NCsoft is NOT our enemy
TonyV, I have to agree with the majority: don't try and make a corporation look like the good guys here. They're not.
But then I'm probably on the other side of the fence here too. Why boycott NCsoft? Because they made a business decision that directly affected you? Meh. Happens every day. Happens every second. A corporate decision will affect someone somewhere in a negative way...Let's boycott Cryptic because they were in direct competition with CoH...or Activision because WoW sucks up all the market for MMOs.
Corporations are collectively cut-throat, at least the largely successful ones. That's just the nature of business. You can go through the history of pretty much any big business and there's going to be a dark side. Business is corporations is money is greed. It's inescapable.
The way I see it, if you yourself don't think of your money as an investment in a product, you're shortselling yourself. Support the product that you think deserves money rather than believing you're lining the pockets of some evil CEO. Because if you don't, you'll never get the product you deserve for the price you're willing to pay.
Dunno about you, but I'm buying what games I find fun and innovative because I'm supporting the artists, writers, designers, programmers, animators, musicians, etc who make the game in hopes the future will be just as fun and innovative. Boycotts only stifle advancement and blinds oneself with their own emotions. Similarly, if Sony supported the continuation of CoH, those boycotting Sony simply expresses the sentiment that 'CoH is still not worth my soul'.
Well dignity and money are two seperate things in this world. Either you want the product that you want or you should be dumping it all into charities for people that don't have it.
/cue hyperbole of NCsoft killing 50 puppies per min to run Aion or something.
Yeah, well I'm sure Walmart also runs on the eternal souls of dead orphans...I doubt those orphans need their souls anyway now that they're dead...
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
I only gave NCSoft and Paragon Studios somewhere around $50 since this time last year. There were reasons for that decision that I won't go into now but the point I'm left pondering is did I, and other players that quit paying for reasons of their own, help cause this?
The sad truth is: yes. So who is at fault for the downfall of this game now?
NCSoft for pulling the trigger?
The devs for making decisions that caused players to quit?
The players for quitting?
I don't eat Chick-Fil-A because I've always hated the politics of the company and their food sucks.
I don't give money to antivirus software providers because there are free products on the market that work just as well.
Is NCSoft the villain in this story? Sure. But as others have stated there are a lot of villainous companies out there.
There's a bunch of people now worried about where their next paycheck is coming from and THAT sucks. THEY are the ones I hold real concern for. But NCSoft is not the only cause of this game's downfall.
Be well, people of CoH.
![](http://pages.suddenlink.net/dmweb/sig1.jpg)
So let me ask this, and I really want serious answers because I'm in the midst of writing releases and communications: What if NCsoft agrees to let us or someone else purchase the IP and software?
Given that NCsoft wants to focus on other efforts, how would you, the City of Heroes community, feel if they came out and said something to the effect of, "Unfortunately, City of Heroes isn't part of our future, but we understand that you still want it to be part of yours," and opened the door for the game assets to be given or sold to someone else? |
total kick to the gut
![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
So let me ask this, and I really want serious answers because I'm in the midst of writing releases and communications: What if NCsoft agrees to let us or someone else purchase the IP and software?
Given that NCsoft wants to focus on other efforts, how would you, the City of Heroes community, feel if they came out and said something to the effect of, "Unfortunately, City of Heroes isn't part of our future, but we understand that you still want it to be part of yours," and opened the door for the game assets to be given or sold to someone else? |
The way I look at it, if it comes to us to 'save' CoH, I'll have to invest most likely more than I would normally. That is, if I pay $15 a month + maybe $50 every 3 months in extra points, that's like $24 a month or something...If it came to saving CoH, how much would I need to pay to make the endeavor a success?
I probably would help(if it were a reasonable amount...I'm not dropping more than $300 as I have bills too) but then I'm looking at a product that will simply exist. Will it grow? What about the devs that made it? Won't they be off making new games? What if I want to support them and their new projects?
At some point, you have to think with both your heart and your head. You have to let go and look to the future. As much as I love CoH, I'm actually awake after so long of keeping my blinders up. There's a world of other experiences out there (Uh, BaBs is doing Neverwinter Nights for Cryptic...I've at least got to try that out if not outright stick there).
Again, we should support the products that we feel deserve it to see any progress otherwise you're not telling the people poofing products into existance what you want to buy. Telling them "Oh, yeah I want a superhero themed MMO...but I'm not buying it from soandso company" only expresses that it's not worth investing in therefore you don't get your superhero themed MMO....or you get one of subpar quality to reflect how worthwhile an investment it is.
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
Look at the type of MMOs that are popular in Korea. Grind. Grind. Grind. Gather materials so you can use them to grind your crafting skills. Buying from the ingame store or other players to get the gear you don't make yourself, in a constant struggle to keep from slipping behind the power curve, having to replace all your gear over and over again as it becomes trash relative to the opponents you face. Most of the world is set up so you need to go out in groups to survive. And PvP is an integral part of the game, with mechanics designed to actively push you out into the PvP areas, where the gank is the only true expression of superiority. NCSoft has brought this style of game to the Western MMO market again and again, and their track record is poor -- Auto Assault flopped, Exteel flopped, Dungeon Runner flopped, Tabula Rasa flopped, Aion's performance is 'disappointing' -- and Guild Wars deliberately took the game in a different direction to try to eliminate grinding.
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Dungeon Runners was *deliberately* a piss take of the Diablo style game.
Exteel: Group team games, along the lines of the current Monday Night COmbat games on steam... but i can see why you thought it was, and out of the 4 games you listed, this is the closest you got.
Auto Assault/Tabula Rasa: Yes, you had quests, but they both tried to be *different* from the standard fare of Eastern/Western style of MMO at that point in time.
To call Dungeon Runners/Auto Assault/Tabula Rasa "asian" style MMO's is a total disservice to the western developers (although if you were referring to the canned version of Tabula Rasa, I would have believed you) who worked on the games.
I don't like NcSoft and never will, however I no how to be formal and respect those up in the chain of command.
However if all our hard work does not pay off and we don't get coh back, they will be my Enemy.
Don't forget thing changes and people do as well, Companies can be saint and then change into the devil. Seem like how NcSoft is right now to me, I will try to be respectful and be formal.
Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.
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Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus
Since Bad_Influence was alleging that he tries to spend money with companies that treat their customers with more sensitivity, I was inviting him to explain why he continued to spend money with NCSoft after they shut down TR.
His assertions don't line up with his actions. |
Second, that is exactly correct: I spent money with a company until their "scorched earth" policies impacted something I care a great deal about.
I am not some corporate do-gooder, riding around on a white horse and only dispersing my cash amongst those companies who remain "politically" correct. To even attempt to do so would be futile in this day and age, and I believe this to be a straw-man argument.
Yes, guilty as charged: I stayed with NCSoft even after they shut down TR. This does not make me a bad person, it makes me a pragmatist. I also think its not worth arguing about. If you think this is a moral failure on my part, that's fine. I play many villains, after all.
![Cool](images/smilies/cool.gif)
So let me ask this, and I really want serious answers because I'm in the midst of writing releases and communications: What if NCsoft agrees to let us or someone else purchase the IP and software?
Given that NCsoft wants to focus on other efforts, how would you, the City of Heroes community, feel if they came out and said something to the effect of, "Unfortunately, City of Heroes isn't part of our future, but we understand that you still want it to be part of yours," and opened the door for the game assets to be given or sold to someone else? |
I hope NCSoft is really thinking about how many eyes are watching them right now, and how many opinions are waiting to be fully formed. I have a feelign they're not, that they think they're in a little corporate bubble of their own..... I sincerely hope I am wrong.
How they handle this will be the dealbreaker. Or maker.
So let me ask this, and I really want serious answers because I'm in the midst of writing releases and communications: What if NCsoft agrees to let us or someone else purchase the IP and software?
Given that NCsoft wants to focus on other efforts, how would you, the City of Heroes community, feel if they came out and said something to the effect of, "Unfortunately, City of Heroes isn't part of our future, but we understand that you still want it to be part of yours," and opened the door for the game assets to be given or sold to someone else? |
"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."
Right now, I believe the best thing I can do for CoH is to support the Titan initiative. The only means I have to do so is lobbing some meager cash at it.
My unfocused rage would only hurt their efforts and thus my interests. Until I know who is to blame I'll merely boycott NCSoft, like many other companies that have no idea I'm doing so (for example, Steam screwed me over on one game back in 2004 and I haven't dealt with them since, though if they pick up CoH, I'd consider that enough atonement).
What if NCsoft agrees to let us or someone else purchase the IP and software? |
In short, please keep your nonsense to yourself. Trying to save CoH is one thing - I think it's a pretty hopeless battle, myself - but do shut up about what you clearly don't know or understand. It's insulting to us.
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uhm speak for yourself only plz, any help is welcome help. i love this game and would love to be able to keep it. your negativity doesnt help,,,
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So, people at NCSoft can make a ruthless decision based on cold facts, but when it's the other way around, suddenly people in this community can't make any ruthless decision based on cold facts? Suddenly they're cruel and insensitive? Bien sûr, that makes sense... Wait, no it doesn't, because that's exactly what being an aware consumer is.
OP needs a nap, I guess? 'cause I don't see this thread being very helpful overall. If people want to vent, more power to them (it's been civil, as far as I know). Anybody on this boards only speaks for himself, and is wise enough to make their own decisions.
And to answer the question above, if CoH lives but without the former devs to take care of it, I'm done with the game anyway, because it will be an empty shell of its former self to me (emphasis). And I'd still dont give a dingleberry about NCSoft.
The way I see it, if you yourself don't think of your money as an investment in a product, you're shortselling yourself. Support the product that you think deserves money rather than believing you're lining the pockets of some evil CEO. Because if you don't, you'll never get the product you deserve for the price you're willing to pay.
Dunno about you, but I'm buying what games I find fun and innovative because I'm supporting the artists, writers, designers, programmers, animators, musicians, etc who make the game in hopes the future will be just as fun and innovative. Boycotts only stifle advancement and blinds oneself with their own emotions. Similarly, if Sony supported the continuation of CoH, those boycotting Sony simply expresses the sentiment that 'CoH is still not worth my soul'. Well dignity and money are two seperate things in this world. Either you want the product that you want or you should be dumping it all into charities for people that don't have it. |
I buy the product that I want. I do not want a product derived from abusing workers, which is how I consider NCSoft's treatment of the Paragon Studios staff. Therefore, I do not want any NCSoft product.
I buy products I enjoy. I can not enjoy something that I know that derives from the suffering of others. Therefore, I do not want any NCSoft product.
I buy products I find fun and innovative and support the creators of said products. I am supporting no one if the best gratitude they can get from an employer is a no notice termination and 'Don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out' treatment. I certainly do not support a company who has already treated its best talent that way and shown them the door. I have no trust that they would recognize innovative if it bit them on the ***.
I have money and will spend it how I choose. I choose not to give it to NCSoft. I have dignity and make my own decisions about what charities and how much support I give them. It is not an either/or situation.
I also won't buy blood diamonds. For me any NCSoft product is now effectively a blood diamond.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
TonyV, I have to agree with the majority: don't try and make a corporation look like the good guys here. They're not.
But then I'm probably on the other side of the fence here too. Why boycott NCsoft? Because they made a business decision that directly affected you? Meh. Happens every day. Happens every second. A corporate decision will affect someone somewhere in a negative way...Let's boycott Cryptic because they were in direct competition with CoH...or Activision because WoW sucks up all the market for MMOs. Corporations are collectively cut-throat, at least the largely successful ones. That's just the nature of business. You can go through the history of pretty much any big business and there's going to be a dark side. Business is corporations is money is greed. It's inescapable. The way I see it, if you yourself don't think of your money as an investment in a product, you're shortselling yourself. Support the product that you think deserves money rather than believing you're lining the pockets of some evil CEO. Because if you don't, you'll never get the product you deserve for the price you're willing to pay. Dunno about you, but I'm buying what games I find fun and innovative because I'm supporting the artists, writers, designers, programmers, animators, musicians, etc who make the game in hopes the future will be just as fun and innovative. Boycotts only stifle advancement and blinds oneself with their own emotions. Similarly, if Sony supported the continuation of CoH, those boycotting Sony simply expresses the sentiment that 'CoH is still not worth my soul'. Well dignity and money are two seperate things in this world. Either you want the product that you want or you should be dumping it all into charities for people that don't have it. /cue hyperbole of NCsoft killing 50 puppies per min to run Aion or something. Yeah, well I'm sure Walmart also runs on the eternal souls of dead orphans...I doubt those orphans need their souls anyway now that they're dead... |
No need to boycott, because boycotting is a political goal. Boycott them if they go Chik Fil-A on us. But if you don't trust them to protect their product, that's just good sense as a player. No need to explicitly boycott them.
... to balance this tear in universal fabric: Stalkers are still broken.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
NCSoft can kiss my ***.
Just a coincidence that they announce this just after releasing GW2? No way.
Then they have the nerve to milk customers with a new powerset just a week or so before killing off the game. I wonder how long they've been milking this game knowing they were going to kill it.
Then on top of it all, they're going to sit on the game despite the fact it's profitable (made over 2 million last quarter - if you can't run this game on 2 million a quarter, it's not the game that sucks, it's you, which is probably why ncsoft is falling into the red). Of course other companies are going to make offers on a game that is clearly profitable, and has such a solid fan base, and that can be kept going relatively cheaply - it's a hell of a lot cheaper to maintain a game than create one, and this game is more profitable/active than some games that have come out in the past few years.
But like the rest of the games they kill, they'll bury this one to drive customers to their other craptastic games, you know, the ones that put them in the red in the first place.
Of course, the biggest reason they're killing coh is because the game is only useful in the US, and most of this companies business is in asia. Just another lesson on why it's bad to invest in foreign companies, because when the crap hits the fan, the foreign customers get the shaft.
Bottom line is, ncsoft is leaving a ton of loyal customers out in the cold on this one, and it absolutely does not have to. If this game is so trivial to them that it's not worth continuing, then selling it for a profit to another company shouldn't effect their bottom line the other way if it isn't helping them enough to continue supporting it. Then again, perhaps they realize what a lousy company they are, and that if coh was put in the right hands, it might actually grow.
TonyV, I have to agree with the majority: don't try and make a corporation look like the good guys here. They're not.
But then I'm probably on the other side of the fence here too. Why boycott NCsoft? Because they made a business decision that directly affected you? Meh. Happens every day. Happens every second. A corporate decision will affect someone somewhere in a negative way...Let's boycott Cryptic because they were in direct competition with CoH...or Activision because WoW sucks up all the market for MMOs. Corporations are collectively cut-throat, at least the largely successful ones. That's just the nature of business. You can go through the history of pretty much any big business and there's going to be a dark side. Business is corporations is money is greed. It's inescapable. The way I see it, if you yourself don't think of your money as an investment in a product, you're shortselling yourself. Support the product that you think deserves money rather than believing you're lining the pockets of some evil CEO. Because if you don't, you'll never get the product you deserve for the price you're willing to pay. Dunno about you, but I'm buying what games I find fun and innovative because I'm supporting the artists, writers, designers, programmers, animators, musicians, etc who make the game in hopes the future will be just as fun and innovative. Boycotts only stifle advancement and blinds oneself with their own emotions. Similarly, if Sony supported the continuation of CoH, those boycotting Sony simply expresses the sentiment that 'CoH is still not worth my soul'. Well dignity and money are two seperate things in this world. Either you want the product that you want or you should be dumping it all into charities for people that don't have it. /cue hyperbole of NCsoft killing 50 puppies per min to run Aion or something. Yeah, well I'm sure Walmart also runs on the eternal souls of dead orphans...I doubt those orphans need their souls anyway now that they're dead... |
Corporations react to what their customers do. If something they do costs them money, they're a lot less likely to do the same thing in the future.
If you don't like what ncsoft is doing here, then the best way to show them that you don't like how they operate is to stop supporting their products.
I will not invest in anything NCSoft because I do not consider any product they make or will ever make to be worth it.
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I buy the product that I want. I do not want a product derived from abusing workers, which is how I consider NCSoft's treatment of the Paragon Studios staff. Therefore, I do not want any NCSoft product. |
I buy products I enjoy. I can not enjoy something that I know that derives from the suffering of others. Therefore, I do not want any NCSoft product. |
Buck up. Unless you isolate yourself from anything mass-produced, you're likely deriving your products from the suffering of others.
It's one thing to be picky about who you buy your products from and it's another to hold your ideals on a hypocritical soap box just because you feel wronged.
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
If you don't like what ncsoft is doing here, then the best way to show them that you don't like how they operate is to stop supporting their products. |
The state of MMOs is bleak. At some point you have to wonder what you're hurting more, the corporation or your interests.
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
Do you only buy from thrift shops and mom-and-pop stores? Do you run your car on vegetable oil? Do you make all your own shoes or buy your clothes from only professional seamstresses who handcraft all their wares? If not, you support super-stores like Walmart who put mom-and-pop stores out of business. You support oil refineries that barely give two ****s about the environment. Those clothes and shoes were probably made by underpaid kids sweating in factories for long hours. Those hamburgers were probably made from mass-farmed cows whose living conditions are so horrid I couldn't describe it.
Buck up. Unless you isolate yourself from anything mass-produced, you're likely deriving your products from the suffering of others. |
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Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Glad to hear it. I hope others get at least a smile out of it as well. I may be a PITA in many respects but a little laughter is good for everyone right now.
That would allow me to forgive the decision because the game wouldn't be dead. I might have to start all over for my characters but at least I could eventually do everything I currently enjoy doing.
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I'm 110% behind Swellguy on this.
I really do hope you have success, Tony, and I'm not going to sabotage it by attacking NCSoft reps. But I'm not going to be quiet about my disconent, especially since this isn't the first NCSoft MMO shot out from under me.