[ QUOTE ]
I see by this response you missed the point of my previous post.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think I got it. I don't think that you've gotten my point. The developer team is compartmentalized. There should be nothing preventing the community reps from telling the team that players are upset because of X, getting a response, and then relaying a response back to the players.
There was nothing preventing direct developer response in closed beta (player concerns fell on deaf ears then). There was a opportunity that they let slip through their fingers when they failed to be up front with the players.
We understand that they are human. Yes, some of us are frustrated. A lot of PVPers quit. Who's next?
[ QUOTE ]
We get that you and the like-minded are upset. 100x, we get it. The Devs get it too, as evidenced by recent posts. You keep saying they aren't explaining things, and yet we're told that the Devs have their hands full with new stuff at the moment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which ones? Those from BAB? As BAB said, he isn't the one responsible for these decisions.
[ QUOTE ]
We also know that Ex, who is our sole Community Rep after Lighthouse left, has her hands full with two jobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ex moved into Lighthouse's spot, true. Niviene moved into Ex's old spot.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what you're expecting, as far as what a reasonable response time should be. When they say "We can't talk about it yet" people get upset because they think the Devs are witholding info. When they say "We'll get back to you on that (or something along those lines)" people get upset because they think they're getting blown off. Neither one is true. When they have a better answer, they'll give it, and not before.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yet we did not get either "We can't talk about it yet" or "We'll get back to you on that". Instead, Ex responded "We are aware internally of the badgers concerns over the removal of this badge. However at this time the Developers are choosing to not comment."
Not that they will get back at a later date, just that they don't want to comment at all.
Heck, I'd love it if they could at least say that several bugs in the base editor and the badge system will be fixed for issue 14 or 15. While some of the bugs are not trivial, other long standing ones are trivial. We've suggested plenty of solutions, some of which only need text changes.
However, getting an acknowledgment that they are at least planning to address some of the player concerns that they ignored during both Issue 13 closed and open beta would possibly help. However it would have helped more during closed beta, or at the release to the live servers at the latest.
[ QUOTE ]
When there's a shift in the flow of info, how is it logical to jump to the conclusion that there's been some sort of policy change, as many have alluded to?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, in the Brainstorms not counting for crafting I didn't have to jump to any conclusion. I took the Lead Developer at his word (you think I'd quit doing that by this point) and trusted that what he said was true. Then we got a change (without a patch note) that upended that word. The patch note was then added retroactively. You can only do this so many times before people hear "trust us" and they stop believing the person.
Player trust has been lost. What is being done to restore it?
[ QUOTE ]
does it really make any sense to keep asking, and asking, and asking (sometimes in a demanding tone) the same questions?
[/ QUOTE ]
I want to believe the developers, but I've been burned too many times recently. Vague promises that "it will be better" just are not stepping up to the task.
[ QUOTE ]
Believe me, I want the buggy stuff fixed too
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem isn't that these issues are bugs, it is that they are considered "working as designed" without explanation even though the changes are detrimental in the player's eyes. If an explanation is given then it has to be at least believable (base salvage being too complicated to understand was not).
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
[ QUOTE ]
What's that saying about a watched pot?
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? How long has it been since I13 beta? 2 months? 3 months? We base builders are STILL waiting for a credible answer to the salvage thing. The removal of badges and the actual ability to use the "new" feature in order to earn a hard to get badge getting taken away with no more than a "Shhhh...maybe they wont notice...oh crap they did....ummm...sorry this didnt make the patch notes" set of actions makes me wonder what the hell they are thinking. I add this to the whole PvP thing, the Merit thing, the state of the market, the you have to have the entire team in one zone to set a mish thing. and remembering how they pretty much ignored all the feedback in open beta (cant comment on closed beta as I wasnt there, but people I have talked to say a lot of stuff got ignored there also) and I really have to wonder, do they care? or are they so intent on getting a few shinnies in the game to counter other products due out this year that they are unwilling to look back and see the wreckage left in the wake.
Since I13 dropped, I have been finding other things to do with my gaming time more and more. My game time has dropped from several hours everyday to an hour or so here and there a week or every 2 weeks. I was here for 2XP weekend but as i said 80% of my global list wasnt, my SG is down to 10 or so active members, and its getting harder and harder to justify keeping 2 accounts active.
Since you are fond of old homey sayings....hows this
"Dont cut off the nose to spite the face"
[ QUOTE ]
Yet we did not get either "We can't talk about it yet" or "We'll get back to you on that". Instead, Ex responded "We are aware internally of the badgers concerns over the removal of this badge. However at this time the Developers are choosing to not comment."
Not that they will get back at a later date, just that they don't want to comment at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your conclusion doesn't fit with what Ex said. "At this time" doesn't imply that they don't want to comment at all. It means exactly what it says. Like I said before, when they've had time to gather themselves and their information, and tear themselves away from the task at hand, they'll comment about it. Ex said exactly what she needed to say. They'll get to it later, because invariably, there'll be a similar issue with another badge or something, and it will have a similar reason behind why a change was made. It's happened before.
[ QUOTE ]
There was nothing preventing direct developer response in closed beta (player concerns fell on deaf ears then). There was a opportunity that they let slip through their fingers when they failed to be up front with the players.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think this issue is more about the players being too stubborn to accept the reasons that were given for those particular changes. I don't think there's very many people that could honestly say they were completely happy with pre-I13 PvP. When the Devs made steps to change it, players suddenly cried foul. They cried knowing that the Devs were only partially done with said changes (still working on Zones and Raiding). When you get yelled at for not doing something, and then yelled at again by the same people when you do do something, isn't that a confusing message the players are sending to the Devs? How exactly are they supposed to respond to that? The only way that makes sense is to stick to their guns about their intentions for the changes, and assure us that when the product is in a more finished and complete form, we'll have a better idea of what they're doing and why.
[ QUOTE ]
The problem isn't that these issues are bugs, it is that they are considered "working as designed" without explanation even though the changes are detrimental in the player's eyes
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope you don't mean all players' eyes, because there are plenty of folks that don't care one way or the other about changes to badges, or changes to crafting, or any other little change you can name. As has been said by many, everyone's idea of fun is different. There are few changes that affect everyone.
If you're just talking about the folks that post their complaints, then yeah...the voice has been decidedly negative, but hardly representative of the whole playerbase.
[ QUOTE ]
There should be nothing preventing the community reps from telling the team that players are upset because of X, getting a response, and then relaying a response back to the players.
[/ QUOTE ]
There shouldn't, but there is. It's called a PR department. The Devs don't have free reign to respond to every concern, especially when it deals with any future content. It sucks, but that's the way it goes.
[ QUOTE ]
Niviene moved into Ex's old spot.
[/ QUOTE ]
Didn't realize this was official. That's good, but they're both still dealing with the aftermath of Lighthouse's departure, and the things he left for others to take over.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
[ QUOTE ]
Your conclusion doesn't fit with what Ex said. "At this time" doesn't imply that they don't want to comment at all. It means exactly what it says. Like I said before, when they've had time to gather themselves and their information, and tear themselves away from the task at hand, they'll comment about it. Ex said exactly what she needed to say. They'll get to it later, because invariably, there'll be a similar issue with another badge or something, and it will have a similar reason behind why a change was made. It's happened before.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe Ex Libris's comment doesn't rule out commenting at a later point, but it doesn't promise one either.
And for those of us still awaiting a rational explanation for the whole removal of base salvage in the first place, the view of "oh, well, I'm sure they'll explain themselves sometimes" seems like wild optimism.
Oh, and "because invariably, there'll be a similar issue with another badge or something"--that's what we're worried about. Two bad changes that do nothing but say "no badge for you" with no explanation of what's wrong giving people those badges makes us wonder what other badges will be removed or made harder without any real reason. What IS next? You don't get credit for a kill unless you get XP for it?
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think this issue is more about the players being too stubborn to accept the reasons that were given for those particular changes. I don't think there's very many people that could honestly say they were completely happy with pre-I13 PvP. When the Devs made steps to change it, players suddenly cried foul. They cried knowing that the Devs were only partially done with said changes (still working on Zones and Raiding). When you get yelled at for not doing something, and then yelled at again by the same people when you do do something, isn't that a confusing message the players are sending to the Devs? How exactly are they supposed to respond to that? The only way that makes sense is to stick to their guns about their intentions for the changes, and assure us that when the product is in a more finished and complete form, we'll have a better idea of what they're doing and why.
[/ QUOTE ]
And if the devs have completely messed up, if they're working from either a bad understanding of what players want or some view that they can successfully churn most of the current players and replace them with a targeted playerbase (which would seem insane except its been done before), then "Oh well, it's a fait accompli, nothing to do now."
[ QUOTE ]
Didn't realize this was official. That's good, but they're both still dealing with the aftermath of Lighthouse's departure, and the things he left for others to take over.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lighthouse has been gone for a while, in this economy with all sorts of companies laying people off or shutting down, finding qualified people should not be an issue, and while community coordinator is an important job with skills necessary to do it well, it doesn't have the technical "learn how to use our tools" ramp-up time that programmers need.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
silence on the crafting issue that was offered as a "benefit" of the base salvage debacle and then having said benefit yanked out from under us with not a word or warning plain sucks. And we are Still waiting on a actual answer as to why this change occurred and not the mythical "Some people were too stupid to understand base vs. invention slavage" popup screen thingy issues.
[/ QUOTE ]
No...see, "waiting" implies that you cease your actions and allow what you're waiting for to happen (a response).
[/ QUOTE ]
The word "waiting" implies no such thing. "Waiting" simply means that the incident you are interested in still has not occurred, but that you are anticipating that it will. What you're looking for to make your somewhat long-winded point is the adverb "patiently".
If you want to criticize people for not being patient, go right ahead. I won't disagree with that, because I myself can sense my patience wearing thin. But don't tell people who are upset that they're not waiting for something that hasn't happened, when by definition, because it hasn't happened, they're doing exactly that.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
[ QUOTE ]
I hope you don't mean all players' eyes, because there are plenty of folks that don't care one way or the other about changes to badges, or changes to crafting, or any other little change you can name. As has been said by many, everyone's idea of fun is different. There are few changes that affect everyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone likes the mission selection bug.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
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Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
[ QUOTE ]
They'll get to it later, because invariably, there'll be a similar issue with another badge or something, and it will have a similar reason behind why a change was made. It's happened before.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is exactly why the silence is so troubling. Because when they don't talk about the changes future changes tend to be even worse.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There was nothing preventing direct developer response in closed beta (player concerns fell on deaf ears then). There was a opportunity that they let slip through their fingers when they failed to be up front with the players.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think this issue is more about the players being too stubborn to accept the reasons that were given for those particular changes. I don't think there's very many people that could honestly say they were completely happy with pre-I13 PvP. When the Devs made steps to change it, players suddenly cried foul. They cried knowing that the Devs were only partially done with said changes (still working on Zones and Raiding). When you get yelled at for not doing something, and then yelled at again by the same people when you do do something, isn't that a confusing message the players are sending to the Devs?
[/ QUOTE ]
Here is the problem:
<ul type="square">[*]Base salvage was never identified by players as being a problem. We had a lot of higher priority issues. One of them was made worse with the change.[*]The announced base changes happened in a PVP thread (which Sunstorm admitted that the Base Raiders are only one of three groups in the base building community).[*]The removal affected not only affected base builders, but it also affected badge collectors (seeking crafting badges) and caused problems with supply in the markets (at a time when the markets were going to get pummeled with dual builds and merits).[*]They created yet another monetary system and unleashed it to the public without fixing existing security holes creating an even worse problem with group leaders.[/list]Others in the closed beta gave the developers the same list of concerns (while I was on the outside saying the same thing), we (base builders) made them aware of these facts during open beta, and people came forward after it went live yet the only reason given was that "base salvage was too confusing". Sorry, but I don't like thinking I'm being lied to.
Now to add insult to injury, credit for the crafting badges got further nerfed with the change of crafting to or from Brainstorms not giving credit.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem isn't that these issues are bugs, it is that they are considered "working as designed" without explanation even though the changes are detrimental in the player's eyes
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope you don't mean all players' eyes, because there are plenty of folks that don't care one way or the other about changes to badges, or changes to crafting, or any other little change you can name. As has been said by many, everyone's idea of fun is different. There are few changes that affect everyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I specifically avoided saying everyone. However I've talked to players that do not come to the forums, who don't care about badges or base designers, and are long time players yet even they are shaking their heads over these changes.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There should be nothing preventing the community reps from telling the team that players are upset because of X, getting a response, and then relaying a response back to the players.
[/ QUOTE ]
There shouldn't, but there is. It's called a PR department. The Devs don't have free reign to respond to every concern, especially when it deals with any future content. It sucks, but that's the way it goes.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've said it before, and I'll likely say it again: The marketing division is the Achilles Heel of this game. The list of bad decisions that could be directly traced back to it is monumental. The exclusive deal with Wal-Mart comes instantly to mind. That survey that keeps popping up for another example.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hear ,hear! Im not much for the sit down and shut up attitude either. A lot of us have invested time and money in this franchise and have been loyal despite past problems but these issues were always explained to us. This new closed mouth policy reeks of the Orwellian and I for one will have none of it. Explain yourselves and be quick about it! Fore as you can plainly see...we are all short on patience. In this time of recession im sure most of us could find another use for your monthly stipend.
[/ QUOTE ]Did you even read BaB's post at all? I hope the devs put you on ignore.
I'm no dev fanboy, but the explanation he provided is very logical and reasonable for me to accept.
[/ QUOTE ]
Until BAB's spoke up I was pretty sure we were all on ignore. What he said was that everyone is doing their job whatever those jobs may be, he didnt know because he was busy doing his job. I also gathered that the bugs are too numerous to list. I think we are all aware of this. I always appreciate when someone with clout takes time out to talk about the issues they face and the steps that they have to take to keep the game rolling. That being said im not one for conjecture(dont bother looking it up Zul..It means a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork) which seems to be abundant on this thread. Which is my point, Its the only choice we have given the lack of explanation. If the sheep were happy eating grass I doubt this thread would be so long. I dont know what the people in the room down the hall are doing any more than BAB's does but he can knock on someones door and say "Have you read the forums lately?" I dont need a 5 paragraph answer. A simple "We know...were working on it and we'll have an answer for you in time." Dont plead the fifth(thats in reference to the fifth Amendment Zul, see "Bill of Rights") and expect an "Oh...ok. Sorry to have bothered you."
I am glad, however, that I got a rise out of you. It truly makes my day to know that my banal(youll have to look that one up Zul) comments forced you to realize that you have a voice and that you should never be afraid to speak up if you find that an answer is not to your satisfaction. If you are satisfied then by all means, eat the grass. As far as the Dev's putting me on ignore thats their choice. I dont believe any of them, with the exception of BAB's and Ex, bother reading the posts and it certainly wouldnt hurt my feelings if they did ignore me. Im not certain I would know the difference. Please also note that my interpretation of BAB's statement is just that and it is never my intention to put words in other peoples mouths. It was merely conjecture(there's that word again) on my part based on my interpretation of his statement.
"The first rule of 'Tights Club' is,...We don't talk about Tights Club."
"PANCAKEPANCAKEPANCAKE?" What the PANCAKE is this PANCAKE?!....I can't say PANCAKE?
Fanboy: "The Devs don't want this to become city of jetbikes."
Struck: "Bite my shiny metal Jetboard, coffin stuffer!"
So uh Posi, issue 15's release is still going to coincide with the 5 year anniversay.....right? That basicly gives you 3 months to get issue 14 and 15 to live.....is it foot in mouth time?
[ QUOTE ]
So uh Posi, issue 15's release is still going to coincide with the 5 year anniversay.....right? That basicly gives you 3 months to get issue 14 and 15 to live.....is it foot in mouth time?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think Posi's too busy to reply on account of him hunting down whatever low level programmer made him look like a liar.
I'm betting this year goes more like:
End of April: Issue 14 - six or seven months of patches to fix all the mission editor bugs, while ignoring the other ones that have been in since I12, and all the new stuff I13 broke.
End of October/Beginning of November/End of December: Issue 15 - which is really just another fix patch, but they add a new contact to each side to have something to present as new.
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think this issue is more about the players being too stubborn to accept the reasons that were given for those particular changes.
[/ QUOTE ]
False. The devs haven't given any reasons. I myself have asked Castle where exactly they're going with PvP and why these changes and all he's said was
[ QUOTE ]
As for a goal statement. I'm not sure what you are asking.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there's very many people that could honestly say they were completely happy with pre-I13 PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course you don't know. You happen to know any players that played on the ladder? Look at the ladder in it's current state.. See it's non-existent state? All those people were happy with I12 PvP. I13 made them leave.
[ QUOTE ]
When the Devs made steps to change it, players suddenly cried foul.
[/ QUOTE ]
Crying foul and asking legitimate questions are two different things. During closed beta a lot of questions were asked, mainly "why". Or "where are you going with this". Both of which were never answered by any devs. They prefered to browse the boards and give one lined answered instead of real answers.
[ QUOTE ]
They cried knowing that the Devs were only partially done with said changes (still working on Zones and Raiding).
[/ QUOTE ]
Ironic part is this, these changes were for the arena and not the zones. Yet it's blatantly obvious these changes are for the zones. And lolraiding.
[ QUOTE ]
When you get yelled at for not doing something, and then yelled at again by the same people when you do do something, isn't that a confusing message the players are sending to the Devs?
[/ QUOTE ]
When the devs specifically say "Hey guise, in the next patch we listened to your feedback. We're going to make changes with Tribehavok's suggestions in mind! I'm sure you'll like the next patch, be sure to check it out."
In a nutshell, I13 beta was a bunch of non communication with NC and them basically saying "Next patch will be better we promise."
Kind of like now, it's a bunch of "Wait and see cause it's gonna get better."
pvp changes were made because devs were sick of the attitude that pvpers were dishing out. <and they were getting their butts kicked> edit: I recently pondered the possibility that alot of the i13 changes were made as some type of personal attack by the devs to us <the players> So, I go to test, and i start asking questions, im shooting for some type of answer something that would make sense as to why Focused Accuracy got nerfed. <not a good idea btw> All That was said was "It was unbalanced" Sorry, i dont think thats really an answer, more like a copout. So, In my typical fashion one thing led to another and soon I was Screaming IM NOT STOOPID basically i want the strawberry,er.. focused accuracy. this whole dev thing and i13 thing is just ugh. Guess ill have to pull double shifts to get my sg ready for the event.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
[ QUOTE ]
does it really make any sense to keep asking, and asking, and asking (sometimes in a demanding tone) the same questions?
[/ QUOTE ]
When the other choice is stop playing and you like playing? Yes.
And, personally, given the list of bugs that have been around for many many issues... yes, I'd rather they skip an Issue and focus on bug cleanup.
List the bugs pls.
[ QUOTE ]
False. The devs haven't given any reasons. I myself have asked Castle where exactly they're going with PvP and why these changes and all he's said was
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for a goal statement. I'm not sure what you are asking.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/ QUOTE ]
Ask your question in a better way, maybe?
[ QUOTE ]
Of course you don't know. You happen to know any players that played on the ladder? Look at the ladder in it's current state.. See it's non-existent state? All those people were happy with I12 PvP. I13 made them leave.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I do know some folks that were in the ladder at one time or another, but what does that have to do with anything I said? Do you not remember the huge list of changes/requests the PvP community put together and gave to Ex to pass on to the Devs? Would someone that's happy with the game the way it was do that?
[ QUOTE ]
They prefered to browse the boards and give one lined answered instead of real answers.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, because it wasn't long enough, or what you wanted to hear, it's not an answer? Ok.....
[ QUOTE ]
Ironic part is this, these changes were for the arena and not the zones. Yet it's blatantly obvious these changes are for the zones. And lolraiding.
[/ QUOTE ]
And they explained why the Arena got tweaked first. It was the only area of PvP that didn't require anything but playing around with the power numbers. The lolraiding part...ok, yeah, it's pretty broken, but that's the reason they're fixing it. I'm looking forward to what they're going to do, because it's really the only thing justifying having a SG base with defenses in it right now. Teleporting and storage are not supposed to be the only functions a base has.
[ QUOTE ]
Kind of like now, it's a bunch of "Wait and see cause it's gonna get better."
[/ QUOTE ]
So stop blaming the Devs for the lack of communication. It's clearly marketing and PR that's put the clamps on new information. Castle or BaB have no say in what they're allowed to talk about.
The Devs aren't going to hit a homerun every time with every Issue or major update. It would be nice, but they're human. Can we lower our expectations just a tad, and keep this in mind?
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
[ QUOTE ]
List the bugs pls.
[/ QUOTE ]
How about the memory leak that popped up again with the pre-Double XP weekend patch (that nerfed the Reformed badge and brainstorms/crafting)? It doesn't hit everyone, but it's nailing me hard every time I play. Tonight my memory usage hit 1.44 gb of RAM.
And the mission selection bug.
The emote bugs also recently introduced (boombox, slap, etc).
There are so many, many, many bugs that BABs himself said it's not possible to track and create an accurate, up-to-date document of a known issues list for us.
linky
[ QUOTE ]
It can't ever be the "Here are all of the bugs we know about" list because our bug tracking database literally has tens of thousands of 'known issues'. Some have been fixed, some aren't actually bugs, many are duplicates of bugs, etc. There's no reasonable way anyone could parse through our bug database and condense it into a list on a regular basis. Even updating it with a list of things that we know about and have already fixed is problematic and requires the people who fix things to manually tell someone to update the list. So the likeliehood of the known issues list ever being up to the minute and comprehensive is slim to none. It can certainly be more comprehensive and up to the date that it currently is, but it'll always be something that's managed ad hoc.
[/ QUOTE ]
Edited for format, to include BABs' quote, and remove snarky comment.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
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Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
There's a bug with... lightning field, I believe? Where you end up injuring yourself more if you slot procs.
Protector bots getting stuck. I'm very happy my MM hit 50 so I could unlock VEATs and stop playing him. My bots got stuck about once every 10 mins. That's been a problem since MMs were added.
Those are two just off the top of my head. They, and others, get talked about frequently in AT forums. (Usually 'it's been 6 issues, they aren't going to fix it')
Edit: Excuse me, not lightning field, lightning rod. More here.
[ QUOTE ]
Ask your question in a better way, maybe?
[/ QUOTE ]
"Why these particular changes?"
"What direction are you guys planning on taking PvP?"
Not very hard question and not poorly worded imo, but hey feel free to think so.
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I do know some folks that were in the ladder at one time or another, but what does that have to do with anything I said? Do you not remember the huge list of changes/requests the PvP community put together and gave to Ex to pass on to the Devs? Would someone that's happy with the game the way it was do that?
[/ QUOTE ]
You still haven't refuted one simple fact. They liked I12 more than I13 so they left.
The list was made because yes there were some issues with i12, but i13 is WAY worse compared to i13. I can't even imagine what the hell kind of list would be made if we sat down and made one.
No one was nearly unhappy with I12 as they are with I13. I'm not denying I12 had it's flaws, but I13 is way worse in comparison. That's why we have a non-existing ladder.
[ QUOTE ]
So, because it wasn't long enough, or what you wanted to hear, it's not an answer? Ok.....
[/ QUOTE ]
No, they simply didn't respond. When someone asks "Hey how are you doing today" and they respond with "Well you see the economic turmoil in Afghanistan post nine eleven directly effected the opium market."
You're sort of like "WTF dude, you didn't even answer my question." Which is what happened during beta, no real communication between NC and players.
[ QUOTE ]
And they explained why the Arena got tweaked first. It was the only area of PvP that didn't require anything but playing around with the power numbers. The lolraiding part...ok, yeah, it's pretty broken, but that's the reason they're fixing it. I'm looking forward to what they're going to do, because it's really the only thing justifying having a SG base with defenses in it right now. Teleporting and storage are not supposed to be the only functions a base has.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like I said before, Castle clearly stated these were changes for the arena. However, he's wrong. These changes are for zones.
People TPing away is not an issue in the arena.
People getting TP + AS ganked is not an issue in the arena.
Buff bots were not an issue in the arena.
Phasing was not an issue in the arena.
Spiking was not an issue in the arena.
All these changes were actually targeted at zones.
[ QUOTE ]
So stop blaming the Devs for the lack of communication. It's clearly marketing and PR that's put the clamps on new information. Castle or BaB have no say in what they're allowed to talk about.
The Devs aren't going to hit a homerun every time with every Issue or major update. It would be nice, but they're human. Can we lower our expectations just a tad, and keep this in mind?
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I'm simply stating that during beta, they said, that they were going to make changes based off of TribeHavok's suggestions. Which was a complete and utter lie. They didn't actually do that.
And it's not "new" data if it's in testing and we're in closed beta imo.
I'm not trying to target the devs because I get off to it.
And you're right they didn't hit a homerun with this issue. They created a PvP system that's even more botched that what it was before.
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because it's really the only thing justifying having a SG base with defenses in it right now.
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You forgot "decorative" purposes. I have plenty of guns and such in my base with no plans to ever raid.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
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List the bugs pls.
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How about the memory leak that popped up again with the pre-Double XP weekend patch (that nerfed the Reformed badge and brainstorms/crafting)? It doesn't hit everyone, but it's nailing me hard every time I play. Tonight my memory usage hit 1.44 gb of RAM.
And the mission selection bug.
The emote bugs also recently introduced (boombox, slap, etc).
There are so many, many, many bugs that BABs himself said it's not possible to track and create an accurate, up-to-date document of a known issues list for us.
linky
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It can't ever be the "Here are all of the bugs we know about" list because our bug tracking database literally has tens of thousands of 'known issues'. Some have been fixed, some aren't actually bugs, many are duplicates of bugs, etc. There's no reasonable way anyone could parse through our bug database and condense it into a list on a regular basis. Even updating it with a list of things that we know about and have already fixed is problematic and requires the people who fix things to manually tell someone to update the list. So the likeliehood of the known issues list ever being up to the minute and comprehensive is slim to none. It can certainly be more comprehensive and up to the date that it currently is, but it'll always be something that's managed ad hoc.
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Edited for format, to include BABs' quote, and remove snarky comment.
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Adding more to my list, in case you are unfamiliar with these known bugs/issues:
The chat bug where /tells and /help send broken portions of the name and nothing of the text. In tells the only way to respond is to type /r hitting backspace does not work. In help there is no way to know who send the message. This has been going on for months now.
Global chat connectivity. On most servers this is not a big problem most of the time, however on Virtue is a huge problem all of the time. Global channels reset, or become inoperative entirely for a time, and when they come back up they must be readded to chat tabs. This happens so much I have to readd them to my tabs several times an hour during peak times, and constantly during very busy times like double xp weekend. This has been going on so long I don't even remember when it started.
Mapservers. Disconnects. Crashes. Again, it's a lot worse on Virtue and has been going on so long I don't remember when it started, it has been several issues. It's not uncommon, when playing on Virtue, for an entire zone to crash, several times in a row. I've been there. It is very common, even in instanced missions, for the entire team to mapserver and freeze up, if you are unlucky you DC.
Zone in and freeze. When you zone into a mission or your base, you're frozen for several seconds.
These are the ones that really grate on my nerves the most. I'm sure others can add to the list.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
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because it's really the only thing justifying having a SG base with defenses in it right now.
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You forgot "decorative" purposes. I have plenty of guns and such in my base with no plans to ever raid.
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And dragons!
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
We really are a spoiled playerbase. It's either a sign of a good Dev team.. or of entitled players.
The idea that every decision made by the Devs has to please everyone is pure foolishness. Just as the idea that the Devs don't care is also pure foolishness.
The fact that a change to a game causes this much animosity is either amusing or troubeling.
In the end, the ONLY response that will really get the Devs attention is to cancle your subscription. If you're still paying them $15 a month while [censored] up a storm, why should they bother?
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We really are a spoiled playerbase. It's either a sign of a good Dev team.. or of entitled players.
The idea that every decision made by the Devs has to please everyone is pure foolishness. Just as the idea that the Devs don't care is also pure foolishness.
The fact that a change to a game causes this much animosity is either amusing or troubeling.
In the end, the ONLY response that will really get the Devs attention is to cancle your subscription. If you're still paying them $15 a month while [censored] up a storm, why should they bother?
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Because in spite of all of the problems, it is still the best game I have ever played!
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
so um whats that ati mascot doing... havent heard from "Ruby" in a while.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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No, the 4 month delay (since the start of Issue 13 Closed Beta) for a believable response as to why base salvage was removed makes the silence from the developers worse than it should have been. The lame duck "party line" reply that Sunstorm made two months ago isn't believable by anyone on these forums except possibly the Red Names.
Making more changes that upset players with no explanation is only fueling the hostility against the developers. Going back on the lead developer's statements without explanation is just the icing on the cake of the whole thing.
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I see by this response you missed the point of my previous post.
We get that you and the like-minded are upset. 100x, we get it. The Devs get it too, as evidenced by recent posts. You keep saying they aren't explaining things, and yet we're told that the Devs have their hands full with new stuff at the moment. We also know that Ex, who is our sole Community Rep after Lighthouse left, has her hands full with two jobs. I'm not sure what you're expecting, as far as what a reasonable response time should be. When they say "We can't talk about it yet" people get upset because they think the Devs are witholding info. When they say "We'll get back to you on that (or something along those lines)" people get upset because they think they're getting blown off. Neither one is true. When they have a better answer, they'll give it, and not before.
Truth is, the community base, especially the long-time vets, have been spoiled by the interaction in the past, and they expect that same level throughout the life of the game. When there's a shift in the flow of info, how is it logical to jump to the conclusion that there's been some sort of policy change, as many have alluded to? Why does it have to be a conscious decision to suddenly be tight-lipped? Those with experience in other MMOs keep telling us that the level of Dev interaction we enjoy is a bonus. Not in the norm at all. I say this not to try to pacify you with "Shut up, you're lucky they say anything at all" but to point out that when you know, from redname posts, that life at NCNC right now is pretty hectic, does it really make any sense to keep asking, and asking, and asking (sometimes in a demanding tone) the same questions? Frankly it smacks of desperation, like when a guy keeps calling and leaving message after message on some woman's voicemail. Give her a chance to call you back. "She's ignoring you and wishes you'd stop calling" is only one of many possible answers to the problem of not hearing back. Not all of them are bad for you, either. Maybe she lost her phone.
Believe me, I want the buggy stuff fixed too, but if we waited for stuff to be fixed before new stuff came, we'd still be in Issue 2 or 3. If stuff is not getting fixed at a pace that everyone wants because they're working on content (on more than one Issue at the moment, by the way), I'll take it. Game-breaking bugs get fixed fast. The rest of it, while annoying, isn't enough to keep the game from being great. People are leaving the game, this is true, but they were doing it anyway. There are also new people playing. I've met many of them recently. Circle of the MMO life, to paraphrase.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.