The Shawarma Initiative *SPOILERS* AVENGERS DISCUSSION *SPOILERS*

A captain...with 60+ years time-in-grade. I don't think the payscale actually goes that high and he'd probably have capped out (heh heh) after about 25 years.

*Checks* Yep. An O3 with 26+ years in pulls a WHOPPING $6136/month in 2012.

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Given that he is supposed to stand for traditional American ideals, wouldn't one of those be the Work Ethic? Isn't he going to think "I really aught to have a job" even if he has got sufficient funds?

My bad. He's showing up in the Ultimate Spider-Man TV show. Not the movie.

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Well irrelevant of his salary, if he bought war bonds 60+ years ago, the miracle of compound interest alone would make him well off.

Joss is an atheist, so he wouldn't believe that "there's only one God" (as he believes in zero gods). So yeah, in this case I think Joss was attempting to realistically convey the beliefs of the character, even if though he does not share them.

I don't think Joss sneers at Captain America. I do hear he sneers at Wonder Man, though.

I think Jubilation Lee = Jubilee is the worst, personally, but that hasn't been revealed in a movie yet.

He's had a job in the past doing freelance artwork for the Captain America comic by Marvel within the pages of his own comic.

Nowadays, he's pretty much in charge of the Avengers, SHIELD, and is protecting the entire world from threats so a civilian job is pretty much out the door.

Also I think his ID is public knowledge, so if Steve Rogers goes looking for a job he'd likely be hired because he is Captain America instead for the skill set he'd bring to the job.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Ahh that makes much more sense! We thought it was because Cap was tipping, what he thought was 'the staff', as Fury was black.

I thought it odd that Cap would be so rude to Fury. I obviously forgot the chat they had at the start! I must be inherantly racist! Sorry!

If it was a tip, Sam Jackson would have gone into "HELL no! You did NOT just do what I think you did!" mode.

Given how the movie panned out, I don't think he would feel comfortable being on the SHIELD payroll at the moment. They would have to convince him they where the good guys first.

The quote from the RL Pentagon is interesting, since it shows how the military view such organisations: with acute mistrust. "Who are you answerable too? What's the chain of command?"

I think he would use an alias, as he wouldn't want to be hired on that basis.

That could work, the Marvel movies seem to be able to get away with being self-referential.

Strictly speaking they are the good guys, it is just that Fury and SHIELD realize there are subtle shades of grey in reality while Cap has the tendency to think in terms of the good guys always where white hats and the bad guys where black hats. Steve Rogers comes from a time before covert intelligence became so....covert, if you get my meaning. Look at how angry he became when he found that SHIELD had confiscated Hydra uniforms and weapons.

SHIELD pretty much polices the police and I think they answer to the President and the U.N. but it has been awhile since I read up on them.

SHIELD had to have been likely started at the request of the US govt and it just grew and grew.....

Howard Stark helped found SHIELD and get it started, and I suspect Captain America 2 will reveal that Cap's Howling Commandos and Peggy Carter were among the original recruits for SHIELD.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

So I'm not the only one who remembers that the name of the guy who created the Abomination in the Ed Norton movie was Samuel Sterns...and remembers seeing just a little bit of the Hulk's blood from the samples dripping into an open wound on his scalp. Which then starts pulsing and growing just a bit while Sterns smiles evilly.

You don't think that MIGHT have possibly been a setup for who a sequel villain might be, do you?

I am not 100% positive that his ID was public knowledge. I know that in the Civil War arc he fought REALLY hard to allow super heroes to keep their identities a secret, though. But maybe that was just him standing up for the rights of his fellow heroes, I dunno for sure.

Prior to Civil War they made a big deal about his unmasking after stopping a post-9/11 terrorist plot. In the movies though I'm not sure he thinks the secret identity is such a big deal.

Of course it was, then the movie didn't do as well as Marvel had hoped and HULK is shelved until the AVENGERS. Since that time Red Hulk has entered the comics and now has his own series, and is in fact General Ross. So Leader as an enemy works, Red Hulk as an enemy works more since Red Hulk is a bit more prominent at the moment in the comic then the Leader

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Just a note on this.

Probably my favorite scene in recent comics history is actually a parallel of this.

Thor's fighting in a major city, gets his *** knocked across three city blocks and crashes down next to an ambulance, dropping his hammer. One of the paramedics helps Thor back to his feet, the other one picks up the hammer and hands it back to Thor without a second thought. Thor rushes to get back in the fight, only to pause for half a moment and stare back at the paramedic who handed him the hammer.

It doesn't need to be some giant "Now I'm Thor!" thing to be a big deal. The better moments are downplaying the importance of something until someone actually realizes what just happened.

In this case? I'd rather adhere to the rule of cool rather than the rule of canon.

As much as I obscenely enjoyed this movie, I think the Galaga line (and the payoff that the guy was, in fact, playing Galaga) may be my favorite line.

No, Leader works better. Hulk already had a throw-down with Abomination. Rulk would just be a repeat. Having him face off with the super-smart Leader would make for a better sequel.

The Leader *could* work as a movie villain, but they would have to remake him. The Leader in the comic books is BORING. He almost never shows his face until the final fight, and his motivations are crap. (He wants to rule the world because...he's the smartest?)

They need to re-imagine the Leader as a more dynamic and interesting character if they want to use him as a Hulk villain in the movies. I think a bigger, flashier villain would be better -- Fin Fang Foom, Nightmare, MODOK or maybe even Maestro. (Red Hulk has a bunch of his own baggage that would make him terrible for the movies.)

Red Hulk is just terrible, period. I wish that character would go away, and that they'd put She-Hulk back on the Avengers.

I'd love to see Hulk himself back on the Avengers in the comics, but I don't really see that happening any time soon after World War Hulk.

Depends on how much he bought.

$1000 of E-Bonds, pulling 4% interest, compounded semi-annually, would JUST be coming to the end of their third extended maturity period in 2011. That'd work out to about $16K

Now, a Captain's pay in 1940's WW2 Army would have been around $2,600 annually. Assuming he was active for two years and put ALL of it away, that's $5200 (before taxes).

You'd be looking at it maxing out at a little over $83,000.

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I would absolutely LOVE to see Maestro in a movie, but really the back-story for introducing that particular villain may be a bit too extensive to set up in a single film. But I would still love to see it.

"Sleeping on the job" implies he was goofing off and being negligent of his duties. The circumstances for his being on ice were unusual but it's not like he deliberately crashed the plane in the Arctic to get out of going on a date with a smokin hot babe. There's no way he could have turned the plane around and ditched it in a warmer climate near Europe, or even been talked down into a safe landing over the radio.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruMO9SXto0Q


Uhm ... err .. nvm.

Actually, I think Steve Rogers believes that the good guys are the guys who don't lie to their allies, don't keep dirty secrets, and don't believe the end justifies the means.


Which needs to be made much clearer. UNIT is basically the same organisation in the Whoniverse, but their organisation and powers is much more clearly defined. SHIELD has a lot of power, and power corrupts. Without checks and balances they could easily become the bad guys.

The only person who should have been able to authorise deployment of nuclear weapons was the President.

Who started an organisation over 60 years ago doesn't have that much affect over what it eventually becomes. And I'm not sure Rogers would consider H. Stark's judgement 100% sound anyway.

Hehe, my brother introduced me to those HISHE movies...some of them are pretty good

Indeed. Legally, it would be equivalent to someone who had been in a PoW camp for many years after the end of a conflict.