The Shawarma Initiative *SPOILERS* AVENGERS DISCUSSION *SPOILERS*

Fin Fang Foom and MODOK would be laughed at on a movie screen.

Well saw it again tonight, at a different theater with a very different audience so I finally got to hear all the bits I didn't make out due to all the laughter during the midnight showing.

Besides the "Puny God" quote, the fact that Loki was mewling on the floor after his beat down was especially ironic.

wait what!? Aquaman is cool... when did that happen?

@Redcap

Re: the above cartoon, yes to pretty much all of it. And I miss Yakko.

To redouble said exec's pain, Joss's WW script was shot down because "no-one would connect with a WW2 superhero movie."

Errrrmm… There's another star spangled super in tights would argue with that one.

Just as an aside, can someone fill me in on this Daisy/Quake person?

Saw it Monday night and absolutely love it! Joss Whedon did such an excellent job handling the characters, from dialogue, to spot moments, giving everyone their time to shine. He handling the power levels quite well too, things could've easily gone the ridiculous route but big moments were handled well.

If I had to nitpick anything, it was the 3D. I hadn't intended to see the 3D version, but time constraints required that I did. For the most part, it was okay, but didn't particularly add anything to my experience. If anything there were a few times where I felt it detracted from my experience. There were several scenes where the 3D made the cgi look like a flat 2D surface floating away from the rest of the 3D screen.

When this began to happen, I'd remove the glasses and outside of the fuzzy lines issue, I said to my friend that it looked better. He agreed with me on this point. I should point out that I'm not a fan of 3D in general, as it mostly comes down to IN YOUR FACE moments. They didn't do any of that in this film which I appreciated. In fact the last time I saw a 3D film was Avatar and that was becase a friend bought me a ticket for IMAX 3D otherwise I wouldn've seen that in 2D as well.

The only other nitpicks I had were that the plot was pretty basic, bad guy wants to take over the world. And I couldn't quite get Loki's motivation for wanting to rule earth other than it'd be easy when he should still want to rule Asgard. Perhaps if they had made it clearer that if he were successful with Earth, they'd assist him with Asgard for example.

But the excellent characterization is what drove the film, so a weaker plot is quite understandable. Well, that and the awesome action scenes.

The other thing I didn't quite catch, either because I missed it, or it wasn't quite covered was how Loki knew about each of the Avengers that were going to be used so he could put his plan into motion. The best guess I had was that he pried it all from Hawkeye's mind. In which case, his plan had been spawned by a moment of luck?

Yeah I understand the motive they gave Loki for the film was attacking Earth as a form of regenge against Thor. It's just a rather weak motive. He even states during the film that he's the rightful ruler of Asgard.

So how does attacking Earth help him regain his "rightful place"? It doesn't. As I said, it's a nitpick and nothing so huge as to say the film suffered for it. I just thought that it would've given Loki a little stronger motive to tie his attempt to conquer Earth (Midgard) as a means to reclaiming his rule over Asgard.

So with Thanos, it's prove yourself by bringing my army to earth and I'll help you get Asgard. After all, in the Thor film, they show the Infinity guantlet housed there. It'd kind of make sense if that's where they're going with the future Avenger films.

With regards to Loki gleaning information from Fury, Black Widow, watching other heroes, etc... they're all assumptions that we, the watchers of the films have to make because they writers don't explain otherwise. Making the leaps of logic to support why a character performs an action shouldn't be necessary for a viewer / reader unless sufficient clues are provided for the leaps to be made. And there really aren't. There's one clue, the after credit scene in Thor and it doesn't suggest that he's watching over Fury's shoulder everything he opens a file with the Avengers Initiative label for example.

If that's the case, then giving Loki a simple line dashing Fury's hopes in the beginning during his confrontation in the beginning of the movie would've resolved the entire issue.

I prefer to think that Loki got information about Cap from Red Skull.