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well, I think Empath's change to a still-too-high number is proof that they don't tend to listen to numeric arguments about achievability. we have no idea how many hours they expect one to play to reach Fabricator, we only have one for Master Craftsman, as part of the statement that Field Crafter should be reachable before level 40.
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That's really disappointing, too. Especially given the huge amount of resources (in Inf, Recipes, and Salvage) that crafting requires, and the fact that it's hard to even break-even on a lot of the IOs when sold on the market (at least redside Virtue, where my experience has been).
Not only that, but you're looking at just one character. Forget trying to get it with multiple of them! 
It'd be nice if they assigned a Dev to revise badges. Why are some Defeat badges a 50-count, while others are 100- or 200-count? Why X number of some IOs and Y number of others for the Invention badges? Why the truly insane numbers for the so-called "epic" Achievement badges?
I understand that badges are an ongoing (and optional) goal, but it's just poor judgment to dangle a carrot that's unreachable except by work-arounds (eg, Brainstorming for Invention badges), farming, or the like. 
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But... Zub, if the following doesn't sound very respectful = Well, that's because it's truly not:
Please, kindly take your "Easy-Mode" Garbage/Snark and shove it somewhere very, very dark. 
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The Articulate Gentleman is entitled to his opinion.
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Like your reply was even close to articulate.
For those that have obtained Fabricator, I'd like to know how many did it with just crafting enhancements, as that seems to be the way we're now being asked to.
"PFF now stacks correctly" More like nerfed to hell.
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Also missing from the patch notes:
The ability to delete empowerment buffs has been removed.
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OMG, you have got to be kidding. The Fabricator issue aside, I don't want those buffs on all the time in some situations. Sheesh. I normally take game changes in stride, but this is getting out of hand.
Andra
Devoted, heart and soul, to Angry Angels and Jaded Angels
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Also missing from the patch notes:
The ability to delete empowerment buffs has been removed.
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To quote Andra: "OMG!"
I have been the biggest "fan boy" of CoH for years. But there is WAY TOO MANY CHANGES going through, onto live, WITH NO NOTICE to the players. Even if players didn't use empowerments to craft, there is NO reason for a deletable power to no longer be deletable!
I've been calling Issue 13: Unlucky Thirteen for the past couple of weeks, and it holds especially true since the last patch.
What does it serve to the developers to just pull things left and right? What does it serve the players to get no notice on over 10 (as I count right now) major changes that affect playablility?
To me I don't see a City of Heroes anymore. I see a City of Disorder, and I hope like heck this gets changed!
/rant
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
[ QUOTE ]
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But... Zub, if the following doesn't sound very respectful = Well, that's because it's truly not:
Please, kindly take your "Easy-Mode" Garbage/Snark and shove it somewhere very, very dark.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Articulate Gentleman is entitled to his opinion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like your reply was even close to articulate.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was, yes. Good that you noticed. I believe that I managed to convey my opinion, and pointedly did it without telling him to shove anything up his [censored].
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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I have been the biggest "fan boy" of CoH for years. But there is WAY TOO MANY CHANGES going through, onto live, WITH NO NOTICE to the players.
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Just wondering, but would it matter if they gave us notice of changes like this? They're gonna do it anyway, 9 times out of 10.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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I have been the biggest "fan boy" of CoH for years. But there is WAY TOO MANY CHANGES going through, onto live, WITH NO NOTICE to the players.
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Just wondering, but would it matter if they gave us notice of changes like this? They're gonna do it anyway, 9 times out of 10.
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If they don't tell us, then we may not know whether it's a bug or not, and many players may end up sending in pointless bug reports.
Do we even know for sure that the inability to delete empowerment buffs isn't a bug? I might have been tempted to /bug that if I had run into it without reading about it from other forumites.
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I have been the biggest "fan boy" of CoH for years. But there is WAY TOO MANY CHANGES going through, onto live, WITH NO NOTICE to the players.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just wondering, but would it matter if they gave us notice of changes like this? They're gonna do it anyway, 9 times out of 10.
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The difference (and it's a big one) is that we no longer know what we are paying for when we subscribe. We believe we are getting one service, but instead we get something else entirely, and it's something that we do not want. This is totally unacceptable behaviour on the part of the service provider, and as I've said, I will no longer be doing any business with NCsoft as a result. They've crossed far too many lines with Issue 13, lines that were never crossed in my previous 3 years of gaming here.
I'm aware that Backalley brawler has told us, as customers, to chill out. No sir, I don't think that's the appropriate response. Instead why don't you give people what they've paid for, and respond to the overwhelming feedback of your paying customers. I think the devs need to "chill out" with all of these unwanted changes. The response you are getting has been evoked by your wreckless disregard for customer satisfaction.
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But... Zub, if the following doesn't sound very respectful = Well, that's because it's truly not:
Please, kindly take your "Easy-Mode" Garbage/Snark and shove it somewhere very, very dark.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Articulate Gentleman is entitled to his opinion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like your reply was even close to articulate.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was, yes. Good that you noticed. I believe that I managed to convey my opinion, and pointedly did it without telling him to shove anything up his [censored].
[/ QUOTE ]
Elitist, or arrogant, possibly. But not articulate. And he never told you to shove it somewhere on your body, just somewhere dark.
I'm still not sure how the ability to convert base salvage for badge credit somehow belittled or cheapened the efforts of those that...wait for it...were able to obtain it by...little more build up...converting base salvage.
I think the majority of us agree with you, Jaaax. It's just a shame that all the devs seem to see this as a bit of bellyaching when its clear that there are many of us whose experience with Issue 13 has been filled with more negatives than positives. Games typically evolve, not take one step forward followed by taking two steps back.
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But... Zub, if the following doesn't sound very respectful = Well, that's because it's truly not:
Please, kindly take your "Easy-Mode" Garbage/Snark and shove it somewhere very, very dark.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Articulate Gentleman is entitled to his opinion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like your reply was even close to articulate.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was, yes. Good that you noticed. I believe that I managed to convey my opinion, and pointedly did it without telling him to shove anything up his [censored].
[/ QUOTE ]
Elitist, or arrogant, possibly. But not articulate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Here, this should help you out.
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And he never told you to shove it somewhere on your body, just somewhere dark.
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*boggle*
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I'm still not sure how the ability to convert base salvage for badge credit somehow belittled or cheapened the efforts of those that...wait for it...were able to obtain it by...little more build up...converting base salvage.
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Not even going to try and answer this, since you clearly wouldnt understand the answer, given that you dont even understand when someone is telling someone else to shove something up their [censored]. Reading comprehension. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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http://coh.nofuture.org.uk/digest/in...p;post=7984068
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Master Craftsman isn't impossible for a character to get sub-40, especially if they are crafting for most of their levelling. That series of badges counts ANY use of a crafting table (converting base salvage as well), and the other badges needed for the Accolade get you almost halfway to Master Craftsman on their own.
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Yes, youre correct that the any crafting = credit toward Fabricator rule has been rescinded. But I still dont see this as automatically requiring an epic level badge to be rolled back. (I didnt agree with dropping the Zookeeper numbers either, as a matter of fact). At a mere 2000 craftings, by the time someone has obtained all of the common IO crafting badges and gotten the Workbench power, they will be nearly half way to Fabricator. I really do see dropping badge requirements as cheapening the effort that the players put into obtaining them in the first place.
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The formerly legitimate (and Dev approved by Positron's own words) methods (not only base salvage, but also making/deleting empowerment buffs) have now been removed. I would say that at least 2/3 the crafts needed for the Master Craftsman AND Fabricator have been removed. Basic IOs count for around 460 crafts.
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Now GadgetDon made a good point in saying that the base salvage --> base component method of gaining progress toward Fabricator has been removed. And this is something that could be discussed. But still
I believe that reducing a badge requirement should be a very rare thing, like in the case of an obvious bug or order-of-magnitude error (*looks sideways at Empath*). I just dont think that this one change rises to the level of problem that would necessitate a rollback of the effort that a LOT of people put into Fabricator when it first appeared.
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Ok, I'd settle for them to keep the badge at 10,000 crafts if:
<ul type="square">[*] They restore the base salvage drops.[*] They restore the base salvage recipes.[*] They restore the inventions to base salvage conversions[*] They restore all crafts at any table to count towards the crafting badges[*] The restored ability to delete empowerment buffs.[/list]The developers actions have put these badges out of player reach. Now it is their responsibility to balance the badges that were unbalanced by their actions.
Current Sequence:
1. Artisan Badge (50 items crafted)
2. Master Artisan Badge (100 items crafted)
<- All the 10-40 badges would get players to here.
3. Craftsman Badge (500 items crafted)
4. Master Craftsman Badge (1,000 items crafted)
5. Fabricator Badge (10,000 items crafted)
Note that even the current sequence isn't "even" and Fabricator is about double of what the sequence "should be".
Proposed Sequence:
1. Artisan Badge (75 items crafted)
2. Master Artisan Badge (125 items crafted)
3. Craftsman Badge (250 items crafted)
<- All the 10-40 badges would get players to here.
4. Master Craftsman Badge (750 items crafted) This would set the badge at just under double the crafts needed for the 10-40 IO badges.
5. Fabricator Badge (1,500 items crafted) This would be double the amount of the Master craftsman badge.
Even if the developers insist in keeping Master Craftsman at 1,000 crafts, then Fabricator needs reducing. 2,000 to 2,500 seems to be a right number if Master Craftsman is left alone.
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Now I DO agree with those complaining about the way this change was made as a stealth-nerf. THAT was uncool. And like I already said, a little advanced warning would have been appropriate.
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I don't think advanced warning would have helped a lot, because even with well-reasoned arguments a lot of player hated changes got shoved down our throats without any explanations.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I'm still not sure how the ability to convert base salvage for badge credit somehow belittled or cheapened the efforts of those that...wait for it...were able to obtain it by...little more build up...converting base salvage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not even going to try and answer this, since you clearly wouldnt understand the answer, given that you dont even understand when someone is telling someone else to shove something up their [censored]. Reading comprehension. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
[/ QUOTE ]
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Or more likely because you don't have an answer that would make any sense. By the way here and here and really, this one fits too.
I think that the worst side effect of these changes is this:
Not what it does to the badge community, but what it does to the regular playerbase.
I'm a perfect example of this. I'm not a badger, but at one point I thought that one of my characters might be able to get Fabricator. I was actually looking forward to it. I like the accolade powers, even that silly freeze pistol that you get off the Crey that never hits anything.
But now I know that I will never get Fabricator. 10,000 crafts? Sorry, I probably won't craft 10,000 things over the entire lifespan of this game. I'm a casual player, remember us? Because of that Empath and Fabricator will forever be out of my reach.
dont forget, -salvage racks hold 30- thats still a problem IMHO
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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I think that the worst side effect of these changes is this:
Not what it does to the badge community, but what it does to the regular playerbase.
I'm a perfect example of this. I'm not a badger, but at one point I thought that one of my characters might be able to get Fabricator. I was actually looking forward to it. I like the accolade powers, even that silly freeze pistol that you get off the Crey that never hits anything.
But now I know that I will never get Fabricator. 10,000 crafts? Sorry, I probably won't craft 10,000 things over the entire lifespan of this game. I'm a casual player, remember us? Because of that Empath and Fabricator will forever be out of my reach.
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Well to be fair, Fabricator is not a requirement for the Field Crafter accolade. "Only" Master Craftsman (1,000 crafts) is needed for it. The only "official" epic badge required for an accolade is the 4th debt badge. The damage taken one might as well be though. (Both villain side).
The sad thing is that while the developers seem to want to stretch out the time it takes to get badges, they are shooting themselves in the foot by putting them so far out of reach that players just give up. The carrot doesn't work if it is too far out of sight.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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...For those that have obtained Fabricator, I'd like to know how many did it with just crafting enhancements, as that seems to be the way we're now being asked to.
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Well, I did.
I think I may have crafted 2 or 3 buffs in that time, but 99.9% enhancements.
It DOES have a couple of side effects to do that....
Our SG tables were full of lots of fun enhancements.
And I made tons of moo-lah sellin' the crafted IOs.
I think I can live with the side effects.
.
[ QUOTE ]
Well to be fair, Fabricator is not a requirement for the Field Crafter accolade. "Only" Master Craftsman (1,000 crafts) is needed for it. The only "official" epic badge required for an accolade is the 4th debt badge. The damage taken one might as well be though. (Both villain side).
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Ah... ok. See I thought that I had to get Fabricator in order to get that accolade power that lets me pull a crafting table out of hammerspace.
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The sad thing is that while the developers seem to want to stretch out the time it takes to get badges, they are shooting themselves in the foot by putting them so far out of reach that players just give up. The carrot doesn't work if it is too far out of sight.
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Well that and the way they're alienating people by making changes that go completely against specific statements they've made in the past and then refusing to post any explanation on the forums.
I mean seriously, just exactly which community is Ex Libris supposted to be coordinating with? Cause so far she sure as heck hasn't been coordinating with this one.
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I mean seriously, just exactly which community is Ex Libris supposted to be coordinating with? Cause so far she sure as heck hasn't been coordinating with this one.
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That's sig worthy.
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That's sig worthy.
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Thank you. The truth usually is.
What kind of reaction are we going for here?
We got from player side A-LOT of confusion, and dissatisfaction, From dev side we got Mis information and smide remarks <that almost seem mean spirited>
Its not ok to kill this game! I'm not done with it!
I'm working on a huge Base editing project that will hopefull result in a sucessful event that will be fun. I truely hope this game lives to see that through. I hope everything gets patched up and things get better.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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The restored ability to delete empowerment buffs.
[/ QUOTE ]
You can still delete these.
Edit: I'm seeing multiple reports of this, but I just tested it and can delete them with no problem.
How are people trying to delete them?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
By the way here and here and really, this one fits too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Awww... you're being too hard on yourself!
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
[ QUOTE ]
But... Zub, if the following doesn't sound very respectful = Well, that's because it's truly not:
Please, kindly take your "Easy-Mode" Garbage/Snark and shove it somewhere very, very dark.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Articulate Gentleman is entitled to his opinion.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform