can't say I've seen the Tsoo , Lich or Oni do anything too terrible with them, I can see where the problem might arise. From what I've seen of Robes, they're only really attached at the waist and at the ankles, but not at the knees. That's why you sometimes get the effect where one side of the "stretched skirt" will clip through the other, or where the knees will clip below the bottom line of the robe.
Still, I can't say it wouldn't be nice to get something that works some day.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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Well it's not just that. The Devs long ago said that they would never release items like this for free that we initially had to pay for.
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Never believe anyone who says "never". 
Dec out.
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This game gives some great opportunities to be original but whenever a costume "set" is released, suddenly everyone is wearing that costume set from head to toe and all the heroes in the city look the same despite the mind boggling possibilities. in. the. trillions.
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I actually like that. Makes my far less generic costumes stand out more.
Dec out.
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This game gives some great opportunities to be original but...*snip*
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I disagree. I find that the pieces from the costume sets can be combined in several different ways. The only parts that do not seem to mix well across sets are the chest and legs - since it doesn't seem like there's very many sets which actually appear as the same colour, when the same colour is selected for both. Very often seems to be mismatched.
That being said, I think that you're right, some new relatively basic shapes and textures to work with would be great, especially for doing classic super hero designs.
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So how come it works with Tsoo and Liches? Do they not have legs under there? The only emote I've seen the Lich clearly break is ;crouch.
(Nice to have you back posting now that Lent is over. {We're in Triduum now.})
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I'm pretty sure they, in fact, do NOT have legs under there. The robes are part of the skeleton.
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I like the new outfits and will definitely get the booster as I have gotten the others. Two issues I do have though.
1) The announcement mentions robes.. I dont see any actual robe in the screenshots. "A robe is a loose-fitting outer garment. A robe is distinguished from a cape or cloak by the fact that it usually has sleeves."
Robes like the Tsoo and CoT. Now, those ARE robes. Folks have been begging for REAL robes and long gowns for YEARS!
2) "Having your fortune read gives a power buff based on the Major Arcana of the Tarot, and can give a positive or negative effect on that character for the next 20 minutes."
Please tell me that I can say no to someone reading my fortune. Drive by Speed Boosts and Bubbling is annoying enough. Now we can get hit with something that has the possibility of debuffing me for 20 minutes? No thanks.
Edit: Ignore issue two as I finally had the chance to read a bizzillion pages into the thread and found castles mention of the confirm action
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Use the Dev Digest, saves lots of time. Still, the popup to accept or turn down fortune readings will quickly become as or more annoying than random invite popups.
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Subject: Super Booster II: Magic Details!
[*]Mystic Fortune Power:
Ever wanted to have your fortune read in game? With the Mystic Fortune power players will be able to offer to read each others fortunes. Having your fortune read gives a power buff based on the Major Arcana of the Tarot, and can give a positive or negative effect on that character for the next 20 minutes.
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I sure hope the effects of this power are deletable before 20 minutes ... I don't want some terd I don't know, running up to me, using their power, and now i'm debuffed for the next 20 minutes with no way to prevent it/remove it.
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The effect is NOT deletable, however, you are given a confirmation as to whether or not you accept having your fortune told. If you say 'No,' you get no fortune and the person who cast it now has to wait the full recharge time to try again.
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...so it's a power that's never going to get used because nobody's going to want to chance getting a bad debuff for 20 minutes that they can't remove. Awesome!
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Subject: Super Booster II: Magic Details!
[*]Mystic Fortune Power:
Ever wanted to have your fortune read in game? With the Mystic Fortune power players will be able to offer to read each others fortunes. Having your fortune read gives a power buff based on the Major Arcana of the Tarot, and can give a positive or negative effect on that character for the next 20 minutes.
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I sure hope the effects of this power are deletable before 20 minutes ... I don't want some terd I don't know, running up to me, using their power, and now i'm debuffed for the next 20 minutes with no way to prevent it/remove it.
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The effect is NOT deletable, however, you are given a confirmation as to whether or not you accept having your fortune told. If you say 'No,' you get no fortune and the person who cast it now has to wait the full recharge time to try again.
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...so it's a power that's never going to get used because nobody's going to want to chance getting a bad debuff for 20 minutes that they can't remove. Awesome!
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I can see griefing with this one. I really do.
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Subject: Super Booster II: Magic Details!
[*]Mystic Fortune Power:
Ever wanted to have your fortune read in game? With the Mystic Fortune power players will be able to offer to read each others fortunes. Having your fortune read gives a power buff based on the Major Arcana of the Tarot, and can give a positive or negative effect on that character for the next 20 minutes.
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I sure hope the effects of this power are deletable before 20 minutes ... I don't want some terd I don't know, running up to me, using their power, and now i'm debuffed for the next 20 minutes with no way to prevent it/remove it.
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The effect is NOT deletable, however, you are given a confirmation as to whether or not you accept having your fortune told. If you say 'No,' you get no fortune and the person who cast it now has to wait the full recharge time to try again.
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...so it's a power that's never going to get used because nobody's going to want to chance getting a bad debuff for 20 minutes that they can't remove. Awesome!
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I can see griefing with this one. I really do.
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Given the confirmation dialog, I don't. But I still see it as being useless. Unless the debuffs are minor and the buffs are really good, but that'd make it too good for an item pack power.
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Yeah, it basically comes down to the fact that there are certain powersets (coughmartialartscough) that make true "wizard robes" impossible to animate. Jay explained this as much in the Q&A at HeroCon.
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Forgive me if this is too obvious, but if they look that bad, why not simply prohibit certain ATs or power sets from taking them? Fire Controllers already can't take Talsorian Broadswords.
It'd be different if "robes are going live as soon as we iron out the last few problems". If they're impossible to mesh with Martial Arts, just give up on meshing them with Martial Arts and make them for everybody else.
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Frankly? I'd rather they just put them in and let us decide if they look really bad.
Limiting them by powerset or worse, AT, screws up a lot of potentially creative uses for robes; and some people are willing to put up with more clipping than others.
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