NCsoft is NOT our enemy
By
Acroyear2,
Posted on: 2012-09-04 10:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I read through this link earlier today as was provided in another thread. The guy displays a definite downward trend, but what I failed to see on the report is any indication that the expenses are higher than income. Is it a net loss or no?|
Originally Posted by LittleDavid
Did we ever find out how much revenue City of Heroes + Paragon Studios brings in after expenses, if any? I know CoH was still bringing in several million bucks. All the expenses incurred from supporting the studio and the game couldn't be more than that, could it?
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Unfortunately, the UnSub guy doesn't say, but it is safer to presume a yes to the Net loss than otherwise. There are a lot of assumptions that can be made and it is mostly futile to indulge in them too much. The end result has not changed:
They killed CoH/V
They did it abruptly and with little notice.
The plus side are reports they are talking to Paragon Studios and that they are helping the now unemployed in finding new employment (unless I read that wrong).
Maybe if Paragon Studios relocated to a less expensive area of the USA instead of being In California and near San Francisco they could lower their operating costs and further demonstrate to NCSoft that it is a viable product. Then again, if the employees of Paragon Studios bought homes in California between 2002 and 2008, they may have serious issues selling them without going in the red personally.
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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lol... quite true. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Ya know what else? I'm gonna choice to make sure that I proofread anything else I post tonight because choicing otherwise sounds like a bad idea.
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CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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In the 80s, you would have been essentially saying that the people who terminated Paragon Studios were totally bitchin'. You'd be buggin'. I'm not down with that. Them's hozers.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Ya know what else? I'm gonna choice to make sure that I proofread anything else I post tonight because choicing otherwise sounds like a bad idea.
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That's the same chart I saw before from the Investor's Report, yeah. Revenue is strictly the money that's coming in, not the net gain after expenses. Without knowing what the expenses are, we can't say for sure if City of Heroes was operating at a loss.
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Originally Posted by CatMan
I read through this link earlier today as was provided in another thread. The guy displays a definite downward trend, but what I failed to see on the report is any indication that the expenses are higher than income. Is it a net loss or no?
Unfortunately, the UnSub guy doesn't say, but it is safer to presume a yes to the Net loss than otherwise. |
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Quite true|
Originally Posted by LittleDavid
That's the same chart I saw before from the Investor's Report, yeah. Revenue is strictly the money that's coming in, not the net gain after expenses. Without knowing what the expenses are, we can't say for sure if City of Heroes was operating at a loss.
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There is a link to the NCSoft global earnings. What is interesting are the sales figures by region followed by game. North America as a sales region is pathetic - Europe more so. CoH/V and GW1 are at the bottom of the sales pool. Overall, if you like betting, the odds are against us in seeing NCSoft change their minds. I am actually surprised they continue to bother with a western market given how weak it is.
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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Originally Posted by Leandro
When the game closes, I am really going to miss Arcana's posts.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
Agree.
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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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I didn't say you weren't trying to help. I said that an overtly hostile attitude towards NCSoft could wind up having you **** in someone else's cornflakes. That, in and of itself would NOT help.|
Originally Posted by mercykilling
Totally left out the part where I said I have done -everything- suggested so far to help save this game. Way to go. I've even printed flyers with the site addresses for the petition and titan network's plea and the call to boycott NCSoft products and handed them out at PAX in Seattle recently.
So...do NOT accuse me of not trying to help. |
If you wanna be angry, fine. Just know where to draw the line.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Pre-ZACTLY!
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Greed runs the world. Don't like it? Quit buying ****.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
*snip*
A corporation, as you state, is a legal concept. It was a person or group of persons that choice to lay off everyone at Paragon and kill this game. I see no reason to continue supporting that person or those people financially. |
Actually Bill....wrong. Here, read this.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...dered-a-person
Corporations twist law so that it favors them to be considered individuals when it suits them. NCSoft is a person. That person is the CEO. I hate NCSoft for doing this underhanded move.
Quite a few people paid subscriptions for the whole year, and to date...nobody has received word on their money and what will be done about it. Quite a few people spent money on points to stock up for the new issue release and powers and such. That's gone now. No word of refund forthcoming.
Granted, all this is a "yet" caveat...as NCSoft might very well release to the aforementioned people what they intend to do about this, but..so far?
Diddly and squat. Or, as Bruce Campbell said in Army of Darkness, "Brother...right now you're in charge of Jack and S*H*I*T*. And Jack's left town."
That's wrong. Very much so.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
I didn't say you weren't trying to help. I said that an overtly hostile attitude towards NCSoft could wind up having you **** in someone else's cornflakes. That, in and of itself would NOT help.
If you wanna be angry, fine. Just know where to draw the line. |
So, in order to "help", I need to stifle my first amendment right to free speech. Not happening. I /will/ express my displeasure with what's been done. Just as you're free to tear down what I say. Or try. End of the day comes, and I'm looking in the mirror, I still feel good about the guy looking back. I can say I've done everything I can to help, /AND/ have voiced my honest opinion about it all rather than cowtow and buttlick for popular opinion.
That last sentence is NOT implying that you do, Hyper. It is however, saying that it does happen in these forums.
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No one is saying you can't say what you want. They're just saying it's not constructive. They're saying that you're running the risk of messing up the deals people are trying to get done to save the game.|
Originally Posted by mercykilling
So, in order to "help", I need to stifle my first amendment right to free speech. Not happening. I /will/ express my displeasure with what's been done. Just as you're free to tear down what I say. Or try. End of the day comes, and I'm looking in the mirror, I still feel good about the guy looking back. I can say I've done everything I can to help, /AND/ have voiced my honest opinion about it all rather than cowtow and buttlick for popular opinion.
That last sentence is NOT implying that you do, Hyper. It is however, saying that it does happen in these forums. |
Now I realize that this is pretty abstract. Here's a more concrete example. Because of the attempt to boycott ArenaNet, I went from "maybe I'll pick up GW2 in a couple of months" to spending $260 on it in the past week. Because of the irrational hate poisining the community, I went from being willing to monetarily support an attempt to retain the game to having no interest in doing so whatsoever.
You're probably thinking that no one will miss my money. You're probably right, although I did spend over two grand on Kickstarters last month. I'm just one person, so even that isn't a big deal. Piss off enough people like me and that's the ballgame.
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Sometimes, yes. Everyone has to decide for themselves how much their desire for free expression overrides their desire for some end result that speech may act counter to.|
Originally Posted by mercykilling
So, in order to "help", I need to stifle my first amendment right to free speech.
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It has nothing to do with rights. Separate from the technicality that the constitutional right to free speech is legally inapplicable here, the right to speak our minds does not compel everyone to exercise it in an unlimited fashion in order to validate it. We still have to decide if our speech acts within our best interests and act accordingly.
Incidentally, there is no right to free speech in the US Constitution. The first amendment stipulates the government itself cannot restrict free expression. It does not say we have a right to free expression, as it does not prevent non-government entities from restricting expression.
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With all respect for what you are trying to do Tony. I think this situation is more like how Brutus was one of backstabbers of Caesar and when Caesar saw him saying "You too? Brutus" Sorry but all I will give to NCSoft is trying Wildstar when it is launched. Trying is keyword in here and that is only because game looks both interesting and different enough to make my wondering overwhelm my anger.
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Minor quibble. Villains didn't launch in the face of Chuck Norris. They didn't even launch in the face of Mr. T, who was the first celebrity endorsement ad. (Mr. T was 2007, with the first wave Verne Troyer and William Shatner. Chuck Norris was 2011, in the pre-LK wave of celeb ads.) |
Originally Posted by TonyV
NCsoft was now fighting frickin' Chuck Norris. Who the hell wants to fight Chuck Norris? The answer: NCsoft.
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That's not to say that WoW wasn't a huge juggernaut that had way more mainstream exposure than any MMO before or since. It was just a slightly smaller juggernaut in 2005.
Now, Villains did launch in the face of Chuck Norris Facts taking over and displacing the original Vin Diesel facts in late 2005. From WoW launch until later in 2005, Barrens chat was filled with Vin Diesel fact jokes. The Norris jokes were a spin off of the same site that started them, but rapidly took prominence. Maybe because of Conan O'Brien. (Or maybe because they seem to fit Norris better anyway. Diesel has always come off as a bit more modest and doesn't push the macho image in real life as much.)
Back on topic: I do think the original post makes a great point about all of the support that NCSoft has given CoH over the years, but something has changed. NCSoft is not a monolithic entity. People change. Apparently, the current crop of people are the sort who will lay off an entire company with no notice. Right at back to school time. Just a few months before the holiday season. Not to mention the destruction of the community the prior NCSoft helped foster. The act goes against their own company motto, which I'm going to assume was written by the first set of guys.
If they reverse their decision, or at least are open to some alternate solution such as sale to another company, then that may mitigate the damage to their reputation (for me, anyway) somewhat. I personally won't trust them enough to invest in any of their older games. When DDO went free to play, I supported them with a lot of cash shop purchases, because they were proving themselves to be trustworthy, and seemed intent on keeping the game running and improving it. NCSoft seemed to be on the same track for the last year or so, and I was excited about all the changes. But this 360 has done a serious amount of harm to their relationship with the fans.
In short, I'm not enraged by their decision, but I will be cautious in dealing with NCSoft going forward.
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Please do your fellow Americans all a favor and stop flaunting your constitutional ignorance. It's as embarassing as an American that can't find Canada on a map or one that thinks Alaska is an island.
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Originally Posted by mercykilling
So, in order to "help", I need to stifle my first amendment right to free speech.
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To quote Liam Neeson in "Batman Begins":
"If someone stands in the way of true justice, simply walk up behind them, and stab them in the heart.
You pay to play. Having fun is ok. Kill Skuls or kill Crey. Hunt at night or in the day. Black or white or shades of grey. Play it your way. We have no say.
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What the goat said.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
If a dog that has previously been pleasant and friendly suddenly starts growling and biting, my attitude toward that dog will immediately change.
I will still have my memories of the dog when it was more amenable, but my attitude toward it will be driven by current behavior, not nostalgia. The past is gone, and NCSoft are presently destroying my online home. If they want my good opinion they must radically revise their current behavior. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I'm sure you meant 180 and not 360. |
Originally Posted by Sureshot_Liberty
But this 360 has done a serious amount of harm to their relationship with the fans.
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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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It was 360 but in 3D :P
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Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
I'm sure you meant 180 and not 360.
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I already commented earlier in this thread, but the situation has gotten worse. Here it is, more than a week after the fact, and NC Soft has yet to deliver the promised announcements about refunds.
Four days ago, I thought they handled it badly. In the time since then, my opinion on how they handled it and continue to handle it has only gotten worse. We should have been informed about refunds on the 31st, or, failing that, on the following Monday (or Tuesday, if it turns out that Korea actually celebrates Labor Day) at the absolute latest. Instead, here it is, more than a week later, and nothing. Their Support e-mail is just giving out canned replies, they're apparently ignoring Zwillinger's requests for information, and my opinion of them continues to get worse and worse.
Not my enemy? Maybe, but they're certainly not going out of their way to win any Friendship awards.
The only thing that would improve them in my eyes right now is announcing that they're holding off on giving out refund information because they're having second thoughts on shutting down the game after all, and re-hiring everyone from Paragon back, and development on I24 resumes next week, and here's some free Paragon points to everyone - VIP, Premium, and Free - as an apology, and they'll instead save money by firing the guy who suggested shutting the game down in the first place.
Wishful thinking, I know.
Still a little angry. 
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Knowing when to reign in your temper-tantrums because they're not helping is NOT "stifling your first amendment right to free speech". It's using that right responsibly. Go crack open a ******* civics book before embarrassing yourself like that again.
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Originally Posted by mercykilling
So, in order to "help", I need to stifle my first amendment right to free speech.
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Virtue Server
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Well, it's quite common for people to confuse the "right to free speech" with "the right to act like an idiot". You have both rights, but they are not both productive.
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Originally Posted by mercykilling
So, in order to "help", I need to stifle my first amendment right to free speech. Not happening.
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From my recollection NCSoft has promised no timeline on when they will have a refund announcement. The assumption was that they will get a plan together in a few weeks. Considering both the global corporate NCSoft website as well as the NA NCSoft games site still list CoH as a current game in the stable makes it seem more like it was a snap last minute decision (or someone remembered at the last minute and called Paragon to drop the hammer) rather than a coordinated effort with the best face they could put on it.
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Anyway, I'll go along with a lot of the other responses here: The fact that you drove me to the bar and bought me a couple drinks does not make you not a jackass for sucker punching me out of the blue. ( Edit: What? Where'd you think I was going with that? >.> )
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NC Soft better thank you sir, your post may well get me to give GW2 the chance I was plotting on before this gut wrenching news. However NC Soft you would be wise to not forsake us our game entirely and give deep consideration to seeking out a worthy caretaker for our world and secure both the respect of your current fans and their desire to give support to future games you release.
As was said you once took a chance with CoH and garnered a strong enough community in the shadow of the giant that was WoW. It payed off, and it only did that because of the players now feeling such a deep sense of loss. A game does indeed have to end, but this is not yet that time.