Avengers shatters all boxoffice opening weekend records.
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Posted on: 2012-05-06 19:10 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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They gave it to Rhianna to sing the love theme from Battleship.
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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver
...speaking of which, where exactly did they spend $200m on Battleship? Did they have to chuck another half-mill at Neeson every take to stop him cracking up laughing over the script?
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I...you...what? Since when is it even debatable that Titanic was a good movie? Did you...even see it? I mean I read your later comment about being 9 when Star Wars originally came out, so I KNOW you aren't a teeny bopper, but still...at LEAST preface something like this with "In my opinion". I realize thats probably understood anyways, but good lord.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Sorry, but Avengers stands up on it's own, to consider it only as a Superhero movie is a major oversight. It's current cultural impact (in the UK) is approaching that of Star Wars in 1977.
And as for Titanic, that's not even a good movie. It's tripe of the highest order that was simply lucky enough to be popular (similar to a certain MMO I can think of). |
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As evidenced by the three movies that you listed, this is a matter of opinion.|
Originally Posted by Chrome_Family
fixed that for ya..
Saying best movie of all time is hog wash.. it was a great fun movie that lived up to the hype.. but there have been MANY great movies in the last 75 years to say this is better than Godfather, Titanic, Scarface, or any number of movies is pushing it. |
Let someone walk away and declare this the best movie. That's what a great experience should do... whether it is true or not... first off, is entirely subjective, but, secondly, really doesn't matter... Awesome experiences may sometimes induce grandiose exclamations!
And I encourage that!
@Zethustra
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For the record I also had the unique privilege of being able to see (and remember) every Star Wars movie on its original opening day in the theater. One of the few advantages of being old I guess. |
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
As someone who was 9 in 1977, and who teaches several 8-10 years olds now, I'm ideally placed to observe the similarities. And the initial success of Star Wars was not initially due to the pseudo-religious elements. Most of that came with the later movies. See, for example, the very first EU novels, The Han Solo adventures, have no jedi or mysticism in them at all.
Now, the effect will probably be greater in the UK, where superhero comics have previously been more of a minority interest. Perhaps more like: "You sunk my Beano!" |
Again I'll grant you that the Avengers movies are very good and once it's all said and done they'll probably be able to say that as a complete franchise it made billions of dollars. Still not going to declare it on par with Star Wars, sorry.
Let's give Avengers another 30+ years when we're arguing about Loki ragdolling Hulk in the latest director's cut before we grant it that status shall we?
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Actually, we need to give Star Wars an additional 14 years before it reaches the longevity of the Avengers.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Again I'll grant you that the Avengers movies are very good and once it's all said and done they'll probably be able to say that as a complete franchise it made billions of dollars. Still not going to declare it on par with Star Wars, sorry.
Let's give Avengers another 30+ years when we're arguing about Loki ragdolling Hulk in the latest director's cut before we grant it that status shall we? |
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Yes. Well, some of it, between the vomiting.|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I...you...what? Since when is it even debatable that Titanic was a good movie? Did you...even see it?
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| at LEAST preface something like this with "In my opinion". I realize thats probably understood anyways, but good lord. |
I really should do something about this signature.
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We didn't need to wait 30 years to know that Star Wars had a massive effect. I knew the instant I saw my mother gobsmacked. And, as part of the generation Star Wars generation, it will always have a massive influence on me.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
For the record I also had the unique privilege of being able to see (and remember) every Star Wars movie on its original opening day in the theater. One of the few advantages of being old I guess.
Again I'll grant you that the Avengers movies are very good and once it's all said and done they'll probably be able to say that as a complete franchise it made billions of dollars. Still not going to declare it on par with Star Wars, sorry. Let's give Avengers another 30+ years when we're arguing about Loki ragdolling Hulk in the latest director's cut before we grant it that status shall we? |
But the current generation of pre-teens are going to think of the Avengers in the same way we think of Star Wars. You can tell by watching their reactions.
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Oh I'm sure these young whipper-snappers think they got something wonderful on their hands. But I'd still sooner tell the Avengers to get off my lawn than to give them the satisfaction of declaring them the next Star Wars. |
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
We didn't need to wait 30 years to know that Star Wars had a massive effect. I knew the instant I saw my mother gobsmacked. And, as part of the generation Star Wars generation, it will always have a massive influence on me.
But the current generation of pre-teens are going to think of the Avengers in the same way we think of Star Wars. You can tell by watching their reactions. |
In all seriousness I'm still going to give it at least another 10 or 20 years before I can properly assess its full impact. Who's to say something won't come along a few years from now that'll make the Avengers look dumb by comparison.
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Not much contact with 8 year olds I take it?|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Oh I'm sure these young whipper-snappers think they got something wonderful on their hands. But I'd still sooner tell the Avengers to get off my lawn than to give them the satisfaction of declaring them the next Star Wars.
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They don't "declare" it anything. They are too young to be competitive in that way. To them, Star Wars is a program on the Cartoon Network, and a type of lego.
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I can't give The Avengers the same credit as Star Wars:
'The Avengers' has had more years of lead up (comics, toys, video games, tv shows,etc) than the initial release of Star Wars yet Star Wars was more expedient to create and maintain 'a followable philosophy'
It's also had a stronger theatrical build up. 'The Avengers' would be the release equivalent of Episode VI (if Star Wars were released in chronological order)
'The Avengers' & Co. would have to share any following that may develop[] with the cult of superheroes in general (competing with icons like Superman, Batman, The JLA, Spiderman, etc) while the Star Wars contingent only have themselves and the Trekkies to quarrel with
If it wasn't for Robert Downy slam-dunking the Iron Man roles, its very possible that The Avengers would've been approached more cautiously by production and movie goers alike. He was the series; everyone else was a one-shot... 'The Avengers' is the crossover that determines if those one-shots turn into series' of their own.
IMO, of course.
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Eh, I don't really have to have "contact" with 8 year olds to know that their generation will have different ideas about what their childhood cultural icons are just like we had different ideas than what people 100 years ago thought.|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Not much contact with 8 year olds I take it?
They don't "declare" it anything. They are too young to be competitive in that way. To them, Star Wars is a program on the Cartoon Network, and a type of lego. |
Still doesn't make today's 8 year olds (or 100 year olds for that matter) right about it.
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But the point of contention about saying it is having the impact of Star Wars is that the true impact of Star Wars (we don't need 30 years, but a little more time than a few weeks or even months, please) is that it wasn't just a movie success for a quick span of time (note the word "movie", Arcanaville!! 
)!
I very much agree that this movie is a thrill and greatly done and will have people (of all ages) jumping with excitement for a long while... To what extent and what will follow it and how will it all twist and work into the fabric of the collective consciousness?? We shall have to wait and see (always in motion, the future is.).
There were plenty of people trumpeting that The Matrix (and its upcoming super-duper awesome sequels that would complete the trilogy that would be the new Star Wars) was going to be what you're talking about here. Now, I have much more belief in The Avengers and all of its longstanding history within the comicbooks, but...
Let's just relax and enjoy the excitement that this excellent superhero movie provides.
@Zethustra
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What you don't grasp is at that age they don't think in terms of "my generation" and "your generation". Generally, they haven't reached that empathic level.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Eh, I don't really have to have "contact" with 8 year olds to know that their generation will have different ideas about what their childhood cultural icons are just like we had different ideas than what people 100 years ago thought.
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Oh please... I understand that kind of thing all too well. Obviously an 8 year old doesn't have the life experience to understand pop culture in terms of historical or futuristic concepts like this.|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
What you don't grasp is at that age they don't think in terms of "my generation" and "your generation". Generally, they haven't reached that empathic level.
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Today's 8 year old is going to be imprinted and impacted by what's happening to him or her today. For them Avengers is likely the big, defining series of stories much like Star Wars was for us. That doesn't SERIOUSLY make either franchise better or worse than the other.
I was just poking some fun that you obviously didn't realize I was poking...
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This is really more the point I was making. Avengers is big and I'm sure there will be plenty of "8 year olds" out there who have fond memories of it just like we have of Star Wars.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
There were plenty of people trumpeting that The Matrix (and its upcoming super-duper awesome sequels that would complete the trilogy that would be the new Star Wars) was going to be what you're talking about here. Now, I have much more belief in The Avengers and all of its longstanding history within the comicbooks, but...
Let's just relax and enjoy the excitement that this excellent superhero movie provides. |
I simply think it's far to early to call Avengers the -new- Star Wars.
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It's a bit like talking about a rookie athlete's future hall of fame status or comparing them to the all-time greats.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
This is really more the point I was making. Avengers is big and I'm sure there will be plenty of "8 year olds" out there who have fond memories of it just like we have of Star Wars.
I simply think it's far to early to call Avengers the -new- Star Wars. |
All this being said, The Avengers has huge positives going for it along the lines of becoming an in-grained cultural phenomenon (for children now and for them throughout their lives).
The main similarities to Star Wars is that it is a massively marketable mythology that modern culture can accept. Just as comicbooks were and now it could take it to the level of dominating the marketable world.
Marvel has an enormous thing on their hands. Whether or not it takes that direction, they handle it well and/or a multitude of other factors will determine where it lies within society and the minds of today's fans in the future.
Certainly, it has an enormous amount of things going for it far and beyond what The Matrix did.
@Zethustra
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This.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, we need to give Star Wars an additional 14 years before it reaches the longevity of the Avengers.
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@Quasadu
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Star Wars almost singlehandedly changed the movie-going experience. With all due respect to Jaws, Star Wars practically invented the idea of a summer blockbuster, it revolutionized the visual effects industry and it revived the all but dead Sci-Fi genre.
Avengers was an excellent movie, and certainly one that I will watch and enjoy again and again, but it's no Star Wars (and I say that from the standpoint of its impact on the industry and pop culture).
If Avengers had appeared in the kind of vaccuum that Star Wars did (say if it was the first big budget superhero movie in a decade), it might very well have had the same kind of game-changing impact that Star Wars had. But we live in an era where one or more "blockbusters" are released every weekend, not every year, and where the modern superhero movie has been going strong since X-Men hit the screens in 2000.
Also the characters in Avengers are familiar, not just from prior movies but from decades worth of comic books. There's no way those characters can have the same impact as the imposing, black clad figure of Darth Vader emerging from the smoke at the beginning of Star Wars - that was something excitingly new and instantly iconic.
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Also, while it's a great movie, the Avengers lacks new and unique visual signatures to help set it apart from other superhero movies - things like a man becoming angry and turning into a green monster are already out in pop culture as an iconic image that even non-comicbook fans are aware of, in the same way that people like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Spider-Man are iconic, regardless of how good movies about them are, or even if they feature in movies at all.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Will Avengers spawn a pseudo-religious experience for millions of people like Star Wars has? Somehow I doubt it in the long run. But I will agree that as far as mega-popular franchises go it'll certainly be one of the biggest for the foreseeable future.
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The first Star Wars movie introduced iconic visuals like lightsabers, the Death Star, Darth Vader, Stormtroopers, X-Wings, TIE fighters, R2 and 3PO, Star Destroyers - even Princess Leia's hairstyle.
Plus, it also had Lucas' "dirty" sci-fi look, and the weird blend of Westerns, samurai movies, and furuistic space settings, along with one of the best musical soundtracks ever written.
The whole impact of the style and feel of Star Wars on pop culture is way beyond anything the Avengers or any other superhero movie can create.
@Golden Girl
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Considering that it won eleven academy awards including best picture, is the second highest grossing movie in history, and was number one in the box office for fifteen consecutive weeks? I'd say there are a CRAP LOAD of people who disagree with this opinion. But to each their own.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Yes. Well, some of it, between the vomiting.
I think you will find there are a lot more than me who think Titanic was awful (no "less than great" or "mediocre" but mind-numbingly awful). You should look at some of the reviews it got at the time... |
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Those "one-shots" were already said to have a sequal coming before Avengers hit theatres. Hell before they even hit theaters. I think the only way they wouldn't have gotten a sequal was if they bombed terribly.
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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
If it wasn't for Robert Downy slam-dunking the Iron Man roles, its very possible that The Avengers would've been approached more cautiously by production and movie goers alike. He was the series; everyone else was a one-shot... 'The Avengers' is the crossover that determines if those one-shots turn into series' of their own.
IMO, of course. |
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I don't think that's a fair comparison because the Avengers is not the beginning of something like the original Star Wars trilogy was. The Avengers is the culmination of something, more comparable to the prequel movies than the original series.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Also, while it's a great movie, the Avengers lacks new and unique visual signatures to help set it apart from other superhero movies - things like a man becoming angry and turning into a green monster are already out in pop culture as an iconic image that even non-comicbook fans are aware of, in the same way that people like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Spider-Man are iconic, regardless of how good movies about them are, or even if they feature in movies at all.
The first Star Wars movie introduced iconic visuals like lightsabers, the Death Star, Darth Vader, Stormtroopers, X-Wings, TIE fighters, R2 and 3PO, Star Destroyers - even Princess Leia's hairstyle. Plus, it also had Lucas' "dirty" sci-fi look, and the weird blend of Westerns, samurai movies, and furuistic space settings, along with one of the best musical soundtracks ever written. The whole impact of the style and feel of Star Wars on pop culture is way beyond anything the Avengers or any other superhero movie can create. |
In terms of pop culture influence and creative impact, it would be more proper to compare Lucas and Star Wars with Stan Lee (plus Kirby and Ditko) and 60s Marvel Comics. To say that the Avengers lacks new and unique signatures compared to its components is like saying The Clone Wars just recycles light sabers and droids. The Avengers have been around for 49 years, the Hulk for 50 years. Captain America has been around for 71 years and he just featured in the biggest movie in the world not directed by James Cameron. I'm sure Star Wars will still be around in three decades but if Han Solo features in the biggest blockbuster of 2048, then Star Wars will be able to lay claim to the pop culture longevity represented by (but not exclusively comprised of) the Avengers.
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Let’s be honest. Star Wars is what it is due to a variety of factors not the least of which is the movie it's self. However I firmly believe that a year either way from its release date it wouldn't have had the impact it had/has. The U.S. (world?) was ready for something like Star Wars at that moment. It was the timing of it that put it over the top.
Avengers for as good as it is, and I would argue it's better then Star Wars, does not have the fortuitous timing of Star Wars and will not have any where near the cultural impact that the original Star Wars had.
I could be wrong.
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In which case Lucas still wins by a mile.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In terms of pop culture influence and creative impact, it would be more proper to compare Lucas and Star Wars with Stan Lee (plus Kirby and Ditko) and 60s Marvel Comics.
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@Golden Girl
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And spawned countless knock-offs and copycats.
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