A Plea - COV and COH Costume Pieces
By
Aaron123,
Posted on: 2005-10-20 13:24 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Isn't there a hero called Ghost Rider with a skull head ?
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Yep, plus the Punisher and The Phantom have skulls. Liquid pointed out that they are vigilantes, but nearly all superheroes are vigilantes. Yes some do "get a pass" from the authorities, or have been officially "ok'ed" by the authorities, but a lot of them fight crime because they want to, not because somebody gave them the authority to.
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If villains powers are the same as heroes, and villains now look the same as heroes, how different are they really?
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How different are we really anyway? It isn't how they look that makes them heroes or villians, it is what they do. One side fights for justice and the other for themselves, both in their own way. They are plenty of arguements on "questionable" heroes, Wolverine, Venom, Punisher, because of how they deal out justice. Hell, a scrapper's primary is whipping on people.
Lex Luther just looks like an average guy and he is the arch-villian to the ultimate goody goody super hero, Superman. If we were to take implied thoughts from that, man is the ultimate villian. Fact is, it doesn't matter. Looks mean nothing, it is about the deeds that make the hero or villian. Make the 4 foot girl with pigtails a villian and the demon the hero. The reason that it happens in the comics is because of the diversity of life. Should be no different in the COH/COV.
what about making sure Villains who own both games get the hero only items (pointy ears, shoulder kitties, certain patterns, certain faces)? Or is the absence of those from villains a bug in beta?
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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I'm sorry. I can't type the first thing that popped into my head, but if you read the cape thread on the beta boards... you could guess...
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I became for to giddy and excited when I finally saw the CoV capes.
o_o
I really really really really really really really really hope this happens.
Kung Ru - 50++ MA/Regen Scrapper
Kalleesta - 50 Necro/Dark MM
Hidden Justice - 44 Kin/Psy Defender
Altaholic
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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I'm sorry. I can't type the first thing that popped into my head, but if you read the cape thread on the beta boards... you could guess...
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I became for to giddy and excited when I finally saw the CoV capes.
o_o
I really really really really really really really really hope this happens.
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I don't know if my carpet will survive.
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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I LOVE YOU MAN
Okay, not in any innapropriate way or anything..
STOP LOOKING AT ME
<activates Superspeed and runs away>
Centinull
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I'm not against some of the options coming over, but everything shouldn't either. Why does it have to be all or nothing? Instead of having 1/3 options in common like they originally intended, why not make it 2/3 or 4/5? Why go from one extreme to the other when a compromise would be a lot easier and satisfy both crowds?
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Because a compromise wouldn't satisfy both crowds. I want it all!</villain> Seriously, though, if you only bring over this hypothetical 1/3 of the new costume pieces to CoH, you then have the question of which 1/3 (or 2/3 or 4/5) to bring, which all but guarantees that some people won't get the ones they're looking for. Better to make them all available so that the players can pick and choose for themselves.
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My 2 cents? More options are good, but it's also nice to be able to tell the good from the bad at a glance. Yes, there are "evil looking" heroes in the literature, but if you open the floodgates, you might as well change the name of the game to City of Skull-Headed Demons (Be They Heroes OR Villains).
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I think you underestimate your fellow players. 
I seriously doubt the ratio of 'dark' heroes to 'light' ones is going to change just because we have access to more costume options. Sure, there are inevitably going to end up being some villainous-looking heroes - but we already have those now. Despite the alarmists, I don't think we're going to see a sudden population explosion in the CoH antihero community if this goes through. The dark and spiky antiheroes we have now will likely become darker and spikier, but I suspect that most players who want their characters to look that villainous will want to play them as villains, too. The problem's a self-limiting one. 
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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So what you're saying is that heroes get nothing if they don't buy CoV. I'm disappointed. While I don't object to new costume options for villains if you don't get CoV, and I wouldn't even object to one or two "special" items, like the preorder helmets or the like, several whole categories of costume options is a different story.
If this is just laziness, then don't be lazy. I'd rather have the options added slowly, later, and available to everyone, than have them just handed out in one lump to the "priviledged few". If that means no new options until I7, then so be it. At least you can take the time to incorporate animal-like features and coats, which are what most heroes will want, in a way that still makes them look unique.
If you're going to go through with this, at least make the options available to everyone. There is absolutely no purpose to penalizing those who don't buy CoV outside of just that, penalizing them. This isn't like bases, which require interaction with villains to fulfill their purpose in the game, you can never meet a villain player and still want more options for your costume.
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So what you're saying is that heroes get nothing if they don't buy CoV.
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Nothing besides the new graphics engine, PVP zones, etc., etc., etc. Or by 'nothing' do you mean 'not what you wanted to get for free'? 
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I'm disappointed.
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You really shouldn't be. Why do you feel entitled to free access to all the costume options that other people are paying $50 for? Yes, they're making you pay for the ability to use that content when creating your own characters, rather than just seeing it displayed on others'. No, that's not a bad deal, IMO, even if you don't have any use for the other CoV content. (The people in this thread saying that they'd buy CoV just for the added costume options would seem to agree.)
Cryptic's given CoH players five issues worth of content for no additional cost, which is a lot better than most MMO's (*cougheverquestcough*). Asking people to pay a one-time fee for access to desirable new content at this stage of the game is hardly unreasonable of them.
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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Pretty please, States? We promise not to let our heroes get too carried away with the skulls and spikes....
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If you're going to go through with this, at least make the options available to everyone. There is absolutely no purpose to penalizing those who don't buy CoV outside of just that, penalizing them. This isn't like bases, which require interaction with villains to fulfill their purpose in the game, you can never meet a villain player and still want more options for your costume.
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No they shouldn't.
If you choose not the buy the expansion then you shouldn't get the benefits of the expansion.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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You have just made my friends day! She really wanted them all in both games, as she wanted more options. She wasn't too happy to find out that you couldn't get them all.
Still here, even after all this time!
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More options are good, but it's also nice to be able to tell the good from the bad at a glance.
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The trouble with that argument is that so many of the new CoV costume options aren't inherently evil.
Motorcycle jacket? Lots of heroes have worn a leather jacket, from Ghost Rider to Cyclops to my personal favorite, Jack Knight during his time as Starman.
The leather jacket with the buttons up the side? Perfect for the Rocketeer or any other pulp hero.
Lab coat? Any number of science-based heros. Techbot armor? Any armored hero. Radiation pattern? Firestorm, or any other nuclear hero. Heavy neck chain (in gold)? Mr. T. 
I can see arguing that certain items are more villianous-looking - like the barbed-wire wrap and the monstrous heads. However, I'd rather the Devs spent their time on working on new content instead of having to sit around deciding which pieces are "OK" to be heroic and which ones aren't.
I also don't buy the idea that CoH would be flooded with "Mr. MurderDeathKill" and his spiky-skulled associates, especially if you could only get them as options by buying CoV. I think most of those folks made villain types on CoH because CoV didn't exist yet - so they'll all be over playing with the new toy and actually being villains instead of mean-looking heros.
J
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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Okay, so I can already see I'm in the minority after reading through this thread, but, I really don't think this is the way to go. Yes, I'd say share all of the "neutral" options, the new faces, masks, other innocuous clothes that don't scream "hero" or "villain". I'm all for that, however, I'm also all for certain options being relegated solely for villains.
Monstrous options, zombie options, most of the giant skulls (share the chest emblems since as has been pointed out, 3 comic book anti-heroes have them, so they must be heroic) but leave the giant fanged skull shoulderpads and gloves for the villains, and all the gear that lets you look like an extra from a NIN or Marilyn Manson video (barbed wire/chain wraps) should be relegated solely for villains, imho.
I'd say maybe, 3/4 of the current CoV options can (and should) be included with the CoH options because they are potentially neutral, but I simply don't agree that ALL of them should be shared.
I say if you really want a hulking wolf hero festooned with skulls or a zombie that looks like it's held together with barbed wire then wait for the crossover trial.
What I'd really like to see is to have some unique CoH stuff coded solely for CoH (and fallen heroes). Honestly, I'd love to see 2/10 unique to CoV, 2/10 unique to CoH, and 6/10 crossover gear that can be used by everyone. Adjust ratios as necessary to achieve visionary balance.
Just my two influence.
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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Okay, so I can already see I'm in the minority after reading through this thread, but, I really don't think this is the way to go. Yes, I'd say share all of the "neutral" options, the new faces, masks, other innocuous clothes that don't scream "hero" or "villain". I'm all for that, however, I'm also all for certain options being relegated solely for villains...
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I could live with that, but as soon as you would limit something like that, some individual, comic, cartoon, movie, or the like would come along and break the mold of what a villainous/heroic costume or character should look like. Over the years comics have proven over and over again that heroes and villains aren't about how they look but about what they do and stand for. As soon as someone says "a villain/hero should look this way..." it is a safe bet that shortly thereafter one will be created that doesn't look that way at all.
I'm not for limiting it in any way. All that ends up doing in the long run is stifling someone's options in excercising their creativity, and it still won't provide any significant distinction between the look of heroes and villains except in some incredibly narrow circumstances. Besides, you really shouldn't be able to tell if someone is a hero of villain just by looking at his or her costume or body-type...it isn't that way in the comics and it shouldn't be that way in the game either.
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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I think that would be a great move on your part, but it won't help those players who don't have both. Certainly they should go and GET COV, but that's not the correct solution to the problem that was described.
The message you replied to has nothing to do with making COV costume options available to heroes or vice a versa. It has to do with correcting a problem with costume options that have been with us since COH first went to beta 1.5 years ago.
Those same costume options were made available and then were corrected for COV players. Two things happened there as far as I can tell:
#1: the basic player models were COPIED and then those copied models were edited so that textures above the hairline skin properly. Those same corrections need to be made to the hero models
#2: the database of costume combinations was changed so that circuitry would appear in the full mask and mask with hair, allowing it to be combined with electron. Those same corrections need to be made to the hero costume database.
I have an idea. It starts with 's' and ends with 'litting their throats.'"
-Belkar Bitterleaf, Order of the Stick
Order of the Stick
States, that would be totally awesome. I realize this isn't a definite, but I hope it becomes so. Werewolf heroes, here I come!
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He didn't say "Yes", he said "Maybe".
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Still though, it makes sense. They allmost have to do it once the turncoat missions are in. Otherwise, you'll run into all sorts of problems when you go to get your costume changed after you change sides.
.
"You're a hero now, so we have to break all the bones in your legs and reshape them so that they look 'normal'. Nothing personal, it's just that Paragon City doesn't allow things like clawed feet."
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Heh. That would really, really suck.
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I think that would be a great move on your part, but it won't help those players who don't have both. Certainly they should go and GET COV, but that's not the correct solution to a real problem.
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The message you replied to has nothing to do with making COV costume options available to heroes or vice a versa. It has to do with correcting a problem with costume options that have been with us since COH first went to beta 1.5 years ago.
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Statesman obviously wasn't replying to your broken costume option issue, he just hit "reply" to the last post in the thread (as MANY people do) in order to post in the thread and let everyone know what the intended plan is. He was obviously replying further to the main subject of the thread, not to your off-topic (although perhaps related) issue.
If they've broken something in the past and fixed it in CoV, then yes, of course, they should propagate that fix to CoH as well. But that really isn't the subject of this thread.
(Note: this isn't directed to you, Starwaster) The correct solution to the problem at hand...namely new costume options in CoV not being accessible to heroes when you both CoH and CoV, is to make them available.
What other solution could there be? To give everything to everyone for free? Cryptic and NCSoft aren't running a charity for underprivileged MMORPG players, they are running a business. They already do more than pretty much every other MMORPG out there, namely regularly give us significant new game content such as new zones, ATs, power sets, and..yes...even costume options at no additional charge. I've played half a dozen other MMORPGs and beta tested a dozen of so, and I've NEVER gotten anything significant to speak of from any of them without having to pay extra for it...that is until I started playing CoH. CoV is their first expansion, and it costs more than most expansions because it has much more than expansion usually have...including tons of new costume options, which should in my opinion be available to both heroes and villains IF you buy the expansion.
I'm with the "bring it ALL over" crowd
People argue heroes shouldn't look like villains... but what about villains who look like heroes. The craptastic super-friends version of Lex Luthor isn't all that different from the look of most heroes. Most of Iron Man's foes look the same as he does. Half the "heroic" chicks in CoH look alot like Catwoman.
Anti-heroes aside, Beast has a bestial body. ALOT of very good and righteous mutants in Marvel are very strange looking. Never mind the tormented heroes.
But the primary reason I vote for "all options" is that you can never be sure what exactly you'll be looking for. While we can argue back and forth about the merit of spikey, S&M harnessed, barb-wrapped heroes with skull heads... what about one or two of those pieces? Can you be 100% certain that no hero can make good use of spikey bits? Of scars or sown eyes? Of bestial features? You'd be surprised at what some very clever people can do.
Sure, we'll see some goofy, stupid crap when this first happens (though alot of it will be on CoV, because let's face it, those who want to unleash their darkside will do so as Brutes and Stalkers, rather than another Scrapper), but if you think someone is stupid, just ignore them. That's what I do when I see "RajinCajin14."
It's not like the sight of a zombie hero (and what's wrong with a zombie hero? Undead Boy could be an interesting concept. I'd do Dark Melee/Regen and play up his angst and search for final rest) will offend your eyes and destroy your enjoyment of the game
I just want to know why can't the GUYS wear the fishnets too?
just joking
Fluffy Bunny 1 Person SG
Rabid Bunny 1 Person VG
Both on Pinnacle
Hobbit's Hole 1 Person SG
Spider's Web 1 Person VG
Both on Freedom
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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remember kids this isn't for sure yet.
Via les Faultine Trial!
afterall, they want good/evil to obvious on sight (cause that always works in the movies) in the PvP zones.
'zomg look! a hero you can tell by the bland costume! geddem!'
'lookit 'em skulls on that sucker! It must be a Villian! It's Coming right for us!'
BLAM!
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I usually tell by the orange names.
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Yeah , and in CoV , villains also goes against villains , so youd better use something else than how they look to see if they are hostile lol
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Only in Warburg and base raids.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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Holy crap, did they just do something for us....OMG wow!!
buuuutttt, it would be wierd to see heroes with skull heads...hmmmm
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Why? You maybe have never heard of a guy named Ghost Rider?
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OK - here's the most likely outcome...
If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.
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Okay, so I can already see I'm in the minority after reading through this thread, but, I really don't think this is the way to go. Yes, I'd say share all of the "neutral" options, the new faces, masks, other innocuous clothes that don't scream "hero" or "villain". I'm all for that, however, I'm also all for certain options being relegated solely for villains...
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I could live with that, but as soon as you would limit something like that, some individual, comic, cartoon, movie, or the like would come along and break the mold of what a villainous/heroic costume or character should look like. Over the years comics have proven over and over again that heroes and villains aren't about how they look but about what they do and stand for. As soon as someone says "a villain/hero should look this way..." it is a safe bet that shortly thereafter one will be created that doesn't look that way at all.
I'm not for limiting it in any way. All that ends up doing in the long run is stifling someone's options in excercising their creativity, and it still won't provide any significant distinction between the look of heroes and villains except in some incredibly narrow circumstances. Besides, you really shouldn't be able to tell if someone is a hero of villain just by looking at his or her costume or body-type...it isn't that way in the comics and it shouldn't be that way in the game either.
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Well, see, the advent of the cross-over trial would ensure that there were heroes that look like villains, and villains that look like heroes. That's why I say give some unique options to both CoH and CoV, because then folks who go through that trial will be unique in both costume AND AT. They would truly represent a unique entity and give more incentive to the entire idea of fallen heroes and reformed villains.
I'm also not sold on the whole "well, it happened in the <insert comic title and #> so therefore it should happen in CoH as well" argument. I can understand if say this was a Marvel MMORPG and something happened in Issue #5 of <insert Marvel comic here> where someone would argue that it required a change in the game, but this is a generic MMORPG in it's own universe that has at it's heart premises based in comic book culture. That does not justify using famous (or obscure) comic references to justify why something should or should not be true in CoH and CoV, at least in my humble opinion.
Anyway, that's just my take on it, I'd love if some of the many costume options would remain unique, but the masses have spoken. Heh.
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I will agree.
There are some costume pieces that don't make sense for heroes, like chains, skull heads, zombie skin, and the like, but there are some very nice hats, coats, patterns, and masks that would fit in with the heroes.
Plus we'd finally get the fishnet stockings that are blatantly displayed on the box cover.
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Maybe it's been said, I dont have time to read every page, but havent you ever heard of Ghost Rider or Spawn?
I say bringem all over.
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Did you mean to say The Doctor? 
Wait, you want your Hero to look like a 60 mile long interdimensional space ship?! I don't think the extra options are going to help you.
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I meant the Carrier, but that was just a joke. The Doctor is already almost possible to build, except the psychedelic pattern on the coat.
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My 2 cents? More options are good, but it's also nice to be able to tell the good from the bad at a glance. Yes, there are "evil looking" heroes in the literature, but if you open the floodgates, you might as well change the name of the game to City of Skull-Headed Demons (Be They Heroes OR Villains).
Incidently, I think you could do all of The Authority under the current CoH costume options.
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No Union Jack chest symbol. No dress shirt without a jacket. No trench coat, leather or otherwise. No batman-lookalike hoods. No wings. I'm just nitpicking.
You can tell the good from the bad at a glance? You'll need to be within striking distance to make out the details anyway, and by then it's too late. I'm judging from the draw distance on normal PVE villains and I can't tell the difference between a Tsoo or a Family goon from 100 yards. Seriously, there is no need to limit ourselves for this reason. When I make a costume it's because it's what I plan to look at for the next 500 hours of playing, or so. It's got to look good to me, and I don't care what other people thiink, whether they can "tell at a glance" if I'm good or evil, as if that was ever that easy even in comic books.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522