Statesman_NA

Next time I run into the Eden guys, I'll ask...I usually see them during convention season.

Posi and I did want to make this the year where we gave fans what they've been asking for!

Sorry guys, just learning to survive with one 19 month old and one two week old! Hard to get free time...

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There was probably a thread on this I missed because of weak search-fu, but whatever happened to distributing the 'new powerset for every AT' that was once advertised for the since-cancelled new box edition, among Issues 9-12?

If I9 and I10 come out with no powersets, and the devs are only considering new sets for at most 4 ATs in I11 or I12, what happened to the rest?

Not to bash this efforts, scrappers and tankers need the love first, but is there a long term plan for the rest?

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We did plan out Power Sets for the retail box, but we've gone the route of free updates instead (woohoo!). Yep, we had some planned...and we thought about just putting those into updates as schedule permitted...

but then we thought it'd be cool if we polled the players what they wanted first. Not all of these power sets are of equal difficulty - some are tougher than others - but they are all possible. I can't promise exactly when it'll get in, but please know that we've heard loudly and clearly that players want new power sets.

BTW...Ball and Chain was my little addition last minute. It would be just be SO cool!

As I mentioned a little while ago, we really want to focus on what the players want...that's why we decided to go with this poll. Most of these Power Set ideas came from you guys - in the Archetype and Suggestions boards!

Enjoy!

Yeesh Gadget Don - tell us about it! You've been around forever and a day...I'd love to see your Task Force ideas.

I think player created content can be GREAT...if it's handled correctly.

The problem with OK'ing submissions is partially an issue because of manpower. Depending on the number of submissions, you'd need people entirely devoted to reviewing, approving and ultimately putting that stuff into the game. That's not trivial, to be honest, when dealing with 100,000+ subscribers.

We've always talked about ways to get player material into the game...imagine using the base creator tools to make your own missions! Or a your own training room? Maybe some day we can figure a way to put this stuff into the game. The imagination just on these forums alone is so amazing; I can only hope we find a way an outlet for it.

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An elegant synopsis. I think I'm going to have to go find this article. However, I doubt Jack will be reading this, which is a shame.

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*ahem* I read the boards every day!

When we sat down to design CoH, we wrote on the white board: "fun." Seems obvious, but many games seemed to miss the mark. That's OK; some games don't need to be fun in order to be successful (I won't name them, but they're out there). We wanted to make a game that had fun moment to moment gameplay. Hard to quantify, but easy to identify when you find it.

Cool posts, BTW.

That's neat. Thanks for posting this.

Thanks for the support!

To be honest, criticism comes with the job. I'm not fond of personal attacks, but I understand that people are passionate. Heck, I worked in a comic book store (yep, I was comic book guy), so I understand the vagaries of working with the customer. One thing is tantamount, however - you guys are the PAYING subscribers. I might not like the feedback, but everyone is entitled to an opinion. Admittedly, honey is usually more effective than vinegar, but I always try to look beyond that...

Oh - and I'd love to do a giant mech game. Love it.

Rick and I came up with Crypteia since we'd both worked on Cryptozoology first. We were trying to come up with names based on the "crypt-" part...

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I don't think we're as much of a niche as people like to think.

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Seconded. Before WoW, the benchmark for MMP success was 100,000 subscribers. Admittedly, WoW is a HUGE hit. Gigantic. Perhaps biggest in the PC industry ever, but that shouldn't diminish CoH's place as one of the largest North American MMP's. We're well over that 100,000 mark.

There's no way that NCSoft and Cryptic are going to do anything but continue to give CoH everything we can. I'm still playing, designing and playtesting!

Played? Sure. Me personally: Dark Age, EQ, Anarchy.

I know that Positron played Ultima, EQ, Galaxies.

Yes, I'm still around...

NCSoft (the publisher) and Cryptic Studios (the developer) are still firmly behind City of Heroes. It isn't going anywhere. NCSoft continues to fund a fantastic live team with lots of great stuff to come.

Yes, Cryptic is working on other products. These are different games with different financial backers. We plan on supporting multiple games in the same way that other great developers do.

I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.

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And now the Issues are getting smaller and even less frequent? Issue-7 was a lame duck that should come out of Crytic's pockets, not ours. Boasting an increase in subscription numbers while shrinking the Development team down to a skeleton crew while still charging the same price is unnacceptable. I think I've seen enough... I'm tired of getting screwed. This game's potential has finally decreased the the point that it fails to balance the monthly cost and time investment.

I'll be back when/if they ever come around and accept their share of the burden.

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Skeleton crew? Guys, let's not jump to conclusion here. First, Cryptic Studios hasn't layed anyone off. A quick glance shows we're hiring! Second, NCSoft announced cutbacks, but the announcement didn't specify where people were taken off. Remember, NCSoft is a leading MMORPG publisher. They have LOTS of stuff on the burners...Most of which never see the light of day.

A quick look at our release schedules show that only the first issue was released within two months. The second issue was 79 days later (as noted in this thread). Issue 3 then followed 110 days later, Issue 4 120 days, etc. We started trending more towards 3/year within a few Issues...mostly because we started learning about the production & QA cycle.

Bottom line: CoH remains a success in NCSoft's portfolio. They're continuing to financially support the product for a long time to come...Cryptic Studios loves the game. It's our baby. The game isn't going anywhere!

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Cuts at NCsoft? No cuts at Cryptic at all? (Where's Geko, for example? I remember this being asked before, I think the answer was he's on another NCSoft game)

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Geko is on another Cryptic project.

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The solution is simple. Personal player housing through SG bases.


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Great minds think alike. Posi and I have been talking about this for awhile.

Here's the not so simple bit: the tech. But it's an interesting idea that we're wrangling at the moment.

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Good in theory, not so much in reality.

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Bingo. That pretty much nails our design on bases. We're slowly but surely making additions and changes based on feedback & data. We'll get there...I think bases are a case study where a design didn't mesh well with actual gameplay! For some odd reason, some posters have thought my Serious Games speech blamed the players; heck no! Bases are 100% a DESIGN problem. Not a player problem.

I read this thread thoroughly on Friday and tried to digest all of the good stuff here. I wanted to give some responses to your points & questions. I know Posi and I are constantly thinking of ways that we can improve bases; our eyes are glued to the Base feedback on these forums!

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Obviously because the cost of bases is not 'minimal'

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Bingo! That was the point of my presentation; that the cost exceeds perceived value. The current ability to customize a social space for one’s Super Group isn’t thought to be high enough to justify the Prestige amounts.

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Ya know what another thing I just thought of would help too?

PVE base raids that you could bring non-SG members on.

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Heck, I’d just like the PvE base raid part first!

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And they're hidden away, effectively in their own dimension. Other people can see my costume and go 'wow' simply by my flying past. To see my base, they have to be in a coalition with me, or on my team while we go there (and for that to happen, we need to have a reason for them to go, other than me saying 'come check out the base'). They can't simply happen across it and go 'wow!'

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Interesting point! Some people can see your base, but it’s so much easier for people to see your costume.

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Few people care about the aesthetics of bases. It's just not obviously an expression of one's self, especially if it's been designed by 20+ people, or by someone else. That's the crucial difference between costumes and bases.

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If no one cares about the aesthetics of bases, it all comes down to function ... and there's not a whole lot of function in there.

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But costumes don’t provide ANY gameplay function – and people care a WHOLE lot about them? My point: bases cost too much for what players think they deliver. What they currently deliver is the ability to create a social space for Super Groups that’s potentially customizable to the group’s theme/background/etc.

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Cryptic has failed to deliver an advertised feature of CoV in a working format a full callendar year after the game went live. Had the Cathedral of Pain and Base Raids showed up in anything vaguely resembling a timely manner, there would probably be a much higher level of interest in Bases, despite the flaws in the system that many posters have listed here. For whatever reason, whether it be lack of staff resources, focus shifting to other priorities or indeed other projects at Cryptic, this is a pretty big failure on Cryptic's part.

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You are absolutely right. We are working as hard as we can, but that doesn’t excuse it.

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The reoccurring theme in this thread isn't you folks at Cryptic perpetrated some horrible sin, but that in making a post-mortem of the Bases feature implementation you seem to emphasize it's lack of popularity is more due to the fickleness of players, than the bugginess or kludgeyness of the product. There's several prominent functional design flaws and bugs with Bases that have yet to be fixed, in addition to some conceptual flaws. To the company's credit, you have begun to address them, but the finish line is not just around the corner.

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We(Cryptic) assumed a certain value to bases which clearly doesn’t match up with players’ perceptions. We assumed that customizability, some gameplay features, layout control, etc. would be considered worth X, but players think it’s X-Y. That means WE were wrong. No fickleness involved, just something we didn’t identify well.

But it shows human behavior (and this was the point of my talk): people LOVE individuality. They’re willing to express it. But they won’t consider (in game) it worth a lot of time/effort to create a space that’s customized for group identity. Clearly, people don’t mind group identity (hence, super group costumes) and they love their own personal costume creation.

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A point well made. Jack's comparison of bases to costumes is wildly off because I control my costume. I help pay for my base, yet none of it is my creation.

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Yet a Super Group costume isn’t your creation, either. And yet people wear them. The counterpoint is, of course, that a Super Group costume is in addition to one’s normal costume, not instead of. There’s no such personal property in the base. We thought (on paper) that the “personal items” would do the trick, but it isn’t really the same thing, is it?

I want to stess this:

We are NOT working on a Greek mythology game. Or an ancient history game. Just want to kill that rumour!

I think there's some misinterpretation here - or my speech wasn't clear.

Let's take a look at costume creation. It's been embraced beyond belief by players...we have in game costume contests and events organized by you the players...Some say it's the best part of the game. The single most requested item in CoH is to make the costume creator standalone...

Intestingly, costumes have no gameplay value. They don't boost damage. They don't boost resistance. They don't boost defense. They're only for show.

Now, let's take a look at bases. Take away the teleporters, take away anything game related.

As just a resource for expressing something unique, base creation is on par tech wise with costume creation. Admittedly, there's not quite the same amount of textures, colors, etc., but there's still a lot of versatility. And the layout possibilities are endless.

But what's clear from this thread - and from many, many posts - is that bases are "too expensive". To me, that's interesting (as it is to the Serious Games crowd). Costume changes come with a minimal cost that no one really complains about, but we complain about the costs of bases. Evidently, the costs exceed the perceived value of creating one's own HQ (btw, I confess that many other games have the notion of personal property, but aside from Second Life, I don't think they offer as much customizability as our bases).

Let's turn to the idea of an architect. We foresaw that some people would feel alienated if they weren't the architect. That's why some things (Personal Items) can be "crafted" by individuals and placed in the base. But even if there's an architect: many super groups have a member who designed a single costume which all then use. In other words, they're more than willing to accept someone else's opinion in the group identity for their avatar appearance. Again, the primary difference is cost (I think).

That's what the point of the talk was. I completely agree with many of the suggestions raised in the Base Construction forum, as well as one's mentioned here, would improve Bases to some degree or another. Posi and I go through them at length; really, it's just a question of time & resources. Some things would take astronomically long to do - or perhaps there's something else even more requested or popular.

I didn't reread the transcript, though I do remember the interview distinctly...but here's my take on bases:

They give players their own property...not exactly new ground for MMP's...however, they do offer an unprecedented level of customization.

Clearly, that customization, as well as the several gameplay benefits that the base provides hasn't been perceived to be worth the cost (i.e. Prestige/time played)...hence, Posi and several others (including myself) have taken a spin at making bases more accessible at an earlier stage.

It isn't the popularity of bases so much as the fact that our programming & art team did a phenomenal job of allowing players to generate their own lairs. Maybe not enough players have experienced this content to comment on it, though hopefully Posi's changes will help.