[ QUOTE ]
So let's wait out for a response from the Devs before we pull out our stakes and hammers and crucify them before they have a chance meet, discuss, decide and reply.
[/ QUOTE ]
ROFLMAO
A response from the devs?
About the game itself?
*Dev started* feedback, discussion, and other types of "player response" threads go on for weeks (or longer) the die a silent death or be closed without ever seeing a whiff of "dev response" or input of any kind. Training room builds are bugged to death and dozens of posts about said bugs are written, just to have the build go live with the bug(s) in place, followed by a patch and a "whoops we didn't notice that bug".
You are kidding aren't you?
[ QUOTE ]
At a guess, it will likely be a bullet point from the community reps at a meeting talking about player feedback. Something along the lines of "Players are upset about this change."
Then they'll have to debate this or something else they deem more important (at which point this will get lost in the shuffle).
[/ QUOTE ]
It seems like a LOT of stuff is getting lost in the shuffle of late.......
Bold added by me
::edited for a misplaced \
[ QUOTE ]
I suspect the developers are very busy preparing I14, the next booster pack and future content, and I don't expect things to be fixed overnight. But I'm talking about major, universal, problems that cropped up before the winter event and I guess I'm kind of stunned at the lack of notice or mention of them. Moreso when I look at the content of this patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quick responses to general tone of many posts in this thread
We're departmentalized here. The people who would be responsible for fixing things like game crashes, bugs with text chat, etc are not the same people who do things like tweak powers, change badges, or fiddle with animation/FX. I've said this many times before, but people keep using this "Why did they do X instead of fixing Y" arguement and unless you're a producer here, you cannot know which things are getting addressed in lieu of other things. (I myself only know which animation/FX issues are taking priority of other animation/FX issues)
The known issues list is kind of in unknown territory. I'm not sure if there is anyone who's responsibility is to keep that thing updated on a regular basis...and I'm not sure if there actually is a way to keep it updated anyway. What should go on the known issues list is things that are currently broken in the live game, are known about by us, and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
It can't ever be the "Here are all of the bugs we know about" list because our bug tracking database literally has tens of thousands of 'known issues'. Some have been fixed, some aren't actually bugs, many are duplicates of bugs, etc. There's no reasonable way anyone could parse through our bug database and condense it into a list on a regular basis. Even updating it with a list of things that we know about and have already fixed is problematic and requires the people who fix things to manually tell someone to update the list. So the likeliehood of the known issues list ever being up to the minute and comprehensive is slim to none. It can certainly be more comprehensive and up to the date that it currently is, but it'll always be something that's managed ad hoc.
Finally, we are in a particularly chaotic point in update schedule. We're beginning the transition between I13 on live and I14 (which used to be part of I13) on it's way to beta testing--always a troublesome time in the update process. We're also working ahead on things for post I14 launch (booster packs, anniversary event, etc)...as well as Issues 15 and 16. Many things going into I14 can't go into I13 without horrible consequences. Likewise with I15 and I16. So, we're currently dealing with more future builds than we ever have and more open branches as well. Trust me, it's just as frustrating for us as it is for you guys. But we'll get through it and things will smooth out. Absolute worst case scenario is by the time Issue 14 goes live...at that point one of the builds/branches we're juggling (I13) is closed for good. Pretty hopeful that things will smooth out long befor then though.
BAB, I understand the chaos, I understand the business. What I don't understand are the reasons for the changes made. And the only conclusions I'm coming up with from these changes are pretty negative ones.
If there's no time to explain why something is being taken away...it shouldn't have been taken away. If there's no time to say "this is why we thing people getting redeemed is a bad thing"...then don't remove it until there is time. If there's no time to stop giving progress on crafting from brainstorms, then don't remove it until there is time.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I suspect the developers are very busy preparing I14, the next booster pack and future content, and I don't expect things to be fixed overnight. But I'm talking about major, universal, problems that cropped up before the winter event and I guess I'm kind of stunned at the lack of notice or mention of them. Moreso when I look at the content of this patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quick responses to general tone of many posts in this thread
We're departmentalized here. The people who would be responsible for fixing things like game crashes, bugs with text chat, etc are not the same people who do things like tweak powers, change badges, or fiddle with animation/FX. I've said this many times before, but people keep using this "Why did they do X instead of fixing Y" arguement and unless you're a producer here, you cannot know which things are getting addressed in lieu of other things. (I myself only know which animation/FX issues are taking priority of other animation/FX issues)
The known issues list is kind of in unknown territory. I'm not sure if there is anyone who's responsibility is to keep that thing updated on a regular basis...and I'm not sure if there actually is a way to keep it updated anyway. What should go on the known issues list is things that are currently broken in the live game, are known about by us, and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
It can't ever be the "Here are all of the bugs we know about" list because our bug tracking database literally has tens of thousands of 'known issues'. Some have been fixed, some aren't actually bugs, many are duplicates of bugs, etc. There's no reasonable way anyone could parse through our bug database and condense it into a list on a regular basis. Even updating it with a list of things that we know about and have already fixed is problematic and requires the people who fix things to manually tell someone to update the list. So the likeliehood of the known issues list ever being up to the minute and comprehensive is slim to none. It can certainly be more comprehensive and up to the date that it currently is, but it'll always be something that's managed ad hoc.
Finally, we are in a particularly chaotic point in update schedule. We're beginning the transition between I13 on live and I14 (which used to be part of I13) on it's way to beta testing--always a troublesome time in the update process. We're also working ahead on things for post I14 launch (booster packs, anniversary event, etc)...as well as Issues 15 and 16. Many things going into I14 can't go into I13 without horrible consequences. Likewise with I15 and I16. So, we're currently dealing with more future builds than we ever have and more open branches as well. Trust me, it's just as frustrating for us as it is for you guys. But we'll get through it and things will smooth out. Absolute worst case scenario is by the time Issue 14 goes live...at that point one of the builds/branches we're juggling (I13) is closed for good. Pretty hopeful that things will smooth out long befor then though.
[/ QUOTE ]
No offense BaB's i know its not your fualt but you need to tell the "Man" you guys need to slow it down and fix things that are broken before jumping 10 issues ahead of whats currently on live. If your on Issue 15 well 12 still has stuff that broken in it and hasnt, to my knowledge, been looked at or even acknowledged by any of the dev staff nor have many of the "Bugs" we've posted about been said thier on a list and their known issues and will hopefully get fixed.... NO thats not whats happening here. What seems to be happeneing by many of us here is we "The Playerbase" seems to be being ignored in hopes we will just leave and be replaced by some mindless paying drone who will take anything you give um and tell you"NCSoft" how much they like it that way. SoE did this with both SWG and The Matrix Online. Last i heard SWG had major issues with PvP and PvE and the Emulater was nearing completion(Runs off to the EMU website to check status), ok back. and from what i understand of the Matrix Online, ok well i havent heard anything in over 2-3 years ever.. Its like the game is dead but even SoE wont comment if its still alive. So if NCSoft's Buisness plan is to follow SoE's example please tell us as many of us will go somewhere else and let ya all run the game how you want it to be played, If not please atleast acknowledge that some of the issues we've posted about are being looked at or "In the works" no need to mention details just give us a yes its getting fixed Soon or No we didnt know bout that. Other wise many of us get the " We are ignoreing you, Send us more moneys so we can make more moneys/year".
Again not getting Mad at YOU BaB's we just feel that currently things are slacking that we fill could be fixed relativly easy, I.E. PATCH NOTES!. ok ending my rant here.
[ QUOTE ]
No offense BaB's i know its not your fualt but you need to tell the "Man" you guys need to slow it down and fix things that are broken before jumping 10 issues ahead of whats currently on live.
[/ QUOTE ]
Slow down? With Champions Online slated for "Spring 2009", and DCUO slated for release before the end of the year, what should the production schedule be? 
Also, aren't "compare & contrast" threads disallowed?
excellent write up, BackAlleyBrawler. Thank you for the info.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I suspect the developers are very busy preparing I14, the next booster pack and future content, and I don't expect things to be fixed overnight. But I'm talking about major, universal, problems that cropped up before the winter event and I guess I'm kind of stunned at the lack of notice or mention of them. Moreso when I look at the content of this patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quick responses to general tone of many posts in this thread
[snip]
Finally, we are in a particularly chaotic point in update schedule. We're beginning the transition between I13 on live and I14 (which used to be part of I13) on it's way to beta testing--always a troublesome time in the update process. We're also working ahead on things for post I14 launch (booster packs, anniversary event, etc)...as well as Issues 15 and 16. Many things going into I14 can't go into I13 without horrible consequences. Likewise with I15 and I16. So, we're currently dealing with more future builds than we ever have and more open branches as well. Trust me, it's just as frustrating for us as it is for you guys. But we'll get through it and things will smooth out. Absolute worst case scenario is by the time Issue 14 goes live...at that point one of the builds/branches we're juggling (I13) is closed for good. Pretty hopeful that things will smooth out long befor then though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the heads-up, BaB. Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No offense BaB's i know its not your fualt but you need to tell the "Man" you guys need to slow it down and fix things that are broken before jumping 10 issues ahead of whats currently on live.
[/ QUOTE ]
Slow down? With Champions Online slated for "Spring 2009", and DCUO slated for release before the end of the year, what should the production schedule be?
Also, aren't "compare & contrast" threads disallowed?
[/ QUOTE ]
Wasnt really compareing and contrasting was just showing that this(Current schedule) will only drive the current player base into a rage as has been shown treuout history when major changes are made without any reasoning behind said change SoE was mentioned because they are the best example of what not to do for an MMO. And they do need to slow down SPECIALLY with CO coming out and DCUO in the works a more stable game is much better then a game full of stuff that hardly works(Looks at SOE again).
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I suspect the developers are very busy preparing I14, the next booster pack and future content, and I don't expect things to be fixed overnight. But I'm talking about major, universal, problems that cropped up before the winter event and I guess I'm kind of stunned at the lack of notice or mention of them. Moreso when I look at the content of this patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quick responses to general tone of many posts in this thread
We're departmentalized here. The people who would be responsible for fixing things like game crashes, bugs with text chat, etc are not the same people who do things like tweak powers, change badges, or fiddle with animation/FX. I've said this many times before, but people keep using this "Why did they do X instead of fixing Y" arguement and unless you're a producer here, you cannot know which things are getting addressed in lieu of other things. (I myself only know which animation/FX issues are taking priority of other animation/FX issues)
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't let people who don't grasp the concept of division of labour stress you too much. They're probably the same folks who think the mayor drives the snow-plow in their town. 
<cue someone bringing up their snow-plow driving mayor...>
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No offense BaB's i know its not your fualt but you need to tell the "Man" you guys need to slow it down and fix things that are broken before jumping 10 issues ahead of whats currently on live.
[/ QUOTE ]
Slow down? With Champions Online slated for "Spring 2009", and DCUO slated for release before the end of the year, what should the production schedule be?
Also, aren't "compare & contrast" threads disallowed?
[/ QUOTE ]
Wasnt really compareing and contrasting was just showing that this(Current schedule) will only drive the current player base into a rage as has been shown treuout history when major changes are made without any reasoning behind said change SoE was mentioned because they are the best example of what not to do for an MMO. And they do need to slow down SPECIALLY with CO coming out and DCUO in the works a more stable game is much better then a game full of stuff that hardly works(Looks at SOE again).
[/ QUOTE ]
I will argue that players who go into a rage over an MMO really need to find another outlet.
I will also point out that comparing a Live product to products that are still in beta testing (or have yet to start) is hardly equivalent. How many bugs will CO or DCUO have when they are launched? What bugs will be critical enough to postpone release, and which will be released at launch as Known Issues to be fixed later? One can only speculate at the stability of either of these hitherto-nonexistent products yet.
And by what are you comparing CoX to SOE products? I cannot follow your logic. Are you attempting to compare minor game bugs to NGE? If so, IMO, the bugs and changes mentioned earlier in this thread pale in comparison. It's like comparing a missing lugnut to a transmission replacement, in an automotive sense.
[ QUOTE ]
We're also working ahead on things for post I14 launch (booster packs, anniversary event, etc)
[/ QUOTE ]
BaB confirms it: I14 will be out before the next anniversary event!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We're also working ahead on things for post I14 launch (booster packs, anniversary event, etc)
[/ QUOTE ]
BaB confirms it: I14 will be out before the next anniversary event!
[/ QUOTE ]
According to the schedule announced by Posi, it must be, as I15 is slated for the anniversary.
Hm. When's the next anniversary again?
[ QUOTE ]
The known issues list is kind of in unknown territory. I'm not sure if there is anyone who's responsibility is to keep that thing updated on a regular basis...and I'm not sure if there actually is a way to keep it updated anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
I *dimly* recall from a few years back (years?!) that Positron was compiling an informal list. But that was yesterday I guess, and this is today...
Sounds like y'all either need more interdepartmental meetings or an open bar to bridge the gaps in communication. May I recommend Bacardi?
PS: Good post. Its good to have you back online - thanks for making the time to comment. It's *extremely* appreciated.
End of April, I believe.
Hi guys again,
Just to put up some defence for the Devs. *toggles [Grant Cover] *
I'm not saying they are right about everything. I work in a big organisation and I can understand the frustraton of being in one. There are rules and processes to follow to run smoothly. I believe the Devs for CoX are not free from red tape and all. I also believe and hope in the innate goodness of the Devs wanting to make this a good product. When I mentioned meet, discuss, decide in the last post, I didn't mean Devs meet players. I meant the different "Departmental Heads" meet up, fight for what they feel should be changed and change them.
If the assumption is that ALL Devs are out to screw us, then I guess there is not need for arguments/grouses/whatever.
Sure, there have been bugs, wrong spelling, mission arrows not corrected (Argot Burwhot or something IIRC) but it's something we can all live with for now. Do we still get xp? Yes. Do we still get merits? Yes. Do we level up with no bugs? Yes. I think these basic requirements are good enough for me for now, till the bugs work out.
And thanks to Back Aley Brawler for the long reply. Appreciate it and shows that the Devs are concerned.
And cheers. I hope I did not offend anyone with this post. Now that makes it $0.04 for this post.
*clicks [One With The Shield] in anticipation of the backblast for the next 2 min*
edited to change OWTS from toggle to click. Been a while since I last used it.
Hear ,hear! Im not much for the sit down and shut up attitude either. A lot of us have invested time and money in this franchise and have been loyal despite past problems but these issues were always explained to us. This new closed mouth policy reeks of the Orwellian and I for one will have none of it. Explain yourselves and be quick about it! Fore as you can plainly see...we are all short on patience. In this time of recession im sure most of us could find another use for your monthly stipend.
"The first rule of 'Tights Club' is,...We don't talk about Tights Club."
"PANCAKEPANCAKEPANCAKE?" What the PANCAKE is this PANCAKE?!....I can't say PANCAKE?
Fanboy: "The Devs don't want this to become city of jetbikes."
Struck: "Bite my shiny metal Jetboard, coffin stuffer!"
[ QUOTE ]
We're departmentalized here. The people who would be responsible for fixing things like game crashes, bugs with text chat, etc are not the same people who do things like tweak powers, change badges, or fiddle with animation/FX. I've said this many times before, but people keep using this "Why did they do X instead of fixing Y" arguement and unless you're a producer here, you cannot know which things are getting addressed in lieu of other things. (I myself only know which animation/FX issues are taking priority of other animation/FX issues)
[/ QUOTE ]
Issue 13 created a situation where the Reformed badge was no longer awarding. Thus giving heroes a progress bar that would not fill. This caused people to point out the issue in various threads.
At that point, there are 2 choices:
- Fix the bar so it starts counting again.
- Hide the broken bar so people don't notice it's stopping at 999.
This was not a "X instead of Y" regarding badges vs anything else.
This was, however, an "X instead of Y" from the view of what action that one person fixing the badge decided to take!
THAT is what I think requires a bit of an explanation. After the change in I13 was over and done and finally noticed in the badge forum, why did this patch choose to fix the buggy meter by hiding the meter instead of making it completable?
[ QUOTE ]
Finally, we are in a particularly chaotic point in update schedule. We're beginning the transition between I13 on live and I14 (which used to be part of I13) on it's way to beta testing--always a troublesome time in the update process. We're also working ahead on things for post I14 launch (booster packs, anniversary event, etc)...as well as Issues 15 and 16. Many things going into I14 can't go into I13 without horrible consequences. Likewise with I15 and I16. So, we're currently dealing with more future builds than we ever have and more open branches as well. Trust me, it's just as frustrating for us as it is for you guys. But we'll get through it and things will smooth out. Absolute worst case scenario is by the time Issue 14 goes live...at that point one of the builds/branches we're juggling (I13) is closed for good. Pretty hopeful that things will smooth out long befor then though.
[/ QUOTE ]
PR wise you're the best thing this product has going for it, your employers should note that.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Finally, we are in a particularly chaotic point in update schedule. We're beginning the transition between I13 on live and I14 (which used to be part of I13) on it's way to beta testing--always a troublesome time in the update process. We're also working ahead on things for post I14 launch (booster packs, anniversary event, etc)...as well as Issues 15 and 16. Many things going into I14 can't go into I13 without horrible consequences. Likewise with I15 and I16. So, we're currently dealing with more future builds than we ever have and more open branches as well. Trust me, it's just as frustrating for us as it is for you guys. But we'll get through it and things will smooth out. Absolute worst case scenario is by the time Issue 14 goes live...at that point one of the builds/branches we're juggling (I13) is closed for good. Pretty hopeful that things will smooth out long befor then though.
[/ QUOTE ]
PR wise you're the best thing this product has going for it, your employers should note that.
[/ QUOTE ]
QFT.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Finally, we are in a particularly chaotic point in update schedule. We're beginning the transition between I13 on live and I14 (which used to be part of I13) on it's way to beta testing--always a troublesome time in the update process. We're also working ahead on things for post I14 launch (booster packs, anniversary event, etc)...as well as Issues 15 and 16. Many things going into I14 can't go into I13 without horrible consequences. Likewise with I15 and I16. So, we're currently dealing with more future builds than we ever have and more open branches as well. Trust me, it's just as frustrating for us as it is for you guys. But we'll get through it and things will smooth out. Absolute worst case scenario is by the time Issue 14 goes live...at that point one of the builds/branches we're juggling (I13) is closed for good. Pretty hopeful that things will smooth out long befor then though.
[/ QUOTE ]
PR wise you're the best thing this product has going for it, your employers should note that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, it appears no one is specifically assigned that task.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
There's no reasonable way anyone could parse through our bug database and condense it into a list on a regular basis.
[/ QUOTE ]
That explains a lot.
[ QUOTE ]
The known issues list is kind of in unknown territory.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's one of my favorite statements ever. 
MA Arc: School Spirit #89349
Original member of the Dream Team Aeon, Virtue division
"A base here or there is a small price to pay for good mad science."--Arbiter Daos
[ QUOTE ]
Just please try to remember that a lot of the people who are being critical love this game and only complain because they care about it. It's frustrating when bad things happen that should be preventable.
Wait, what?
Ok guys, I normally stick up for you when people get upset about bugs in new issues and patches. I maintain servers for a living, and I also develop software, so I know that these things take time to track down and get fixed, and sometimes issues crop up when it goes live that didn't happen during test.
This isn't one of them. Seriously, does anyone even read the training room boards? Lately it seems like a large portion of the problems brought up there end up going live without being fixed. Not little things that we can live with, but issues that adversely affect a large segment of the player base, or make you look bad when you have to tell people to ignore the problem.
Why is it that when the patch went live, it was (at least) two incremental builds ahead of what's on test? Whatever changed in those somehow caused things that were fixed on test to regress, not to mention new and exciting bugs popping up. Bugs in things that were thoroughly tested and found to not be a problem.
Seriously, what's the point of a test server if what's been tested isn't actually what goes live? I know you have an internal test and QA department, but they can't possibly replicate the conditions of actual gameplay from around the globe, and all the edge and corner cases that it can expose.
Anyway, I feel better now that I've had my mini-rant.
[/ QUOTE ]
As I have exclaimed since the first time I heard what the Regen rate was on AVs 27 months ago...
...right after it was tested and the testers screamed that it was too high.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"