Im not quoting you directly, Snow, to keep the quothiness from growing exponentially. Hope you dont mind.
I agree with you that they should not have removed base salvage. This was an odd change that has never been explained. (I actually created a museum storage rack in my private base. It has 5 of every base salvage item that was ever available in the game.)
And I see your point about the way so many crafting routes have been removed from the road to Fabricator. Yeah, that does suck for those trying to get there now.
In particular, removing the ability to delete an empowerment buff is one of those smack-self-in-the-head inexplicable changes that will hurt the players who use these things on a regular basis, and not for the purpose of grinding out crafting badges
I thought the devs wanted us to use the empowerment stations?
But Im still not onboard with your idea to reduce the craftings needed for Fabricator. Sorry. Truth be told, Id have been [/i] much[/i] happier if things had remained as they were. Since that clearly isnt going to happen, returning the crafting credit for brainstorm conversions only seems fair.
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Now I DO agree with those complaining about the way this change was made as a stealth-nerf. THAT was uncool. And like I already said, a little advanced warning would have been appropriate.
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I don't think advanced warning would have helped a lot, because even with well-reasoned arguments a lot of player hated changes got shoved down our throats without any explanations.
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Oops
some quothiness snuck in.
The advanced warning I was referring to wasnt so that we would have the opportunity to try and change their minds. (We all know how well that works.) I meant that it would have been nice for them to allow a last-minute opportunity for those who intended to use the base salvage --> brainstorm --> IO salvage route to Fabricator to do so before the door was slammed in our faces.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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As for Zub, I'm realing it's just easier to ignore you since you obviously don't have a reason for how allowing all crafts from the invention table to count for credit cheapen how it was achieved in the past when this same thing was also true. You were on my ignore list when you were complaining about being PVPed against when trying for badges in those zones, and you're still there in game. Grats making the forum ignore too.
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Oh, I have reasons. I've just been on these boards for so long that I know when someone just wants to be a rude little troll rather than having a rational discussion. Responding to such people with reasonable, articulate arguments is like waving a red flag in front of a bull (-headded person).
As far as the PvP stuff goes, I don't recall that. Of course, it's been a couple of years since I've been in a PvP zone... talk about ancient history! Is that why you suddenly came out of nowhere to attack me here? Because you didn't like something I supposedly did in-game a long time ago? Sheesh. Get over it already.
But hey, you've pulled out the "Retreat and Declare Victory" strategy today, so kudos for you. 
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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But... Zub, if the following doesn't sound very respectful = Well, that's because it's truly not:
Please, kindly take your "Easy-Mode" Garbage/Snark and shove it somewhere very, very dark. 
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The Articulate Gentleman is entitled to his opinion.
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Like your reply was even close to articulate.
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It was, yes. Good that you noticed. I believe that I managed to convey my opinion, and pointedly did it without telling him to shove anything up his [censored].
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*ahem* Mine rhymed
And you're inferring "[censored]"... I didn't say it.
I may have implied it - but I didn't state it.
I could have been referring to a very dark closet, or the north pole in Winter, or any of the other myriad of possible "dark places" where you could, figuratively - shove it.
Take your 'holier than thou-ness' and kindly place it there too.
I doubt that you (or anyone else for that matter) has gotten Fabricator solely off of Crafting Enhancements. It would be near impossible to avoid getting some credits for a "craft" that wasn't an Enhancement - somewhere along the line.
I doubt ANYONE has even come close to getting it Mostly off of Enhancements.
Whether they'd admit it or not, is another matter - claiming others use "easy-mode" - while they do not (in any game/situation) - its just too satisfying for some folks - they just can't avoid this sort of opportunity for snobbishness (or maybe that would that be snobbery? - whatever).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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The restored ability to delete empowerment buffs.
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You can still delete these.
Edit: I'm seeing multiple reports of this, but I just tested it and can delete them with no problem.
How are people trying to delete them?
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They aren't doing it the right way - it still works.
You can't delete it from the 'Buff Bar', just like you can't click on the Day Job Bonuses up there and see the amount of time left on them, you have to go down and open your 'Powers' window and click (or right click) the power there in the Temp Powers Section.
The idea that anyone would delete 10,000 salvage in this ridiculously Tedious manner to get Fabricator - ASAP is pretty silly - or they have a really serious OCD problem, or are a serious 'gotta have it NAO badger" - which seems a bit oxymoronic to me.
That is of course - a whole different story than someone who doesn't feel the badge should require 10K Enhancement "craftings" (and/or Empowerment Buff "craftings").
(IMO) - Odds are anyone arguing this should be the case, already has it on their 'main' badger(s?) or they're just a hater.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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Just a few cents on the issue:
I'd be very surprised if the devs implemented badges simply for "badgers", more likely they intended them to be mini cosmetic rewards for people pursuing a particular avenue of play whether it be monster hunting, a vendetta against a particular enemy group, PvPing or in this case crafting. If the easiest way to get the highest crafting badge is well, not to craft, then that's likely an issue in their mind.
So it doesn't sound like Fabricator was living up to its goal of being a mark of a crafter, and although this might not have been the most ideal change (maybe it should have been paired with a lowering of the quota for instance), it does bring it back to focus on people who craft rather than just those who badge.
10k is doable if you're focusing entirely on selling enhancers on the market (which is quite lucrative as well), and I'm guessing those are the kind of people they wanted that badge line targeted to. It may take as much if not more time than getting max rep in PvP for instance, but it is doable. As a badger myself, I find the harder it is to get a badge the more it's worth to me, but I can understand if that's not the case for everyone.
Infatum on Virtueverse
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(IMO) - Odds are anyone arguing this should be the case, already has it on their 'main' badger(s?) or they're just a hater.
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Or perhaps just someone who doesn't want options removed, even if they never intend to use that option themselves.
I don't have fabricator (I'm around 1,800 crafts) on my badge character. I could see where people are upset over its removal though.
As to being able to delete buffs from the powers window, that is prone to accidentally deleting something by mistake.
Edit: I just tested this with the +Run Speed enhancement, and you [u]CAN NOT[u] delete the buff.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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But Im still not onboard with your idea to reduce the craftings needed for Fabricator. Sorry. Truth be told, Id have been [/i] much[/i] happier if things had remained as they were. Since that clearly isnt going to happen, returning the crafting credit for brainstorm conversions only seems fair.
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I can understand your position on this. For myself, returning the crafting credit for brainstorm conversions and fixing the ability to remove buffs from the icon bar is the absolute minimum that needs to happen.
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I meant that it would have been nice for them to allow a last-minute opportunity for those who intended to use the base salvage --> brainstorm --> IO salvage route to Fabricator to do so before the door was slammed in our faces.
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Given the large amount of brainstorms and base salvage floating around, I doubt that anyone could hold that much salvage.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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As to being able to delete buffs from the powers window, that is prone to accidentally deleting something by mistake.
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Heh, OK. Sorry if I don't find that terribly compelling. Bear this in mind - I never even knew you could delete them from the buff bar. I never tried it, and not being able to never bothered me.
I'm not saying a useful feature should be removed. I'm saying it probably isn't a good complaint in the context of the threat at the moment, because the reality is that you can still delete them. Worried about deleting the wrong one? Pad yourself with 2-3 of a type you won't be deleting, then craft delete a different one, which will always be at the bottom of the list. The padding will last an hour.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I think there is a disconnect between the players and the developers. The developers are (have to be) interested in game play issues. The players, especially those with many toons hitting 50, have to find ways to make the game continue to be fun for them.
For many, like me, badge hunting is the path to fun. And us badges have taken some hits lately (have you tried to get the Volcanic Badge since they sissified The Hollows?) The Reformed Badge (and it associated Longbow Special Ops Badge) and the Fabricator Badge are severely infuriating events to us and to more than a few, they are nails in the coffin.
I don't think the developers understand or appreciate it. And I have the really bad gut feeling that if they do try to placate the badges they are going to make it worse
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But... Zub, if the following doesn't sound very respectful = Well, that's because it's truly not:
Please, kindly take your "Easy-Mode" Garbage/Snark and shove it somewhere very, very dark.
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The Articulate Gentleman is entitled to his opinion.
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Like your reply was even close to articulate.
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It was, yes. Good that you noticed. I believe that I managed to convey my opinion, and pointedly did it without telling him to shove anything up his [censored].
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*ahem* Mine rhymed
And you're inferring "[censored]"... I didn't say it.
I may have implied it - but I didn't state it.
I could have been referring to a very dark closet, or the north pole in Winter, or any of the other myriad of possible "dark places" where you could, figuratively - shove it.
Take your 'holier than thou-ness' and kindly place it there too.
I doubt that you (or anyone else for that matter) has gotten Fabricator solely off of Crafting Enhancements. It would be near impossible to avoid getting some credits for a "craft" that wasn't an Enhancement - somewhere along the line.
I doubt ANYONE has even come close to getting it Mostly off of Enhancements.
Whether they'd admit it or not, is another matter - claiming others use "easy-mode" - while they do not (in any game/situation) - its just too satisfying for some folks - they just can't avoid this sort of opportunity for snobbishness (or maybe that would that be snobbery? - whatever).
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Oh please. At least have the courage to own what you wrote. Your meaning was clear to everyone. And I'll take my "holier than thou-ness" (which only exists in your mind) over your delightful "shove your opinion up your [censored]" any day, thank you very much.
You clearly don't want to have a reasonable discussion about this, so I'm not going to bother with you. If you can't articulate your position without starting off with [censored]-shoving, then your opinion is not well thought out and certainly not worth responding to.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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But Im still not onboard with your idea to reduce the craftings needed for Fabricator. Sorry. Truth be told, Id have been [/i] much[/i] happier if things had remained as they were. Since that clearly isnt going to happen, returning the crafting credit for brainstorm conversions only seems fair.
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I can understand your position on this. For myself, returning the crafting credit for brainstorm conversions and fixing the ability to remove buffs from the icon bar is the absolute minimum that needs to happen.
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I agree with you here, actually. The only thing I disagreed with was lowering the badge requirement.
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I meant that it would have been nice for them to allow a last-minute opportunity for those who intended to use the base salvage --> brainstorm --> IO salvage route to Fabricator to do so before the door was slammed in our faces.
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Given the large amount of brainstorms and base salvage floating around, I doubt that anyone could hold that much salvage.
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Any TRUE badge-[censored] worth his salty language would simply delete or vendor the excess common salvage. It would be a loss of influence miniscule compared to what I spent buying common IO salvage and turning it into base components. Over and over and over and over... 
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
After all this, aren't we about due a "The developers are aware of these concerns but choose not to reply." I wouldn't be happy with it, I think we deserve something more, particularly given the quotes found from Positron and that old bit about "give the players what they want within reason", but doubt we'll get it. But I really did expect at least something recognizing the unhappiness over this.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
its like every jab from the playerbase is trying to invoke some kind of reaction, I think thats why we never hear from them- the reactions everyone are trying to get are like... what they are not allowed to respond to. hrm.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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its like every jab from the playerbase is trying to invoke some kind of reaction, I think thats why we never hear from them- the reactions everyone are trying to get are like... what they are not allowed to respond to. hrm.
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Heck i would just like any reply saying the akcnowledge what we have said and are taking it into consideration but nearly 20 pages (On a post that a REDNAME stated not a sigle reply implying that we even exsist in the same realm they do) makes me wonder even more hmmmm.....
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After all this, aren't we about due a "The developers are aware of these concerns but choose not to reply." I wouldn't be happy with it, I think we deserve something more, particularly given the quotes found from Positron and that old bit about "give the players what they want within reason", but doubt we'll get it. But I really did expect at least something recognizing the unhappiness over this.
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At a guess, it will likely be a bullet point from the community reps at a meeting talking about player feedback. Something along the lines of "Players are upset about this change."
Then they'll have to debate this or something else they deem more important (at which point this will get lost in the shuffle).
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Snow your editor of the Player run paper yes? if your awnser was yes make a poll for see if they players would be willing to sit down with ya and do a write up disscussing the distanceing the devs seem to be doing mabey the paper will get some major discussion stated with the player base and get the devs aware that us(Customers) fell the game we have come to love is being taken without any warrning not any indication of its future since it seems with the recent changes that the devs have a "plan" and are just leaveing us out of the loop.....(Now for the joke ) lets get some CHANGE up in here....(i know i couldnt help it)
OK, I've read through about half of the posted comments on this patch. What has been bothering me about this patch is the actual patch itself, the odd power tweaks and such (notice how I'm not mentioning the badge-sniping). There are bugs in this game that have been interfering with game play for a couple of months, namely the chat-clipping and the inability to set/enter homogeneous hero or villain missions while players are out of zone. These aren't even listed as known issues, which makes me wonder... why? These aren't quality of life issues or things that bug PVPers or badge hunters-- these make game play frustrating every time I and my gaming buddies log into the game. Not patched. Not mentioned. On the radar?
I suspect the developers are very busy preparing I14, the next booster pack and future content, and I don't expect things to be fixed overnight. But I'm talking about major, universal, problems that cropped up before the winter event and I guess I'm kind of stunned at the lack of notice or mention of them. Moreso when I look at the content of this patch.
#141757 We Are Legion, #99205 We Too Are Legion, #5514 Bug Hunt
VIRTUE HEROES: Ebon Witch, Essense, Ossum Possum, Eversoul, Jacob Ravenshire
VIRTUE VILLAINS: Gentleman Caller, Little Green Vistor, Black Apple, Emily & Timothy Ravenshire
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.. and the inability to set/enter homogeneous hero or villain missions while players are out of zone. These aren't even listed as known issues, which makes me wonder... why?
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I'm gonna guess that this isn't a "bug" in the developers eyes because the game knows everyone isn't in the same zone and says so. I'm think the developers did this on purpose to nerf the mission teleoprter. It is highly annoying
Nope, it is a bug. Only the missions given from contacts in a coop zone (and present, the two new ones in Cimerora) are supposed to have their missions flagged, but all arc missions got flagged.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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I think there is a disconnect between the players and the developers. The developers are (have to be) interested in game play issues. The players, especially those with many toons hitting 50, have to find ways to make the game continue to be fun for them.
For many, like me, badge hunting is the path to fun. And us badges have taken some hits lately (have you tried to get the Volcanic Badge since they sissified The Hollows?) The Reformed Badge (and it associated Longbow Special Ops Badge) and the Fabricator Badge are severely infuriating events to us and to more than a few, they are nails in the coffin.
I don't think the developers understand or appreciate it. And I have the really bad gut feeling that if they do try to placate the badges they are going to make it worse
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They didn't listen to pvpers, I guess you badgers are next on the list of customers that really don't matter to NCsoft. Sad, very sad. Not the people I enjoyed doing business with for the past 3 years. A new direction, most definitely; ignore your current players hoping to attract some larger mystical group. That's been tried fyi; it fails. Learn from others' mistakes or simply repeat them and join them in the dustbin.
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OK, I've read through about half of the posted comments on this patch. What has been bothering me about this patch is the actual patch itself, the odd power tweaks and such (notice how I'm not mentioning the badge-sniping). There are bugs in this game that have been interfering with game play for a couple of months, namely the chat-clipping and the inability to set/enter homogeneous hero or villain missions while players are out of zone. These aren't even listed as known issues, which makes me wonder... why? These aren't quality of life issues or things that bug PVPers or badge hunters-- these make game play frustrating every time I and my gaming buddies log into the game. Not patched. Not mentioned. On the radar?
I suspect the developers are very busy preparing I14, the next booster pack and future content, and I don't expect things to be fixed overnight. But I'm talking about major, universal, problems that cropped up before the winter event and I guess I'm kind of stunned at the lack of notice or mention of them. Moreso when I look at the content of this patch.
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Ignore serious bugs and issues and focus on new content for a new potential audience. Also been tried; also fails. Why do people insist on repeating others' mistakes, despite all the obvious warning signs?
Sorry I can't read through this wall of text fast enough. I'm just throwing two cents in.
Reformed badge: Either take it out completely meaning those who got it or leave it alone for everyone to be able to get.
Brainstorming not counting: Uh whyyyy????? I'm trying to rationalize this decision... but I'm coming up empty.
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They didn't listen to pvpers, I guess you badgers are next on the list of customers that really don't matter to NCsoft. Sad, very sad. Not the people I enjoyed doing business with for the past 3 years. A new direction, most definitely; ignore your current players hoping to attract some larger mystical group. That's been tried fyi; it fails. Learn from others' mistakes or simply repeat them and join them in the dustbin.
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Jaaax, you keep saying you'll quit but you're still posting in the forums. Would it not be more useful if you gave constructive feedback instead of ranting about quitting CoX? The wall of text being generated now is blocking out every other Forum posters' suggestion.
If the Devs listened to every single person's suggestions/wants/needs/giefs and implements them all, I'm sure there'll be loads of balance problems. So let's wait out for a response from the Devs before we pull out our stakes and hammers and crucify them before they have a chance meet, discuss, decide and reply.
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They didn't listen to pvpers, I guess you badgers are next on the list of customers that really don't matter to NCsoft. Sad, very sad. Not the people I enjoyed doing business with for the past 3 years. A new direction, most definitely; ignore your current players hoping to attract some larger mystical group. That's been tried fyi; it fails. Learn from others' mistakes or simply repeat them and join them in the dustbin.
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Jaaax, you keep saying you'll quit but you're still posting in the forums. Would it not be more useful if you gave constructive feedback instead of ranting about quitting CoX? The wall of text being generated now is blocking out every other Forum posters' suggestion.
If the Devs listened to every single person's suggestions/wants/needs/giefs and implements them all, I'm sure there'll be loads of balance problems. So let's wait out for a response from the Devs before we pull out our stakes and hammers and crucify them before they have a chance meet, discuss, decide and reply.
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While i agree with ya Cents i dont think the devs will ever meet with the players and talk about thier buisness plan that seems to involve younger and younger generations and thus they need to get rid of all of us in order to do that so they can then dumb the game down more.... It worked for SoE didnt it
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...For those that have obtained Fabricator, I'd like to know how many did it with just crafting enhancements, as that seems to be the way we're now being asked to.
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Well, I did.
I think I may have crafted 2 or 3 buffs in that time, but 99.9% enhancements.
It DOES have a couple of side effects to do that....
Our SG tables were full of lots of fun enhancements.
And I made tons of moo-lah sellin' the crafted IOs.
I think I can live with the side effects.
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So you crafted 9998 or 9997 enhancements for the craft 10k things(now enhancements!) badge? No salvage conversions?
As for Zub, I'm realing it's just easier to ignore you since you obviously don't have a reason for how allowing all crafts from the invention table to count for credit cheapen how it was achieved in the past when this same thing was also true. You were on my ignore list when you were complaining about being PVPed against when trying for badges in those zones, and you're still there in game. Grats making the forum ignore too.