[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I suspect the developers are very busy preparing I14, the next booster pack and future content, and I don't expect things to be fixed overnight. But I'm talking about major, universal, problems that cropped up before the winter event and I guess I'm kind of stunned at the lack of notice or mention of them. Moreso when I look at the content of this patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quick responses to general tone of many posts in this thread
We're departmentalized here. The people who would be responsible for fixing things like game crashes, bugs with text chat, etc are not the same people who do things like tweak powers, change badges, or fiddle with animation/FX. I've said this many times before, but people keep using this "Why did they do X instead of fixing Y" arguement and unless you're a producer here, you cannot know which things are getting addressed in lieu of other things. (I myself only know which animation/FX issues are taking priority of other animation/FX issues)
The known issues list is kind of in unknown territory. I'm not sure if there is anyone who's responsibility is to keep that thing updated on a regular basis...and I'm not sure if there actually is a way to keep it updated anyway. What should go on the known issues list is things that are currently broken in the live game, are known about by us, and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
It can't ever be the "Here are all of the bugs we know about" list because our bug tracking database literally has tens of thousands of 'known issues'. Some have been fixed, some aren't actually bugs, many are duplicates of bugs, etc. There's no reasonable way anyone could parse through our bug database and condense it into a list on a regular basis. Even updating it with a list of things that we know about and have already fixed is problematic and requires the people who fix things to manually tell someone to update the list. So the likeliehood of the known issues list ever being up to the minute and comprehensive is slim to none. It can certainly be more comprehensive and up to the date that it currently is, but it'll always be something that's managed ad hoc.
Finally, we are in a particularly chaotic point in update schedule. We're beginning the transition between I13 on live and I14 (which used to be part of I13) on it's way to beta testing--always a troublesome time in the update process. We're also working ahead on things for post I14 launch (booster packs, anniversary event, etc)...as well as Issues 15 and 16. Many things going into I14 can't go into I13 without horrible consequences. Likewise with I15 and I16. So, we're currently dealing with more future builds than we ever have and more open branches as well. Trust me, it's just as frustrating for us as it is for you guys. But we'll get through it and things will smooth out. Absolute worst case scenario is by the time Issue 14 goes live...at that point one of the builds/branches we're juggling (I13) is closed for good. Pretty hopeful that things will smooth out long befor then though.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd feel sorry for whoever would be hired to keep the Known Issues list updated all the time.
Someone'll probably be posting that that person's wasting his/her time when it could be better spent on putting hair on witches hats, buttcapes on Widow characters, add in full power customization, create a whole slew of new ATs (regular and epic), etc. Even if the person who's working on the Known Issues list may have no clue how to fix any of the bugs/issues in the game in the first place.
Sad, but true.
Thanks for the response, BAB. I hope when you quoted me that you didn't misunderstand me. I really do expect the development team(s) to be working like mad on future expansion-- in fact, your response was an affirmation of that speculation.
I stand by my concern about not being able to set a mission without first gathering all team members into the same zone (which, by the way, makes the new Mission Teleporter from the Mac edition useless in many instances) or not knowing who just sent you a tell or what they were saying to you.
It's been weeks-- almost months-- since these major bugs started to negatively impact game play, and letting (or appearing to let) BIG issues like these persist without mention leaves players like myself and my friends (all COx diehards, by the way) feeling, well, bugged and a little bit forgotten.
Great to hear from you. Maybe one of your colleagues can let us know what's on the radar in terms of big fixes coming up? I noticed tonight there's a big patch, but no patch notes again 
#141757 We Are Legion, #99205 We Too Are Legion, #5514 Bug Hunt
VIRTUE HEROES: Ebon Witch, Essense, Ossum Possum, Eversoul, Jacob Ravenshire
VIRTUE VILLAINS: Gentleman Caller, Little Green Vistor, Black Apple, Emily & Timothy Ravenshire
[ QUOTE ]
I noticed tonight there's a big patch, but no patch notes again
[/ QUOTE ]
Note that this is currently at the top of every forum area.
Many things going into I14 can't go into I13 without horrible consequences. Likewise with I15 and I16.
Oh boy. Good luck dev's! thanks for responding Babs.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
Well Babs, I can only dream of whats in store with i14,15,16. Im certain everyone here would like some <any> kind of feedback on that.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I suspect the developers are very busy preparing I14, the next booster pack and future content, and I don't expect things to be fixed overnight. But I'm talking about major, universal, problems that cropped up before the winter event and I guess I'm kind of stunned at the lack of notice or mention of them. Moreso when I look at the content of this patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quick responses to general tone of many posts in this thread
We're departmentalized here. The people who would be responsible for fixing things like game crashes, bugs with text chat, etc are not the same people who do things like tweak powers, change badges, or fiddle with animation/FX. I've said this many times before, but people keep using this "Why did they do X instead of fixing Y" arguement and unless you're a producer here, you cannot know which things are getting addressed in lieu of other things. (I myself only know which animation/FX issues are taking priority of other animation/FX issues)
The known issues list is kind of in unknown territory. I'm not sure if there is anyone who's responsibility is to keep that thing updated on a regular basis...and I'm not sure if there actually is a way to keep it updated anyway. What should go on the known issues list is things that are currently broken in the live game, are known about by us, and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
It can't ever be the "Here are all of the bugs we know about" list because our bug tracking database literally has tens of thousands of 'known issues'. Some have been fixed, some aren't actually bugs, many are duplicates of bugs, etc. There's no reasonable way anyone could parse through our bug database and condense it into a list on a regular basis. Even updating it with a list of things that we know about and have already fixed is problematic and requires the people who fix things to manually tell someone to update the list. So the likeliehood of the known issues list ever being up to the minute and comprehensive is slim to none. It can certainly be more comprehensive and up to the date that it currently is, but it'll always be something that's managed ad hoc.
Finally, we are in a particularly chaotic point in update schedule. We're beginning the transition between I13 on live and I14 (which used to be part of I13) on it's way to beta testing--always a troublesome time in the update process. We're also working ahead on things for post I14 launch (booster packs, anniversary event, etc)...as well as Issues 15 and 16. Many things going into I14 can't go into I13 without horrible consequences. Likewise with I15 and I16. So, we're currently dealing with more future builds than we ever have and more open branches as well. Trust me, it's just as frustrating for us as it is for you guys. But we'll get through it and things will smooth out. Absolute worst case scenario is by the time Issue 14 goes live...at that point one of the builds/branches we're juggling (I13) is closed for good. Pretty hopeful that things will smooth out long befor then though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Seems like a lot of work.... Does it mean you can expect late night working and sharing midnight pizzas with co-workers?
I had that too (not working in the gaming industry though), but as annoying as it may sound, it might also be a cool experience if you get along well with your teamates.
@Asymptot :
- Asymptot : 50 Invul/SS Tanker
- Extremum : 25 SS/Nrg Brute
- Many alts
http://heroesunited.free.fr
[ QUOTE ]
Well Babs, I can only dream of whats in store with i14,15,16. Im certain everyone here would like some <any> kind of feedback on that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't know about 15 and 16, but I14 is the Mission Architect. Seems odd that adding it into I13 would have 'horrible consequences' when it was originally part of I13, though.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well Babs, I can only dream of whats in store with i14,15,16. Im certain everyone here would like some <any> kind of feedback on that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't know about 15 and 16, but I14 is the Mission Architect. Seems odd that adding it into I13 would have 'horrible consequences' when it was originally part of I13, though.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was before they decided to pull the MA out of I13 and implement customisable bosses, contacts, allies, etc. Not very surprising, then, that adding a whole new (untested) tool to the Architect would have potentially nasty consequences for the rest of the code.
"Immorality: The morality of those having a better time."
-H.L. Mencken
"My center is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent. I shall attack."
-Ferdinand Foch
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I suspect the developers are very busy preparing I14, the next booster pack and future content, and I don't expect things to be fixed overnight. But I'm talking about major, universal, problems that cropped up before the winter event and I guess I'm kind of stunned at the lack of notice or mention of them. Moreso when I look at the content of this patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quick responses to general tone of many posts in this thread
We're departmentalized here. The people who would be responsible for fixing things like game crashes, bugs with text chat, etc are not the same people who do things like tweak powers, change badges, or fiddle with animation/FX. I've said this many times before, but people keep using this "Why did they do X instead of fixing Y" arguement and unless you're a producer here, you cannot know which things are getting addressed in lieu of other things. (I myself only know which animation/FX issues are taking priority of other animation/FX issues)
The known issues list is kind of in unknown territory. I'm not sure if there is anyone who's responsibility is to keep that thing updated on a regular basis...and I'm not sure if there actually is a way to keep it updated anyway. What should go on the known issues list is things that are currently broken in the live game, are known about by us, and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
It can't ever be the "Here are all of the bugs we know about" list because our bug tracking database literally has tens of thousands of 'known issues'. Some have been fixed, some aren't actually bugs, many are duplicates of bugs, etc. There's no reasonable way anyone could parse through our bug database and condense it into a list on a regular basis. Even updating it with a list of things that we know about and have already fixed is problematic and requires the people who fix things to manually tell someone to update the list. So the likeliehood of the known issues list ever being up to the minute and comprehensive is slim to none. It can certainly be more comprehensive and up to the date that it currently is, but it'll always be something that's managed ad hoc.
Finally, we are in a particularly chaotic point in update schedule. We're beginning the transition between I13 on live and I14 (which used to be part of I13) on it's way to beta testing--always a troublesome time in the update process. We're also working ahead on things for post I14 launch (booster packs, anniversary event, etc)...as well as Issues 15 and 16. Many things going into I14 can't go into I13 without horrible consequences. Likewise with I15 and I16. So, we're currently dealing with more future builds than we ever have and more open branches as well. Trust me, it's just as frustrating for us as it is for you guys. But we'll get through it and things will smooth out. Absolute worst case scenario is by the time Issue 14 goes live...at that point one of the builds/branches we're juggling (I13) is closed for good. Pretty hopeful that things will smooth out long befor then though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Things will go well because we have Awesomely Awesome Devs! Keep up the quality work back there where we can't see it folks. Some of us love ya.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
[ QUOTE ]
Cathulhu gets at the textual reasoning behind the Reformed change, but makes the conclusion that it's related to side-switching as an eventual reality in this game. There's another possibility that looks increasingly likely with the change to base crafting counting for the Artisan series. That reason is literalism.
Now, this is speculative and based on two whole data points, which really isn't enough to form a pattern, but can at least imply a direction. With the changes to the badge UI in Issue 13, we got more informative progress bars and hint texts. My speculation is that now, someone has decided to go through all of those hints, names and descriptions for badges and see if any were awarding in ways contrary to same in a very literal fashion. Hence, Reformed, with both name and description implying a villain that switched sides, and the Artisan series, with texts that explicitly state that they are for Invention crafting, get changed.
Those changes are logical and valid, from a literalist point of view. The question becomes whether or not they are really wise decisions. My opinion of that is that they aren't. They are reductive changes that are only going to serve to alienate members of the community. They are minor annoyances, to be sure, but those are often worse than painful changes. With a big, painful change, it happens and it's over, like a short, sharp headache. Minor annoyances, on the other hand, are like a long, dull discomfort at the base of the skull, they may not cause you to have to immediately stop what you're doing and address them, but they make it hard to focus on what you're doing over a longer term. At least, that what it's like for me. Those minor annoyances stick with me for a long time and add up. I've quit jobs and dropped classes over a build up of such little things in real life.
I would ask here that those in charge reconsider before continuing on this literalist path, even if there are very few more things in the game that need to be changed to reflect the literal meaning of the text. Instead, think about changing the text to something more ambiguous and just leave the methods of earning these things as they are. It will make for less headaches (Yes, I referenced my own metaphor from the previous paragraph. Wanna make something of it? 
) for you and your customers in the future.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this sums it up nicely and reasonably.
Bravo.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cathulhu gets at the textual reasoning behind the Reformed change, but makes the conclusion that it's related to side-switching as an eventual reality in this game. There's another possibility that looks increasingly likely with the change to base crafting counting for the Artisan series. That reason is literalism.
Now, this is speculative and based on two whole data points, which really isn't enough to form a pattern, but can at least imply a direction. With the changes to the badge UI in Issue 13, we got more informative progress bars and hint texts. My speculation is that now, someone has decided to go through all of those hints, names and descriptions for badges and see if any were awarding in ways contrary to same in a very literal fashion. Hence, Reformed, with both name and description implying a villain that switched sides, and the Artisan series, with texts that explicitly state that they are for Invention crafting, get changed.
Those changes are logical and valid, from a literalist point of view. The question becomes whether or not they are really wise decisions. My opinion of that is that they aren't. They are reductive changes that are only going to serve to alienate members of the community. They are minor annoyances, to be sure, but those are often worse than painful changes. With a big, painful change, it happens and it's over, like a short, sharp headache. Minor annoyances, on the other hand, are like a long, dull discomfort at the base of the skull, they may not cause you to have to immediately stop what you're doing and address them, but they make it hard to focus on what you're doing over a longer term. At least, that what it's like for me. Those minor annoyances stick with me for a long time and add up. I've quit jobs and dropped classes over a build up of such little things in real life.
I would ask here that those in charge reconsider before continuing on this literalist path, even if there are very few more things in the game that need to be changed to reflect the literal meaning of the text. Instead, think about changing the text to something more ambiguous and just leave the methods of earning these things as they are. It will make for less headaches (Yes, I referenced my own metaphor from the previous paragraph. Wanna make something of it? ) for you and your customers in the future.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this sums it up nicely and reasonably.
Bravo.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can buy that with the Reformed badge, but, isn't crafting an brainstorm using the invention table to invent something from a component?
[ QUOTE ]
...unless you're a producer here, you cannot know which things are getting addressed in lieu of other things.
...
The known issues list is kind of in unknown territory.
...
It can't ever be the "Here are all of the bugs we know about" list because our bug tracking database literally has tens of thousands of 'known issues'.
...
There's no reasonable way anyone could parse through our bug database and condense it into a list on a regular basis.
...
Trust me, it's just as frustrating for us as it is for you guys. But we'll get through it and things will smooth out.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh. Where's Sabercat when you need someone to parse through tens of thousands of individual pages of data to distill out a certain thread of desired narrative?
(Sabercat (if I remember the name correctly) was the guy who created a bot to troll all the forum threads looking for redname posts to collate them all into a single thread, which forced the devs to originally create the dev digest forum to do the same thing but at much less forum performance expense as the bot was pretty heavy on forcing the forum server to do things.)
But it really just seems like you need to do two relatively small things. 1) put a disclaimer on the known issues list stating that it isn't being maintained diligently and thus should not be considered a complete source of information at any time, and 2) hire a contractor with database expertise to over a couple of months whip up some nice filters on your bugs database to distill out a reasonably good set of current issues as an automated process. Then decide how best to expose that set in all or in part to the outside playerbase.
In any case, just keep up the good work. We'll get there.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No offense BaB's i know its not your fualt but you need to tell the "Man" you guys need to slow it down and fix things that are broken before jumping 10 issues ahead of whats currently on live.
[/ QUOTE ]
Slow down? With Champions Online slated for "Spring 2009", and DCUO slated for release before the end of the year, what should the production schedule be? 
Also
[/ QUOTE ]
im thinking they need to do what i in retail "have" to do..work overtime.
honestly how much less content can you give before you realize people are leaving..
and its not cause of other games...but because of your decisions.
[ QUOTE ]
We're departmentalized here. The people who would be responsible for fixing things like game crashes, bugs with text chat, etc are not the same people who do things like tweak powers, change badges, or fiddle with animation/FX. I've said this many times before, but people keep using this "Why did they do X instead of fixing Y" arguement and unless you're a producer here, you cannot know which things are getting addressed in lieu of other things. (I myself only know which animation/FX issues are taking priority of other animation/FX issues)
[/ QUOTE ]
I get this. I really do. However at that point I would like to say that I would like a response from some of the following people:
* The producer. <-The buck stops at this point.
* Positron as the lead developer (and at last I've heard badge person) he is supposed to be "in charge" of the day to day operations.
* If Positron is not the badge person, that person has a LOT of explaining to do in regards to both the reformed and the brainstorm crafting issues.
* Sunstorm or whoever is in charge of salvage. The removal of base salvage was not adequately explained, and despite how the player base's reaction, was shoved down our throats.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No offense BaB's i know its not your fualt but you need to tell the "Man" you guys need to slow it down and fix things that are broken before jumping 10 issues ahead of whats currently on live.
[/ QUOTE ]
Slow down? With Champions Online slated for "Spring 2009", and DCUO slated for release before the end of the year, what should the production schedule be?
Also
[/ QUOTE ]
im thinking they need to do what i in retail "have" to do..work overtime.
[/ QUOTE ]
I suspect there's a LOT of overtime work being done. I may disagree with some (OK, a lot) of the decisions they make, but I know just enough to realize how much stuff they're biting off, and it's not something they're doing on a 9 to 5 job.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
Leave the dev's alone.
They worked miracles with 13 people, now that they're on steroids and upstaffed you're going to see some AWESOME content coming.
Let. Them. Work.
[ QUOTE ]
Leave the dev's alone.
They worked miracles with 13 people, now that they're on steroids and upstaffed you're going to see some AWESOME content coming.
Let. Them. Work.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont care if they are snorting magic pixie dust directly off their keyboard trays and engaging in pagan fertility rituals....
silence on the crafting issue that was offered as a "benefit" of the base salvage debacle and then having said benefit yanked out from under us with not a word or warning plain sucks. And we are Still waiting on a actual answer as to why this change occurred and not the mythical "Some people were too stupid to understand base vs. invention slavage" popup screen thingy issues.
80% of my global friends list didnt bother show up for 2xp Weekend, and thats never happened, and several of them are people I have gamed with since the 90's. Things are slipping, and we seem to be taking 2 steps forward and 6 steps back
Nothing says "fun" like "SVN branches".
[ QUOTE ]
Nothing says "fun" like "SVN branches".
[/ QUOTE ]
SVN branches are lots of fun. It's merging them back together afterwards that isn't...
@Mindshadow
[ QUOTE ]
The known issues list is kind of in unknown territory. I'm not sure if there is anyone who's responsibility is to keep that thing updated on a regular basis...and I'm not sure if there actually is a way to keep it updated anyway. What should go on the known issues list is things that are currently broken in the live game, are known about by us, and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Babs, I've worked in IT Change & Release Management for over 20 years.
Get your boss to give me a call about a job! 
[ QUOTE ]
silence on the crafting issue that was offered as a "benefit" of the base salvage debacle and then having said benefit yanked out from under us with not a word or warning plain sucks. And we are Still waiting on a actual answer as to why this change occurred and not the mythical "Some people were too stupid to understand base vs. invention slavage" popup screen thingy issues.
[/ QUOTE ]
No...see, "waiting" implies that you cease your actions and allow what you're waiting for to happen (a response). The most vocal players in this thread are not waiting, nor have they been waiting, nor will they wait. They continue to press the issue at every opportunity, thereby making it a one-sided struggle. The avalanche of "why won't they say something?1!!?" or "still no answers even though it's been ten minutes since my last post on the same subject" makes the perceived silence from the Devs worse than it actually is.
What's that saying about a watched pot?
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
Next, it'll be posts claiming that the Devs are hatching a Nemesis plot.
[ QUOTE ]
Next, it'll be posts claiming that the Devs are hatching a Nemesis plot.
[/ QUOTE ]
You kidding? At this point the developers ARE a Nemesis plot.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
[ QUOTE ]
No...see, "waiting" implies that you cease your actions and allow what you're waiting for to happen (a response).
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually waiting in this case could also be defined as "expecting", and that implies no such thing as ceasing actions. Additionally it could also mean any period of time between asking for an answer and finally getting one. If you are going to say someone is implying something you might not want to narrowly define a potentially vague term.
[ QUOTE ]
The most vocal players in this thread are not waiting, nor have they been waiting, nor will they wait. They continue to press the issue at every opportunity, thereby making it a one-sided struggle.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well as part of running a fan newsletter, at least part of my duties are fact-finding and being a reporter.
[ QUOTE ]
The avalanche of "why won't they say something?1!!?" or "still no answers even though it's been ten minutes since my last post on the same subject" makes the perceived silence from the Devs worse than it actually is.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, the 4 month delay (since the start of Issue 13 Closed Beta) for a believable response as to why base salvage was removed makes the silence from the developers worse than it should have been. The lame duck "party line" reply that Sunstorm made two months ago isn't believable by anyone on these forums except possibly the Red Names.
Making more changes that upset players with no explanation is only fueling the hostility against the developers. Going back on the lead developer's statements without explanation is just the icing on the cake of the whole thing.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
[ QUOTE ]
Hear ,hear! Im not much for the sit down and shut up attitude either. A lot of us have invested time and money in this franchise and have been loyal despite past problems but these issues were always explained to us. This new closed mouth policy reeks of the Orwellian and I for one will have none of it. Explain yourselves and be quick about it! Fore as you can plainly see...we are all short on patience. In this time of recession im sure most of us could find another use for your monthly stipend.
[/ QUOTE ]Did you even read BaB's post at all? I hope the devs put you on ignore.
I'm no dev fanboy, but the explanation he provided is very logical and reasonable for me to accept.
Global - @Proton Sentinel
Jack Devon Crab Spider VEAT; Virtue
Mordigen Earth/Storm on Liberty and Virtue
Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR