NCsoft is NOT our enemy
By
Acroyear2,
Posted on: 2012-09-04 10:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I thought that Paragon Studios were the ones responsible for the Market place and *not* NCsoft *shrugs* Seeing as it was Paragon Studio's doing the work, why would NCsoft try to force Paragon Studios to ship it outside?|
Originally Posted by seebs
1. They are spectacularly incompetent from a business standpoint. Paragon Market. They paid someone money for that. Perhaps more stunningly, they hired someone who could produce a thing like that. This testifies to a process which bears roughly the same relationship to due diligence that a cat macro does to an ecologically stable population of lions. And this was for something that was absolutely essential to a business plan.
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| 2. They are spectacularly incompetent as MMO administrators. Compare the multiple-days server hardware shuffling ncsoft did for CoH to the way Rift or TSW handle hardware changes. Look at the six weeks of additional monkey farms because ncsoft decided not to permit ANY changes whatsoever because they wanted a thing shipped on a given deadline. |
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| 3. They are erratic and not-at-all transparent. I really value transparency; one of the reasons I am such a huge Rift fanboy is Trion coming out and saying "here's what we were trying to do, here's how it failed, here's how we're making it up to you, here's what we've learned and will change in future efforts". More than once. Ncsoft gives terse weasel-worded statements that are probably false. |
But beyond that? What information have they withheld from us that should have been public? I am sure that there is an incident out there, but i honestly cannot remember what it is.
Well, yeah. A change in executives and upper level management, or heck, a change in who's on the board of investors can and will affect how a company acts.
Case in point, Cartoon Network. Back when that bomb scare over an Aqua Teen Hunger Force ad happened, the CEO quit and was replaced by someone who absolutely did not like cartoons and has tried repeatedly over the years to change the channel into something oriented toward live television.
People were really angry about that. Sure, there's people who like and defend the live action shows that got the green light, but a lot of people see it as a betrayal of the network's purpose, and of any of the shows and programs that got cancelled to make room for these new live-action shows.
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Like Nexon, you mean? (ohsnaphedidnotjustgothere)
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Originally Posted by LittleDavid
Well, yeah. A change in executives and upper level management, or heck, a change in who's on the board of investors can and will affect how a company acts.
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"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
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Quite a good example of a dumb thing that makes no logical sense whatsoever. If you don't like cartoons, why on Earth would you accept a job to run a network that shows nothing but cartoons? Would Lee Iacocca walk into the main offices of Revlon, clap his hands together and say, "OK! From now on we're making pinball machines!"?
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Originally Posted by LittleDavid
Case in point, Cartoon Network. Back when that bomb scare over an Aqua Teen Hunger Force ad happened, the CEO quit and was replaced by someone who absolutely did not like cartoons and has tried repeatedly over the years to change the channel into something oriented toward live television.
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There is no "getting even." There is only yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
I think a short-term, organized boycott of the company's products will help us in the latter two of those.
...although on a more personal level, if I find myself playing a game NCSoft or Nexon produced sometime down the road, I think I'll let it lapse every November. Random noise, to the market.
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Because it's a job and it pays well |
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Quite a good example of a dumb thing that makes no logical sense whatsoever. If you don't like cartoons, why on Earth would you accept a job to run a network that shows nothing but cartoons? Would Lee Iacocca walk into the main offices of Revlon, clap his hands together and say, "OK! From now on we're making pinball machines!"?
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Well then, I had no idea that huge mega corporations were run about as well as the local McDonald's. Buuut, maybe I should have. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Because it's a job and it pays well
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Don't knock your local McDonald's.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Well then, I had no idea that huge mega corporations were run about as well as the local McDonald's. Buuut, maybe I should have.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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$50.00 I don't give them is $50.00 less in their coffers. They won't get that $50.00 from someone else. It's gone. Period. Someone else is willing to spend $50.00? That's fine. That's another $50.00. That doesn't change the fact that if I ALSO spent $50.00, they'd then have $100.00 instead of $50.00.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
Not at all. I believe the difference lies here: I don't for a second think that somewhere in NCSoft HQ there is some mustache-twirling executive gleefully cackling about how he's sticking it to the CoH community. However, we have multiple instances of users actively wishing harm on NCSoft.
If you've lost trust in NCSoft, that's fine. If you don't want to buy NCSoft products in the future, that's also fine (although you should have a realistic appraisal of how much difference that is likely to make for NCSoft. |
Yes, I don't expect it to have a big impact on them. But it's less money than they'd have otherwise. And believe it or not, if enough people stop giving them money for whatever reason, that is noticeable. That's the point of a boycott.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
So let me ask this, and I really want serious answers because I'm in the midst of writing releases and communications: What if NCsoft agrees to let us or someone else purchase the IP and software?
Given that NCsoft wants to focus on other efforts, how would you, the City of Heroes community, feel if they came out and said something to the effect of, "Unfortunately, City of Heroes isn't part of our future, but we understand that you still want it to be part of yours," and opened the door for the game assets to be given or sold to someone else? |
And until such a time, that is also the price I'm paying.
I was planning to buy Guild Wars 2 so that I could join up with a couple of friends and have fun. I had no particular interest in the game one way or another, but I was willing to give it a chance. Now, I am unwilling to make that purchase, unwilling to join my friends and probably enjoy myself a little more. It saves me money, but it costs me networking and social enjoyment.
When NCSoft proves to me that it is not being unreasonable, I will grudgingly tolerate them enough to give them one more game purchase, an give them a chance to improve my opinion of them somewhere down the line. I will not do so happily, nor will I be engaging in any microtransactions for the foreseeable future. But I will give them that chance.
I am well aware that my meager amount of money will make very little difference in anyone's bottom line one way or another. But is is MY MONEY, and what I do with it is important to me.
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And if keeping you in their good graces cost $100.00?|
Originally Posted by JChaos
$50.00 I don't give them is $50.00 less in their coffers. They won't get that $50.00 from someone else. It's gone. Period. Someone else is willing to spend $50.00? That's fine. That's another $50.00. That doesn't change the fact that if I ALSO spent $50.00, they'd then have $100.00 instead of $50.00.
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How much would they have in their coffers then?
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Sorry Tony, but I disagree.
Sure, NCSoft have done a lot for us; but last Friday, our good buddy snuck up behind us, and stabbed us in the back. |
TonyV and Zombie Man have made the most sense of this so far. The Elephant in the Room isn't NCSoft. It's not another game. It's Nexxon.
What is their role in this. They take over a big slice of the NCSoft and CoH gets axed. Nexxon are into the mobile and social markets. As the largest single shareholder there, with NCSoft not doing so well they may well be pulling a lot of strings.
The good news is, if a credible offer for the IP of CoH comes in, the board of NCSoft is legally obliged to give it serious consideration. And in one respect that fact that revenue seems to have fallen year on year on the game plays into our hands becaue ti would take a seriously big miracle to make it a challenger to any of NCSoft's current titles. Thus selling the IP is low risk.
Thelonious Monk
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So you're saying it's more expensive to be nice to people.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
And if keeping you in their good graces cost $100.00?
How much would they have in their coffers then? |
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What if it cost them... one MILLION dollars?|
Originally Posted by Brillig
And if keeping you in their good graces cost $100.00?
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Or seven dollars?
Or eighty-ninety-gajillion?
Or $0.06?
Oh man. There are *so many numbers.*
Here's a video I once shared with a customer service team! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Wd-Q3F8KM
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Incomplete analogy. |
Originally Posted by Brillig
And if keeping you in their good graces cost $100.00?
How much would they have in their coffers then? |
A good one, mind you, but incomplete on several levels.
Of course, given the full measure of such an analogy would venture into Macro Economics discussions well beyond the scope of this thread, I doubt that we'll ever have a satisfactory discussion on the fact.
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See signature.
4 subs x $15/mo x 12 months = $720
Approximately $240/yr in store purchases
That's nearly $1000 they're not getting from me. Let's say half the people who signed the signature only had monthly subs and bought nothing from the store. That probably evens out those who had subs, those who had subs and spent extra, and those who were purely ftp. Those people probably will never buy NCSoft again. They're informed customers and angry.
15,000 x $15 = $225,000
Now we're talking real money.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
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My experience with big corporations, is they are infact, ran just about as well as the local McDonalds.|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Well then, I had no idea that huge mega corporations were run about as well as the local McDonald's. Buuut, maybe I should have.
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The difference is in how much money you're playing with.
People are people.
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Well the NCSoft drive-thru just removed a local favorite from their menu. We're gonna raise all kinds of hell until they bring it back. And if they don't, we ain't eating there anymore.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
My experience with big corporations, is they are infact, ran just about as well as the local McDonalds.
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Errr, off topic, but your BoycottOwl boycott seems to be improperly formatted. The demands you listed are demands you're giving to your boycotters, not to the company to get them to end the boycott.
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Originally Posted by Steele_Magnolia
See signature.
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I wouldn't mind McDonalds removing Chicken McNuggets from the menu if they didn't also say the reason was that they were going to make chickens extinct.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Well the NCSoft drive-thru just removed a local favorite from their menu.
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I'm with the others on this who have decided to boycott NCSoft.
A friend of mine said that if people boycott Guild Wars 2, that in effect we are hurting the studio who makes it (who apparently is not as tightly tied to NCSoft as Paragon Studios was). And that GW2 is a fantastic game and doesn't deserve
any hate.
I understand this. I'm sure GW2 is a fine and wonderful game and it is sad if the studio behind them (whose name escapes me right at this moment) were to be hurt by loss of sales etc just like Paragon Studios. In fact I was beginning to think of trying it out due to the behest of the same friend, before last Friday. (So I'm in the same situation as JChaos.)
But I cannot in good conscience support NCSoft in ANY WAY whatsoever at this time. They do NOT get ANY MORE OF MY MONEY unless and until they reverse their decision to close City of Heroes. I would rather DIE at this moment then do that.
And I don't care if it's Nexxon pulling their strings. They COULD have Killed the REAL Money loser, Aion. But they didn't.
I'm sorry to the fine people who make Guild Wars 2. But you lie down with dogs, you get fleas.
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Except they are already willing to write you off, and every subscriber currently in the game. So you're not really costing them anything they haven't already accepted.
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Originally Posted by Steele_Magnolia
See signature.
4 subs x $15/mo x 12 months = $720 Approximately $240/yr in store purchases That's nearly $1000 they're not getting from me. Let's say half the people who signed the signature only had monthly subs and bought nothing from the store. That probably evens out those who had subs, those who had subs and spent extra, and those who were purely ftp. Those people probably will never buy NCSoft again. They're informed customers and angry. 15,000 x $15 = $225,000 Now we're talking real money. |
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I've never done a boycott before, hence the mistake. I wish I could edit the boycott page but it doesn't seem that I can.
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Originally Posted by JChaos
Errr, off topic, but your BoycottOwl boycott seems to be improperly formatted. The demands you listed are demands you're giving to your boycotters, not to the company to get them to end the boycott.
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Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
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You mean, kill off one of their cash cows? Sure, it had a bad quarter, but until we see the next quarter, it is hard to see if it is just a one quarter blip.|
Originally Posted by Atlantea
And I don't care if it's Nexxon pulling their strings. They COULD have Killed the REAL Money loser, Aion. But they didn't.
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And to be honest, would you *honestly* kill off a title that was still bringing in a fair chunk of change, and would more than likely reduce your profits permanently if it wasn't there?
Think about it, if it *wasnt* for Aion, they would have been instead of $6million in the red, they would have instead been quite possibly -$40million in the red (or there abouts).
And there is *no way in hell* that CoX could cover that kind of loss (although the release of GW2 would definately help with the figures next quarter).
To be honest, Lineage 2 would have been a better title to axe, although that only brought in roughly $16million last quarter.
One thing i just noticed though... the increase in Lineage revenue is fairly close to the *decrease* in Aion revenue (give or take roughly $1million)
It seems to me. That we need a few things to save this game.
1. NCSoft has to be willing to Release/Sell the Franchise.
2. Someone has to have the cashbacking to buy it.
3. New Server space needs to be found and acquired - more cash.
4. For the game to continue as is, a maintenance team is needed
5. for the game to continue with improvements a developement team is needed.
6. for the game to survive it has to bring in the income to pay back the investor, and pay its bills (server and crew)
I beleive these are the concepts we need to address. Any discussion that does not move any of these forward is not helping, but taking up time for everyone else to have to read to see if there is anything valuable in it.
I would like positive affirmation from somebody that there are discussions goin on about NCSoft selling the franchise.
I would like to see positive reports that funding is being persued. (Investors, Kickstarter, Steam, Blizzard)
Where would I go to find these things?
I agree that NCSoft is not our enemy, however I do not think they are our best buddy either. There has to a working relationship in this.
Flames and thrashing about do not help find the pertinent information I need to keep my own hopes up.
"It is not how many times you fall down that counts, it is how many times you get back up" -- Manticore
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Like any company, they are subject to change even at the highest levels of hierarchy and so any claim to NEVER support that company again are... well... unwise, at best. I could mention the complete turnaround that Valve managed - everybody loves them, but who remembers how much everyone hated them on the release of Half Life 2 with the required online connection? How many people said they'd never support Valve again, and how many have gone and played games like Team Fortress and Left 4 Dead since?
The company I currently work for have also managed a turnaround this year and been able to give all staff a substantial rise AND a bonus, where we had none for the 2 years previous. A massive change in staff treatment, all because one CEO (who was, by the way, ridiculously selfish) was replaced.
I will temper this counter-argument with this admission, though - while I can't say I will never buy another NCSoft game again, it will be AT LEAST a couple of years before I do, for the same trust issues that many others are bringing up. I also note that I have absolutely NO interest in any of their other MMOs - so if they want to alienate the Western market, they're going about it the right way.
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