Live Patch -- 1.22.09: Discussion!
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I reported as a bug and petitioned the following as well:
Last night I stumbled across base to brainstorm conversions and brainstorm to invention conversions were not counting towards my crafting badges (Artisan, Master Artisan, etc.). No news there.
But what also happened was my villain who had done all that brainstorm work didn't get credit for 12 enhancements he crafted from his memorized list. I popped over to a hero on another server and crafted one enhancement from his memorized list which also didn't give him credit.
This afternoon the hero has his count increased by 1 but the villain's count remains where it was before I did my crafting last night. So while the hero may have been a lag issue, the villain remains a mystery.
Perhaps because he had done brainstorm conversions and the hero hadn't?
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Or they may have tweaked something, added bugs, and in the process, broke stuff, so it might all be a bug. Wish we could get an official answer on at least how it's supposed to now work.
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We are currently investigating this issue. It does look like a patch note was missed in regards to brainstorm ideas not translating to badge counts. We are looking further at whether the overall badges have been affected by this change.
I'll keep you updated.
Ex
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Patch note missed sounds like "working as intended". And let me guess, the devs will not choose to comment on this either.
Do the devs think that they've got a big bunch of new people coming in so they don't need the old players?
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It's not a huge leap in logic to assume that.
What's with beating up on badgers? They are typically people that play every aspect of the game to the point of occassional monotony. I'm not sure why they'd want to push that portion of the community away.
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If it were me I wouldn't be silent on the reasoning behind this change. To me this change makes no sense.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I am SO glad True Shot got that badge over christmas break with Brain Storms. I'll NEVER do that badge ever again on any character (even if Brain Storms still worked.)
Mr. True Shot.
Level 53: Arrows/Devices/Munitions Blaster
....and hopeless Science-Natzi.
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Or they may have tweaked something, added bugs, and in the process, broke stuff, so it might all be a bug. Wish we could get an official answer on at least how it's supposed to now work.
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We are currently investigating this issue. It does look like a patch note was missed in regards to brainstorm ideas not translating to badge counts. We are looking further at whether the overall badges have been affected by this change.
I'll keep you updated.
Ex
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Patch note missed sounds like "working as intended". And let me guess, the devs will not choose to comment on this either.
Do the devs think that they've got a big bunch of new people coming in so they don't need the old players?
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Apparently, they've grown bored of making the PvPers mad/running them off and are testing the waters to see if badgers will be fun to get peeved.
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Fixed a bug where heroes would see the Villain/Reformed badge progress bar. This badge should be completely unobtainable by heroes. Those players already with the badge will keep the badge.
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Its becoming increasingly clear that 50 is as high as we are getting in this game and as such we need to find things for our 50's to do. Ouroboros is ok for short stuff but kind of a pain for longer strings, Cimerora doesn't thrill me at all although I haven't tried this issue (although nothing I've heard has made me want to rush back there) so On a couple of my 50's I'm trying to get as many badges as I can. Now I am being told that a badge (actually 2 badges--Longbow Special Ops gladiator) that has been around for over 2 years and 7 complete issues is no longer available. But that people who already have the badge(s) get to keep them. So no matter what I do I will NEVER be able to catch up even in theory because I was about 6 days to late to get the badge. I think after a certain length of time there should be some kind of statute of limitations that a badge really exist.
When I quit the game (Unless Issue 14 has something to grab my interest I don't think its a question of "If I quit the game") this will be at the top of my list of reasons, I worked hard to get that badge then found out I was a couple of days to late to get a badge that had been around for a looooooong time.
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We are currently investigating this issue. It does look like a patch note was missed in regards to brainstorm ideas not translating to badge counts. We are looking further at whether the overall badges have been affected by this change.
I'll keep you updated.
Ex
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Patch note missed sounds like "working as intended". And let me guess, the devs will not choose to comment on this either.
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Why the Badger bashing? Are Badgers the new PvPers? Are we to be the next segment of the population revamped and alienated?
Color me at this and the Longbow stealth changes. 'Missed patch note' or not, to me this change is indefensable and unacceptable, just like the Longbow badge change.
I felt the PvPers' pain over I-13, now I am really feeling their pain. And their anger.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
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Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
Clarification Note
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Bases
<ul>
[*]Autonomous Expert System - can now attach 9 auxiliary control items, and accepts all auxiliary items the Supercomputer will accept.
[*]Mystic Orrery - can now attach 9 auxiliary control items, and accepts all auxiliary items the Orbits of Control accept.
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Pre-I13 versions of the Mystic Orrey and Autonomic Expert system only accept 1 attachment of all types.
Post-I13 versions accept 9 attachments as intended.
This has been confirmed, and a future update may address the older versions. As of now any players wishing to utilize the 9 attachments must upgrade the Mystic Orrey and Autonomic Expert System to post Issue 13 versions.
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Reasons why the Devs have no comment on current gripes:
A) They're too busy to comment. Ex has told us earlier this week that everyone's got their noses to the grindstone. Understandable.
B) They can't tell us because it involves future content, and the marketing folks are putting the brakes on the info. Also understandable. Just gonna have to swallow the bile and be patient for a bit.
C) They're still investigating the issues, and haven't formed a response other than "we're working on it." If the folks are clamoring for info, they won't be satisfied with just "We're aware of it," or "we're working on it...no timetable for a fix," why would the Devs waste time telling us something people don't want to hear anyway. Ex can speak for them, and she has.
There's a big difference between hearing nothing at all, and hearing from the Forum Rep that the Devs are aware of issues. Please don't confuse the two.
Everyone's welcome to gripe (provided it follows the rules), but do we have to have it repeated ad infinitum by the same people in every thread? We know you're frustrated. You just don't have to remind us, and derail threads, by repeating it.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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Why the Badger bashing? Are Badgers the new PvPers? Are we to be the next segment of the population revamped and alienated?
Color me at this and the Longbow stealth changes. 'Missed patch note' or not, to me this change is indefensable and unacceptable, just like the Longbow badge change.
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Hint for the devs and PR dept: people are so upset over this because there seems to be no logical reason for the change.
There are quite a few other badges which are shared (as in use the same /settitle ID and have different names / descriptions for each side) without ill effect. If there's a good reason why this badge in particular is a problem, please tell us. Even if you don't want to elaborate on what exactly the reason is, a dev reassuring us, even if it's relayed through Ex Libris, that it's something other than "we felt like it" would go a long way toward containing the fallout. "Aware internally" and "no comment" makes it sound like they don't care, regardless if that's true or not.
If it's simply that the name and description don't make a whole lot of sense in context, i doubt any badge-o-holic would object to it being changed. There are plenty of other badges that don't make sense or have inaccurate descriptions in any event.
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We are currently investigating this issue. It does look like a patch note was missed in regards to brainstorm ideas not translating to badge counts. We are looking further at whether the overall badges have been affected by this change.
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The phrase "whether overall badges have been affected by this change" seems like a silly statement. If the change making brainstorm conversions not count towards crafting badges is intentional, then of course "overall badges have been affected by this change." There's no way they CAN'T be affected by it.
(I sure am glad I got Fabricator the day Issue 13 went live... )
I have seen reports that some people are not getting badge credit for crafting IOs, I think that was what Ex meant with that statement.
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Its becoming increasingly clear that 50 is as high as we are getting in this game and as such we need to find things for our 50's to do.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually it's been explicitly stated by the Devs that 50 is as high as the game will ever go. Nothing increasingly clear about it, it was directly stated several months ago that raising the level cap past 50 will not work with the current powers slotting/leveling system. That does not rule out secondary methods of progression, much like day jobs, exotic IO's, vet rewards and the like have extended capabilities, but the Devs have not given any indication that anything of the sort is in development for 50's, so level 50 is it for now.
Still, there has been more stuff for 50's to do with every update, and a bunch of new content for the existing upper levels makes more sense than having to create new systems and scaling to accommodate adding more levels. Still hoping for a shiny new zone for i15. (Moonbase! Moonbase! MOONBASE!)
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Removed for snarkiness on my part, bad form
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
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Obviously the reformed badge was intended for villains with the "Villain" badge who switched sides and became heroes. It was removed so it will function properly once they implement falling from grace/redemption in I15.
What?
It's friday, double xp weekend, and I'm still stuck at work. I'll rumor monger if I want to
Infatum on Virtueverse
Wait....let me get this right....
1) It sure sounds like Brain Storms ----> Invention Salvage will not count towards the crafting badges going forward
2) I need to sell off my pre Issue 13 AES, then recraft it and reattach it to get the benefit of attaching more than one aux control item - and while this may be changed in a future update, nothing is guaranteed. I need to check to see what the new crafting requirement is for an AES...
I understand that things will slip through the TEST server to LIVE. My reaction is more to the commentary that we are being given surrounding these two items.
Not a good idea to tick off the badge and base community on the day that one of your biggest marketing events kicks off...
Go Team Venture!
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Obviously the reformed badge was intended for villains with the "Villain" badge who switched sides and became heroes. It was removed so it will function properly once they implement falling from grace/redemption in I15.
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If that were the case then these also should have been blocked/changed:
<ul type="square">[*]Hero accessible only with the 1st mission villain side during the Valentine's event.
* Coldblooded | Coldhearted
* Hellfrost Gladiator
* Weed Whacker
* Hordeling Lasher Gladiator[*] Villain accessible only through winter event.
* Cap Buster
* Bane of Dannon[*]Hero side extremely rare spawns
* Venomous
* Tarantula Gladiator
* Blue Ink Man Gladiator[*]Villain side extremely rare spawns
* Weatherman/Weatherwoman <-only 3 Outcast bosses total in CoV, under highly select conditions.
* Skull Crusher
* Regenerator
* Illusionist
* Untouchable[/list]The problem is that at least two of the villain badges (Cap Buster and Untouchable) unlock custom weapons. If the reformed badge were truly for side switching there are plenty others that should have gotten the chop at the same time, but didn't.
Side switching doesn't explain things. Sadly I think the only reason we are left with is that the developer's whim changed.
As to the Brainstorm conversions: in light of this change Fabricator should be reduced to 2,000 crafts. The 1,000 to 10,000 jump never made much sense anyways.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
The whole thing does seem rather rushed to me. My guess is that the higher ups are pushing for I14 to hit soon so that I15 can be ready for the 5th anniversary, and they need the test server asap to get it ready for beta...
I have to agree completely with Snow_Globe--at least be consistent in your beatings.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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If that were the case then these also should have been blocked/changed:
<ul type="square">[*]Hero accessible only with the 1st mission villain side during the Valentine's event.
* Coldblooded | Coldhearted
* Hellfrost Gladiator
* Weed Whacker
* Hordeling Lasher Gladiator[*] Villain accessible only through winter event.
* Cap Buster
* Bane of Dannon[*]Hero side extremely rare spawns
* Venomous
* Tarantula Gladiator
* Blue Ink Man Gladiator[*]Villain side extremely rare spawns
* Weatherman/Weatherwoman <-only 3 Outcast bosses total in CoV, under highly select conditions.
* Skull Crusher
* Regenerator
* Illusionist
* Untouchable[/list]...
Side switching doesn't explain things. Sadly I think the only reason we are left with is that the developer's whim changed.
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I don't understand why. If the Reformed badge was specifically intended to be given to villains who switch sides, to signify that they have switched sides, then what do those other badges have to do with it? It seems to me that those other badges are fine, and don't need to be changed.
People seem to fail to understand why this change was made.
The Hero badge is called REORMED. The villain badge is called VILLAIN. It is the same badge and has been designed such that when they allow crossovers a villains badge will be renamed too and the text changed to an appropriate badge.
VILLIAN Badge Text on villain side: Longbow now officially considers you a Supervillain.
REFORMED Badge Text on hero side: Once you were considered a villain, but now you walk the path of the straight and Narrow.
See how they are connected.
Iscanned several of the badges that Snowglobe listed, and unlike Reformed, they make NO MENTION of switching sides.
REFORMED by the very name as well as the text, says you have switched sides.
Here is the text on Reformed
"Once you were considered a VILLAIN, but now you walk the path of the straight and Narrow."
Heres the text on the first few snowglobe listed
"You've defeated 250 Cold Demons, making you Coldhearted."
"You've cut down more than your fair share of the Thorns."
Notice the difference. A hero can earn any of the above badges since the badge text is true. You will defeat the Cold Demons. You will Defeat the Thorns. However you have NOT and at this point in time can not switch sides so the text as well as the name of the badge is such that heroes can't get it until they switch sides.
Notice they have not taken away your kill credits up to the point of the fix. They have simply stopped giving you credit from here on out. After all a hero has no business getting the badge.
Now I'm sure some will say "Why not take away the badge from all those Heroes who have it." The answer is actually quite simple.
Unless they REMOVED all the credit from longbows killed it can't be done long term. Sure they can flip the switch to make the badge disappear from those heroes who have it. But the minute they flip the switch back on the heroes would again have it.
Since when they come out with crossover they need to flip that switch on so villains crossing over can have it, it is pointless to flip it off for a few months, or however long it will take, just to flip it back on when they institute crossovers. Furthermore it would upset those who already have it for a few months for NO gain on the devs/game continuity part.
Some will say, "Well they should just eliminate ALL credit for the badge." They are not doing this I suspect because It would upset FAR more people, especially since many of those people legitimatly earned it.
However by making the Longbow on heroes side not count (What they have done) it preserves game continuity and the meaning of the badge. If they did not lock the hero badge earning then every hero would be able to get the reformed badge without reforming.
Why don't they say this? Because NC Soft/ Marketing does not want the information that they are soon going to have crossover released yet.
Simply put they have realized that there was a problem where by people were earning credit towards something that they should not have been able to get credit for. Rather then be @$%#& and say, "All right were taking away all credit towards the badge" they have simply said for the time being we are removing this method of getting the badge. From all availabe evidence you will be able to finish aquiring the badge at a future point in time.
HP Lovecat
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Obviously the reformed badge was intended for villains with the "Villain" badge who switched sides and became heroes. It was removed so it will function properly once they implement falling from grace/redemption in I15.
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If that were the case then these also should have been blocked/changed:
<ul type="square">[*]Hero accessible only with the 1st mission villain side during the Valentine's event.
* Coldblooded | Coldhearted
* Hellfrost Gladiator
* Weed Whacker
* Hordeling Lasher Gladiator[*] Villain accessible only through winter event.
* Cap Buster
* Bane of Dannon[*]Hero side extremely rare spawns
* Venomous
* Tarantula Gladiator
* Blue Ink Man Gladiator[*]Villain side extremely rare spawns
* Weatherman/Weatherwoman <-only 3 Outcast bosses total in CoV, under highly select conditions.
* Skull Crusher
* Regenerator
* Illusionist
* Untouchable[/list]The problem is that at least two of the villain badges (Cap Buster and Untouchable) unlock custom weapons. If the reformed badge were truly for side switching there are plenty others that should have gotten the chop at the same time, but didn't.
Side switching doesn't explain things. Sadly I think the only reason we are left with is that the developer's whim changed.
As to the Brainstorm conversions: in light of this change Fabricator should be reduced to 2,000 crafts. The 1,000 to 10,000 jump never made much sense anyways.
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Hooray! My AR/Thermal Corruptor can actually kill things now!
Seriously, the buff to Assault Rifle makes the set a lot better overall. Before it just seemed like there was this huge, unnecessary delay after every attack, and now that's gone, so the set flows together a hell of a lot more soothly.
Two wrongs don't make a right. However, three rights make a left.
L00k, w3'r3 r3f0rmed! W3'v3 g0t l1v3s n0w, 4nd 1'm 4 buz1n3ss Pwnz0r! -Reformed Freak Proprieter
Seek. Find. Rularuu.
Target. Destroy. Rularuu.
Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls. Rularuu.
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Since when they come out with crossover they need to flip that switch on so villains crossing over can have it, it is pointless to flip it off for a few months, or however long it will take, just to flip it back on when they institute crossovers. Furthermore it would upset those who already have it for a few months for NO gain on the devs/game continuity part.
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So, basically what you're saying is: Since one day there might be a moon zone, we should remove alien faces from the costume creator. Can't have anyone creating an alien, since that will someday be an unlockable costume part from the moon zone TF.
No I did not say that. There are NO costume peices that say "YOU ARE AN ALIEN FROM THE MOON!" Costume pieces are whatever the players wish to make of them up to and including that this is simply an alien mask bought at Walmart for a costume contest and it is being worn by a normal human.
Your analogy FAILS.
The badge in question says
Once you were considered a villain, but now you walk the path of the straight and Narrow.
Notice this make a definite referance to the character changing sides, as well as the name REFORMED, and the name before you bacame a hero "VILLAIN".
VILLAIN becomes REFORMED.
Is this that difficult to understand? Please reread my post below for further clarification.
HP Lovecat
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Since when they come out with crossover they need to flip that switch on so villains crossing over can have it, it is pointless to flip it off for a few months, or however long it will take, just to flip it back on when they institute crossovers. Furthermore it would upset those who already have it for a few months for NO gain on the devs/game continuity part.
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So, basically what you're saying is: Since one day there might be a moon zone, we should remove alien faces from the costume creator. Can't have anyone creating an alien, since that will someday be an unlockable costume part from the moon zone TF.
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People seem to fail to understand why this change was made.
The Hero badge is called REORMED. The villain badge is called VILLAIN. It is the same badge and has been designed such that when they allow crossovers a villains badge will be renamed too and the text changed to an appropriate badge.
VILLIAN Badge Text on villain side: Longbow now officially considers you a Supervillain.
REFORMED Badge Text on hero side: Once you were considered a villain, but now you walk the path of the straight and Narrow.
See how they are connected.
Iscanned several of the badges that Snowglobe listed, and unlike Reformed, they make NO MENTION of switching sides.
REFORMED by the very name as well as the text, says you have switched sides.
Here is the text on Reformed
"Once you were considered a VILLAIN, but now you walk the path of the straight and Narrow."
Heres the text on the first few snowglobe listed
"You've defeated 250 Cold Demons, making you Coldhearted."
"You've cut down more than your fair share of the Thorns."
Notice the difference. A hero can earn any of the above badges since the badge text is true. You will defeat the Cold Demons. You will Defeat the Thorns. However you have NOT and at this point in time can not switch sides so the text as well as the name of the badge is such that heroes can't get it until they switch sides.
Notice they have not taken away your kill credits up to the point of the fix. They have simply stopped giving you credit from here on out. After all a hero has no business getting the badge.
Now I'm sure some will say "Why not take away the badge from all those Heroes who have it." The answer is actually quite simple.
Unless they REMOVED all the credit from longbows killed it can't be done long term. Sure they can flip the switch to make the badge disappear from those heroes who have it. But the minute they flip the switch back on the heroes would again have it.
Since when they come out with crossover they need to flip that switch on so villains crossing over can have it, it is pointless to flip it off for a few months, or however long it will take, just to flip it back on when they institute crossovers. Furthermore it would upset those who already have it for a few months for NO gain on the devs/game continuity part.
Some will say, "Well they should just eliminate ALL credit for the badge." They are not doing this I suspect because It would upset FAR more people, especially since many of those people legitimatly earned it.
However by making the Longbow on heroes side not count (What they have done) it preserves game continuity and the meaning of the badge. If they did not lock the hero badge earning then every hero would be able to get the reformed badge without reforming.
Why don't they say this? Because NC Soft/ Marketing does not want the information that they are soon going to have crossover released yet.
Simply put they have realized that there was a problem where by people were earning credit towards something that they should not have been able to get credit for. Rather then be @$%#& and say, "All right were taking away all credit towards the badge" they have simply said for the time being we are removing this method of getting the badge. From all availabe evidence you will be able to finish aquiring the badge at a future point in time.
HP Lovecat
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Cathulhu gets at the textual reasoning behind the Reformed change, but makes the conclusion that it's related to side-switching as an eventual reality in this game. There's another possibility that looks increasingly likely with the change to base crafting counting for the Artisan series. That reason is literalism.
Now, this is speculative and based on two whole data points, which really isn't enough to form a pattern, but can at least imply a direction. With the changes to the badge UI in Issue 13, we got more informative progress bars and hint texts. My speculation is that now, someone has decided to go through all of those hints, names and descriptions for badges and see if any were awarding in ways contrary to same in a very literal fashion. Hence, Reformed, with both name and description implying a villain that switched sides, and the Artisan series, with texts that explicitly state that they are for Invention crafting, get changed.
Those changes are logical and valid, from a literalist point of view. The question becomes whether or not they are really wise decisions. My opinion of that is that they aren't. They are reductive changes that are only going to serve to alienate members of the community. They are minor annoyances, to be sure, but those are often worse than painful changes. With a big, painful change, it happens and it's over, like a short, sharp headache. Minor annoyances, on the other hand, are like a long, dull discomfort at the base of the skull, they may not cause you to have to immediately stop what you're doing and address them, but they make it hard to focus on what you're doing over a longer term. At least, that what it's like for me. Those minor annoyances stick with me for a long time and add up. I've quit jobs and dropped classes over a build up of such little things in real life.
I would ask here that those in charge reconsider before continuing on this literalist path, even if there are very few more things in the game that need to be changed to reflect the literal meaning of the text. Instead, think about changing the text to something more ambiguous and just leave the methods of earning these things as they are. It will make for less headaches (Yes, I referenced my own metaphor from the previous paragraph. Wanna make something of it? ) for you and your customers in the future.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
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Brutes
<ul type="square">
[*]Removed flags which allowed Brute Rise to the Challenge to not be detoggled by status effects. It now works the same as the Tanker and Scrapper versions.[/list]
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A temptingly-easy response to this situation would be to special-case RttC, possibly by creating some sort of partial suppression in PvP that still preserves some factor of needed combat defense for the powerset.
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please, please, no more supression!
The validity of your statment does not increase in direct proportion with the frequency and volume at which you speak it.
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Seriously, what's the point of a test server if what's been tested isn't actually what goes live? I know you have an internal test and QA department, but they can't possibly replicate the conditions of actual gameplay from around the globe, and all the edge and corner cases that it can expose.
Anyway, I feel better now that I've had my mini-rant. Just please try to remember that a lot of the people who are being critical love this game and only complain because they care about it. It's frustrating when bad things happen that should be preventable.
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To be honest, I have been thinking the same thing as of late. I reported a few bugs myself and to see them end up live with not even being added to the known issues list.
NeoSaturn-L50 Kat/Regen Scrapper
Paragon Family Swift
NeoSaturn's Deviations