Avengers shatters all boxoffice opening weekend records.
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Posted on: 2012-05-06 19:10 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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That was also a key factor - although it was also one of the big problems Lucas had in getting it made - it seemed like it was such a totally left field idea for a movie at the point in time.|
Originally Posted by Fista
Let’s be honest. Star Wars is what it is due to a variety of factors not the least of which is the movie it's self. However I firmly believe that a year either way from its release date it wouldn't have had the impact it had/has. The U.S. (world?) was ready for something like Star Wars at that moment. It was the timing of it that put it over the top.
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| Avengers for as good as it is, and I would argue it's better then Star Wars, does not have the fortuitous timing of Star Wars and will not have any where near the cultural impact that the original Star Wars had. |
For example, the Avengers is not actually that different from Daredevil - it's just better than it in every possible way.
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I don't see out side of the SFX that Star Wars had a lot of unique visuals. I mean aside from Vader and light sabers what do you have?
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That was also a key factor - although it was also one of the big problems Lucas had in getting it made - it seemed like it was such a totally left field idea for a movie at the point in time.
Again, a lot of that is down to the unique visuals - the Avengers doesn't give us anything visually new - it just gives us familar visuals in an awesome way - we've seen superheroes doing superheroic things in modern day environments plenty of times before. For example, the Avengers is not actually that different from Daredevil - it's just better than it in every possible way. |
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In what universe does Star Wars have vastly more cultural impact than all of classic Marvel Comicdom? They are both so pervasive that I don't see how you can make that case.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
In which case Lucas still wins by a mile.
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Lucas and his team invented techniques for filming, sound, and visuals that had never been done. You'd have to watch movies from Pre-Star Wars to understand how different the entire movie experience was. The mind-blowing was not simply from a lightsaber.|
Originally Posted by Fista
I don't see out side of the SFX that Star Wars had a lot of unique visuals. I mean aside from Vader and light sabers what do you have?
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Star Wars was probably the most uniquely visceral movie of its time.
The Avengers ratchets up the wow factor when you consider that there really hasn't been an ensemble movie that lived up to the hype and gave each of the main players enough screen time. The X-Men movies were mostly about Wolverine, Jean Grey, and Professor X, while the rest of the team feasted on the scraps. It may not be the quantum leap in technology or visuals that Star Wars was, but there's still plenty of iconic moments and visuals to make it stand out from every superhero movie that came before, for sure, including the previous Marvel Avengers solo movies.
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In the universe in her own mind, because if there's one thing I've learned, it's that she's completely incapable of objectively discussing anything related to Star Wars.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In what universe does Star Wars have vastly more cultural impact than all of classic Marvel Comicdom?
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So what I should have said was that while Star Wars may have had a very large impact on pop culture, its Star Trek that has had the largest impact on the world.
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Originally Posted by Hestis
In the universe in her own mind, because if there's one thing I've learned, it's that she's completely incapable of objectively discussing anything related to Star Wars.
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Agreed. Star Wars inspired legions of people to take up lightsabers and make cultural in-jokes.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
So what I should have said was that while Star Wars may have had a very large impact on pop culture, its Star Trek that has had the largest impact on the world.
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Star Trek inspired people to become engineers, astronauts, and other people who contribute in a positive way to our society.
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Scarface was ok. Not great, just ok. I don't get all the hype over the durned thing.|
Originally Posted by Chrome_Family
fixed that for ya..
Saying best movie of all time is hog wash.. it was a great fun movie that lived up to the hype.. but there have been MANY great movies in the last 75 years to say this is better than Godfather, Titanic, Scarface, or any number of movies is pushing it. |
Titanic, just, no, don't mention that again.
Godfather. I saw it. Was ok.
Personally if I was going to mention movies I thought were great, Shawshank Redemption, The Green Mile, The Last Castle. Those were freaking great movies.
Star Wars came out of nowhere in 1977. It was a dead genre at the time, the studio didn't support it's production and it wasn't until it was screened that the studio knew it had something. I was 15 at the time and the up swell of fandom for that movie was unheard of. Time magazine cover about it's under 40 cast and crew. Merchandising wasn't in the stores until months after the movie came out. Most Star Wars t-shirts were unlicensed knockoffs. I still have a scrapbook I made back then with local newspaper photos of home made R2D2 and little kids dressed as Luke and Leia marching in a 4th of July parade.
On the other hand The Avengers have been around in comic from since before the first Star Wars film, had five reasonably successful prequel movies leading up to it and a full blown Hollywood hype machine starting four months before the movie was released in the US.
As for Battleship, it at least got the attention of The Asylum which made a crude knock off that ran on SyFy Saturday night. I find such films interesting in terms of how to make a big budget summer movie concept on a shoestring budget.
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In the universe where everyone knows what Star Wars is, yet only people with a particular inclination towards American comic-books could name a marvel character?|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In what universe does Star Wars have vastly more cultural impact than all of classic Marvel Comicdom? They are both so pervasive that I don't see how you can make that case.
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I mean, sure, if all you ever do is hang around American comic-book fans, I can see how you'd think this was even a competition.
*tries to recall if SpiderMan is Marvel or DC*
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Swooning girls can do magic for movies, as they generally have more power over their SO's entertainment choice than vice versa. The only good part of Titanic was when DiCaprio sank beneath the waves. I put that movie on the same mental shelf as Dirty Dancing and the Twilight movies.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
Considering that it won eleven academy awards including best picture, is the second highest grossing movie in history, and was number one in the box office for fifteen consecutive weeks? I'd say there are a CRAP LOAD of people who disagree with this opinion. But to each their own.
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This is only partially true, since Marvel comics as a major cultural influence has, up to now, been pretty much limited to the US. In the UK, up till now, "The Avengers" was a guy with a Bowler Hat and Umbrella, and "Iron Man" was an environmental fable by Ted Hughes. The characters which have been iconic in the US for a long time have only just now become icons in the UK.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't think that's a fair comparison because the Avengers is not the beginning of something like the original Star Wars trilogy was. The Avengers is the culmination of something, more comparable to the prequel movies than the original series.
In terms of pop culture influence and creative impact, it would be more proper to compare Lucas and Star Wars with Stan Lee (plus Kirby and Ditko) and 60s Marvel Comics. To say that the Avengers lacks new and unique signatures compared to its components is like saying The Clone Wars just recycles light sabers and droids. The Avengers have been around for 49 years, the Hulk for 50 years. Captain America has been around for 71 years and he just featured in the biggest movie in the world not directed by James Cameron. I'm sure Star Wars will still be around in three decades but if Han Solo features in the biggest blockbuster of 2048, then Star Wars will be able to lay claim to the pop culture longevity represented by (but not exclusively comprised of) the Avengers. |
As for timing, I think it's exactly right for the Avengers, with people looking for escapism and hope in difficult times, and a reminder of the good things about America.
And this is why I think the new Batman film will struggle - not because it's a bad film, but because people don't want depressing movies at this time.
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Look. I was 14 when the damn thing came out. I saw it FOURTY times that summer. Yeah. Forty. My point is that as an adult with out the misty haze of nostalgia I can see the man behind the curtain. And the fact that every one keeps going on about "the visuals" confirms to me, Joe Campbell not withstanding, it’s a pretty weakly told story. Out side of the space battles (and some times not even then) it's ridiculously stiff. Stiffly acted, stiffly directed. Lucas wouldn't know how to move the camera if he was filming in an earth quake. |
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Lucas and his team invented techniques for filming, sound, and visuals that had never been done. You'd have to watch movies from Pre-Star Wars to understand how different the entire movie experience was. The mind-blowing was not simply from a lightsaber.
Star Wars was probably the most uniquely visceral movie of its time. The Avengers ratchets up the wow factor when you consider that there really hasn't been an ensemble movie that lived up to the hype and gave each of the main players enough screen time. The X-Men movies were mostly about Wolverine, Jean Grey, and Professor X, while the rest of the team feasted on the scraps. It may not be the quantum leap in technology or visuals that Star Wars was, but there's still plenty of iconic moments and visuals to make it stand out from every superhero movie that came before, for sure, including the previous Marvel Avengers solo movies. |
While Avengers might not have the unique visuals that Star Wars did, it has some things Star Wars does not. Better dialog, better direction and better acting.
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Umm, you forgot The Rock. I'm extrapolating, of course, from your list of movies that if it takes place in a prison it's automatically great.|
Originally Posted by Forevermore
Personally if I was going to mention movies I thought were great, Shawshank Redemption, The Green Mile, The Last Castle. Those were freaking great movies.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, we need to give Star Wars an additional 14 years before it reaches the longevity of the Avengers.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't think that's a fair comparison because the Avengers is not the beginning of something like the original Star Wars trilogy was. The Avengers is the culmination of something, more comparable to the prequel movies than the original series.
In terms of pop culture influence and creative impact, it would be more proper to compare Lucas and Star Wars with Stan Lee (plus Kirby and Ditko) and 60s Marvel Comics. To say that the Avengers lacks new and unique signatures compared to its components is like saying The Clone Wars just recycles light sabers and droids. The Avengers have been around for 49 years, the Hulk for 50 years. Captain America has been around for 71 years and he just featured in the biggest movie in the world not directed by James Cameron. I'm sure Star Wars will still be around in three decades but if Han Solo features in the biggest blockbuster of 2048, then Star Wars will be able to lay claim to the pop culture longevity represented by (but not exclusively comprised of) the Avengers. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In what universe does Star Wars have vastly more cultural impact than all of classic Marvel Comicdom? They are both so pervasive that I don't see how you can make that case.
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As far as the general public goes the number of people who've seen the Avengers MOVIE is probably easily hundreds (or even thousands) of times greater than the comparatively few comic geeks who even read comics AT ALL much less read the Avengers specifically. As far as any meaningful discussion along these lines goes for most people the comic book version of the Avengers might as well not even exist.
I'm not trying to say that the classic comics don't have a cultural impact. I simply believe your obvious adoration for the long history of comic books is clouding your perceptions of how these things are experienced by society in general vis-a-vis movies. Yes the Avengers movie is based on the Avengers comic books. But that does NOT really mean the full cultural impact of the Avengers -movie- series has been around for 50+ years. Apples and oranges my friend.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
So what I should have said was that while Star Wars may have had a very large impact on pop culture, its Star Trek that has had the largest impact on the world.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Agreed. Star Wars inspired legions of people to take up lightsabers and make cultural in-jokes.
Star Trek inspired people to become engineers, astronauts, and other people who contribute in a positive way to our society. |
In my maind there will never be a question about it.
Star Trek > Star Wars... period.
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Curiously, The Rock is one of Mrs PRAF's all time favourite movies...
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Originally Posted by Magus_Prime
Umm, you forgot The Rock. I'm extrapolating, of course, from your list of movies that if it takes place in a prison it's automatically great.
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Well, it was a good movie!
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Curiously, The Rock is one of Mrs PRAF's all time favourite movies...
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This. Although DiCaprio not being ripped apart by sharks or minced by the propeller was a disappointment.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Swooning girls can do magic for movies, as they generally have more power over their SO's entertainment choice than vice versa. The only good part of Titanic was when DiCaprio sank beneath the waves. I put that movie on the same mental shelf as Dirty Dancing and the Twilight movies.
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If you want to see a good, and far more accurate, movie about the Titanic, watch A Night to Remember.
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Every Star Wars movie (yes, all of them, even the Ewok Adventures once or twice) have been shown on local tv networks many times. I don't remember even a single Star Trek episode ever running here, nor any of the movies.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
While there's no arguing that Star Wars has made its impact in the hearts and minds of countless millions I would have to wholeheartedly agree that Star Trek's impact will always stand head-n-shoulders above it.
In my maind there will never be a question about it. Star Trek > Star Wars... period. |
Heck, I've had more exposure to Space Above And Beyond than I have to anything Star Trek.
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Well I can't really be blamed for you living in a place that has its priorities mixed up about what it shows on TV now can I? |
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
Every Star Wars movie (yes, all of them, even the Ewok Adventures once or twice) have been shown on local tv networks many times. I don't remember even a single Star Trek episode ever running here, nor any of the movies.
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Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
Heck, I've had more exposure to Space Above And Beyond than I have to anything Star Trek.
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and Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize |
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
Considering that it won eleven academy awards including best picture, is the second highest grossing movie in history, and was number one in the box office for fifteen consecutive weeks? I'd say there are a CRAP LOAD of people who disagree with this opinion. But to each their own.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
So how's the weather in Bizarro World these days?
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lulz. he sounded annoyed. Maybe he is envious of the success of the Avengers and not to be involved due his greed and arrogance lol. I mean who HASN'T seen the Avengers yet??? well now we have the answer..|
Edward Norton On Marvel's THE AVENGERS: "It Just Isn't Very Important To Me" During an interview with Hitfix, the man who was all set to reprise the role of Bruce Banner in The Avengers before things went awry is asked if he has seen the movie yet. Check out his response.. Mark is like a brother to me," he said, praising "Avengers" star Mark Ruffalo's commitment to his work overall. "Besides, he's got two kids, and I'm really happy he gets to have this moment with them," he continued. When I asked him if he'd actually seen the film yet, that's when he admitted that he had not, and that it hadn't been a priority. |
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