Resistance against Def debuffs


Adron

 

Posted

As some players have pointed out, Defense builds (Super Reflexes, Ice Armor, Stone Armor to a degree) have an inherent weakness in that there are a plethora of powers that debuff Defense in PvE and PvP.

In order to rectify this situation, we will be adding a Resistance to Defense Debuffs to a number of powers. This Resistance will not be enhanceable, but it will increase over level.

The Resistance % for the powers and Archetypes are as follows. The two numbers represent the Resistance at levels 1 and 50, respectively:

Scrapper
Super Reflexes
Focused Fighting: 4/21.6
Focused Senses: 4/21.6
Agile: 2/10.8
Dodge: 2/10.8
Lucky: 2/10.8
Evasion: 4/21.6
Elude: 10/54

Tanker
Ice Armor
Frozen Armor: 5.2/27.2
Wet Ice: 5.2/27.2
Glacial Armor: 5.3/27.2

Stone Armor
Rock Armor: 5.2/27.2
Rooted: 5.2/27.2
Crystal Armor: 5.2/27.2
Granite Armor: 13/68

The way this works is that the % above represent the amount subtracted from the incoming Defense Debuff. For instance, a level 50 Scrapper with Agile has any incoming Defense Debuff lessened by 10.8%.

Our general philosophy was to make it so that a player could achieve at level 50 high protection against Defense debuffs; a Defense build absolutely depends on the enemy missing his attacks!


 

Posted

Fantastic Statesman!

Question though, when you say lessened by 10.8% does that mean:

A def debuff of 10% is eliminated or;

A def debuff of 10% is reduced to 8.92%?


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Posted

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Awesome! I mean, ARRRR!!!

i think he means the second one EG.

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That's what I think too, otherwise it's grossly overpowered.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

rock on, states. do these resistances stack like armors do? i'm guessing so...but just asking to be sure. also, is this the total of "a little more to come" that you mentioned the other day (about addressing defense build issues), or is there...still a little more to come?


 

Posted

moo


 

Posted

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a Defense build absolutely depends on the enemy missing his attacks!

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And the new DamResist inspirations will help reduce the damage for those times that the attack gets thru the defense. Yes, they are not large resists (and shouldn't be, they are just inspirations, not primary powers), but they are helpful and could be just enough to prevent being one-shotted by the attack that gets thru.


 

Posted

I'll -seriously- have to test this out before I can give an honest opinion, but on paper it looks like an actual, -real- step towards fixing the overbearing weakness of defense sets.

Can't wait to try this out on Test!


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Makes videos & podcasts about reviewing toys, covering conventions, and more at Vangelus.ca

 

Posted

This is still an issue with FF versus Sonic Resonance. The same things that debuff defense for melee debuff defense for FF.

That is, I think, one of the first discrepencies pointed out between the two sets; FF suffers from far more debuffs than SR.


 

Posted

do these stack? if so doesin't that mean that an SR guy with all the powers(at level 50) have a def de-buff de-buff of 90%+? not counting elude.

and about the same for the others


 

Posted

These stack right? So, that's 81.6% resistance to defense debuffs? Or is it a percentage to the type of def the power provides?


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Posted

[ QUOTE ]


Stone Armor
Rock Armor: 5.2/27.2
Rooted: 5.2/27.2
Crystal Armor: 5.2/27.2
Granite Armor: 13/68



[/ QUOTE ]

Is Rooted supposed to be Minerals? Last time I checked, Rooted was a status protection and health regeneration power and didn't offer any other defenses.


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Posted

[ QUOTE ]
do these stack? if so doesin't that mean that an SR guy with all the powers(at level 50) have a def de-buff de-buff of 90%+? not counting elude.

and about the same for the others

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No, since only two of them would stack at the same time (EG: FF/Dodge). Not counting Elude which would effect all of them.


 

Posted

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Is Rooted supposed to be Minerals?


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good question. i'd wait for an official dev response on that, but since rooted gives no +def and minerals is the only +def-based power in the set that wasn't mentioned...i'd say yepper.


 

Posted

I think Focused Fighting will only offer defense debuff resistance against Melee attacks, and Agile against Ranged Attacks and so on. I don't think they all stack together (although Agile and FS, as well as Dodge and FF should stack).

That means at level 50, with your toggles you should have around 32% defense debuff resistance, which sounds like a number the devs would use to me.

I am curious how this will play out.


 

Posted

This is a great change, that's been a long time in coming. I love it.

I am concerned still that defense-based sets have their numbers set too low to really be equal to resist-based or def+resist-based sets.


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Posted

This is great news. I assume when you say subtract you mean "subtract that % of the total from the total" and not "subtract that % from the total", right?

Now how about addressing Smashing and Lethal damage for Ice Tanks, and why its okay to have them so far behind the curve vs the most common damage types in game.

Edit: I get that Stone needs it too pre-Granite, but in thinking about it a bit further, putting this on Granite is completely unneeded. Granite form is RES based at its core, DEF is secondary. Also, I get that it has to be Rooted because Minerals comes too late in the game, but because Rooted stacks with Granite, again there's an issue here. Granite is already good enough, it doesn't need this.

Also a question, do they stack, or do they only defened vs what they already provide defense for. For example, is it a total DEF debuff resistance, or is it, for say Frozen Armor, only protecting vs Smash/Lethal debuffs.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
do these stack? if so doesin't that mean that an SR guy with all the powers(at level 50) have a def de-buff de-buff of 90%+? not counting elude.

and about the same for the others

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No, since only two of them would stack at the same time (EG: FF/Dodge). Not counting Elude which would effect all of them.

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wait...so def de-buffs work on a per type basis? so FF/Doge will resist -melee def only?

what about the Ice armor powers that resist on a damage type. i don't think there are any -fire def powers to resist.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
The Resistance % for the powers and Archetypes are as follows. The two numbers represent the Resistance at levels 1 and 50, respectively:

Scrapper
Super Reflexes
Focused Fighting: 4/21.6
Focused Senses: 4/21.6
Agile: 2/10.8
Dodge: 2/10.8
Lucky: 2/10.8
Evasion: 4/21.6
Elude: 10/54

Tanker
Ice Armor
Frozen Armor: 5.2/27.2
Wet Ice: 5.2/27.2
Glacial Armor: 5.3/27.2

Stone Armor
Rock Armor: 5.2/27.2
Rooted: 5.2/27.2
Crystal Armor: 5.2/27.2
Granite Armor: 13/68

The way this works is that the % above represent the amount subtracted from the incoming Defense Debuff. For instance, a level 50 Scrapper with Agile has any incoming Defense Debuff lessened by 10.8%.

Our general philosophy was to make it so that a player could achieve at level 50 high protection against Defense debuffs; a Defense build absolutely depends on the enemy missing his attacks!

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds really good, but a few things need to be clarified:

Is this a defense debuff resistance on only one defense type, or all defense types? Will my Level 50 /SR scrapper have (w/o Elude):

21.6+21.6+10.8+10.8+10.8+21.6 = 97.2 defense debuff resistance?

Or will he have 32.4 defense debuff resistance to melee, ranged, and AoE attacks respectively?

Does the resistance cap affect defense debuff resistance? If the first scenario is the correct one, will I in fact be limited to 75% resistance instead of 97.2 (which in all fairness, seems pretty high, though I wouldn't complain).

For the Tanker sets, Does my Ice tank get 27.2 resistance to each individual damage type, or is it overall resistance?

Also, will anything be done to address the fact that defense debuffs can be enhanced, but resistance debuffs cannot? Giving resistance based sets the ability to resist resistance debuffs (what a mouthful), and then giving the ability to enhance resistance debuffs seems like this too might go a ways to help balance the differences between the sets.


 

Posted

I hope this applies to APP armors as well, namely Ice Have to see how it works before I can say it's good or not.


Served Cold.


Level 53: Arrows/Devices/Munitions Blaster

....and hopeless Science-Natzi.

 

Posted

Neat idea... I likey.


 

Posted

Nice Hopefully this will help differentiate between rad/storm defenders and controllers as those sets have some heavy defense debuffs. Since defender debuffs are still unresistable it would be better to have a rad/storm defender over a controller to take down heavy defense sets.

A blaster with BU/Aim or a melee with BU/FA could still easily take them down but this is definitely a great start


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Posted

Does this mean Defense based sets are no longer affected by "non-resistable Defender debuffs" in PvP? If not, then this change loses most of it's purpose in that environment.