The Shawarma Initiative *SPOILERS* AVENGERS DISCUSSION *SPOILERS*
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-05-04 24:12 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Quote:
There's kind of a wink to it by the Hydra weapons having the same sound effect as Iron Man's repulsor beams. |
Originally Posted by Nericus
Also I do wonder what happened to Zola and his research over the years. SHIELD is trying to tap the energy of the tesseract but they still cannot despite Selvig's help, yet Zola in the 40's could. Also I still think that Howard Stark's research of the ammo and weapons Cap brought back to him for study then his later study of the tesseract is what led to the arc reactor research. Howard was probably trying to artificially replicate the tesseract and was limited by the tech of his era as they said in IM2 and left his research for Tony.
|
Also, let's not forget that the only reason Skull and Zola were able to store bits of Cube energy was because Red Skull took the experiment to unsafe levels. And Zola was undoubtedly sabotaging the Allies' efforts to duplicate the results.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
It may have that level of power, but it clearly doesn't work like a cosmic cube or the mere act of holding it should have allowed anyone to wield at least some of its power. There would have been no need to build elaborate technology around it. In the movie-verse it appears to be an enigmatic energy source that requires some sophistication to tap reliably and safely, or at least that appears to be true for the puny humans and Asgardians that interact with it.
|
Originally Posted by Nericus
In the comics the tesseract/cosmic cube is basically a cosmic powered Aladdin's Lamp. What it's wielder wants, becomes reality. Presuming that movie tesseract is on that power level, then it is better off in ODIN's weapons vault.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
It occurs to me I didn't mention my favorite scene. Its the scene where Banner says "that's my secret Cap, I'm always angry" and then turns into the Hulk.
Earlier in the movie Banner tells the rest of them that at one point he did in fact try to stop the Hulk by attempting suicide: he put a gun in his mouth and "he" spit out the bullet. It reminded me of Peter David's last issue of his run on the Hulk where a future Rick Jones is telling the story about what happened to Banner after Betty Ross died. At one point he recalls that Banner tried to kill himself through increasingly bizarre and spectacular ways, and how it almost seemed like the Hulk was taunting him by letting him get very close to succeeding before changing and saving him.
So when Banner says "I'm always angry" and turns I was reminded of that same comic when Rick Jones recounts when he last saw Banner. Banner had come to say goodbye, and just before he leaves he stops, takes off his glasses, and then turns into the Hulk. No pain, no struggle, one second he's Banner and the next he's the Hulk. Jones remarks how odd it was, as if Banner had finally given in to the Hulk and for the first time he just let the Hulk emerge.
That's sort of what I saw. To me Banner was showing everyone how much he struggles with the Hulk by showing what it looks like when he decides to simply let the Hulk loose. No pain, no struggle, no drawn out transformation: the Hulk simply emerges. I found that to be a pitch-perfect encapsulation of the character in that one moment. What we normally see is Banner losing the fight with the Hulk he normally wrestles with constantly. What we see in that last transformation is what happens when Banner decides to stop fighting for a moment.
I also know there are people who think there are little hints that Banner is in there in partial control of the Hulk, but I think that except for the fact that the Hulk is Banner, or at least a part of him, I don't think that is the case. Rather, I think that unlike the first time the Hulk emerges on the Helicarrier this time Banner allowed the Hulk to simply emerge; his subconsicous and conscious mind were on the same page, and the Hulk behaved accordingly. Banner knew this was a time the Hulk was needed and needed to work with the others, so the Hulk instinctively knew that also and was far more cooperative. I don't think Banner even consciously remembered the events that occurred when the Hulk went on a rampage on the Helicarrier, so he couldn't have taken any satisfaction from sucker punching Thor. But the Hulk obviously remembered.
At least that's my interpretation of those events, and why I like that one moment in the movie. Its a little thing that evokes a lot of background on the Hulk, possibly better than anything in either of the actual Hulk movies combined.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
I think the movie alludes to their being bits of Banner and Hulk influencing each other. When Hulk falls off the jet, Banner says he was lucky he didn't hurt anyone when he crash-landed, but the old man says, "Or it was just good aim," which implies Hulk wanted to land somewhere with the least collateral damage. Not to mention he could've easily squished Black Widow or the pilot of the fighter jet and didn't.
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I also know there are people who think there are little hints that Banner is in there in partial control of the Hulk, but I think that except for the fact that the Hulk is Banner, or at least a part of him, I don't think that is the case. Rather, I think that unlike the first time the Hulk emerges on the Helicarrier this time Banner allowed the Hulk to simply emerge; his subconsicous and conscious mind were on the same page, and the Hulk behaved accordingly. Banner knew this was a time the Hulk was needed and needed to work with the others, so the Hulk instinctively knew that also and was far more cooperative. I don't think Banner even consciously remembered the events that occurred when the Hulk went on a rampage on the Helicarrier, so he couldn't have taken any satisfaction from sucker punching Thor. But the Hulk obviously remembered.
At least that's my interpretation of those events, and why I like that one moment in the movie. Its a little thing that evokes a lot of background on the Hulk, possibly better than anything in either of the actual Hulk movies combined. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
This is something I was trying to figure out. Did Hulk catch the pilot after he ejected to check to make sure he had a parachute?|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Not to mention he couldn't easily squished Black Widow or the pilot of the fighter jet and didn't.
|
I'm having a lot of trouble not seeing the whole scene with Hulk on the carrier being Hulk manipulated by Loki, and actually wanting to hurt people, but luckily not doing so. The only other possibility I can think of is that he was mad and just wanted to scare the people he was mad at.
I can't wait for the DVD/Blu-Ray commentary.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Quote:
It's possible that's what he was doing. Also possible that Loki was manipulating people, since Banner seemed to rub his bridge as if warding off a headache after Loki passed his lab and Stark did the same thing when his argument with Cap was interrupted. However, Black Widow disrupted Loki's augmented manipulation of Hawkeye by resetting his consciousness, so while Banner may have started to feel the effects of Loki's influence, it's likely that the trauma of transforming into Hulk disrupted the connection as well. Banner and Black Widow were the ones who paired off during that group argument, so any hostility he was feeling toward her likely bled over into Hulk's persona. And he fought Thor and the jet because they attacked him. Hulk could have easily gone off and started attacking other SHIELD personnel while fighting in the docking bay with Thor; instead, he focused on Thor, who had already shown he could take his hits.
|
Originally Posted by Liquid
This is something I was trying to figure out. Did Hulk catch the pilot after he ejected to check to make sure he had a parachute?
I'm having a lot of trouble not seeing the whole scene with Hulk on the carrier being Hulk manipulated by Loki, and actually wanting to hurt people, but luckily not doing so. The only other possibility I can think of is that he was mad and just wanted to scare the people he was mad at. I can't wait for the DVD/Blu-Ray commentary. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
It may have that level of power, but it clearly doesn't work like a cosmic cube or the mere act of holding it should have allowed anyone to wield at least some of its power. There would have been no need to build elaborate technology around it. In the movie-verse it appears to be an enigmatic energy source that requires some sophistication to tap reliably and safely, or at least that appears to be true for the puny humans and Asgardians that interact with it.
|
Or, more amusingly, the tesseract works just like the comic cosmic cube, but its just no-one thought to pick up this radiation emmiting power source with bare hands and make a wish. Given what happened to Red Skull, its plausible thats where they are going with it.
Loki is going to be kicking himself when he finds out!
Always remember, we were Heroes.
Quote:
I believe that's because the Hulk is "a bit of Banner" in terms of being a piece of Banner's subconscious in the first place. But I don't think Banner's literal conscious mind was in a fuzzy sense lurking in the Hulk. I don't see the Hulk and Banner as two different people where one is in the foreground and the other in the background alternatingly. I think the Hulk is a part of Banner he suppresses when he's not the Hulk. Another way of putting it is I think Banner is a different person when he's the Hulk like a drunk person is a different person when intoxicated, only to a much higher degree.
|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
I think the movie alludes to their being bits of Banner and Hulk influencing each other. When Hulk falls off the jet, Banner says he was lucky he didn't hurt anyone when he crash-landed, but the old man says, "Or it was just good aim," which implies Hulk wanted to land somewhere with the least collateral damage. Not to mention he couldn't easily squished Black Widow or the pilot of the fighter jet and didn't.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Not to mention he couldn't easily squished Black Widow or the pilot of the fighter jet and didn't.
|
Not to nitpick but in that scene with Widow Thor in affect saved her from a Hulk that wasn't going to hold his back swing. Banners mid-transformation stare at Widow conveyed fear, probably for her.
/nerdoff
Quote:
This actually explains a lot. I have no memory of that specific pair-off (I need to see this movie again, ARGH!) so that jives with an interview comment I read from Joss that was talking about how you don't want him to be transforming into the Hulk at that point, because he's actually mad at her (prior to your comment, I was like "why was he mad at her?").|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Banner and Black Widow were the ones who paired off during that group argument, so any hostility he was feeling toward her likely bled over into Hulk's persona.
|
I'm still not sure about the bit with the Jet pilot though. I just was thinking, maybe he grabs him in anger, realizes he shouldn't kill him, and then tosses him away in anger.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Quote:
I think Loki's plan was to get the Hulk angry, believing that was the key to releasing the monster. But as we later learn, that doesn't work because Banner is always angry. What does work is when Hawkeye's arrow blows up the room, and that causes Banner's resolve to weaken enough for his subconscious mind to say "this would be a good time for the Hulk to come out, isn't it?" |
Originally Posted by Liquid
This is something I was trying to figure out. Did Hulk catch the pilot after he ejected to check to make sure he had a parachute?
I'm having a lot of trouble not seeing the whole scene with Hulk on the carrier being Hulk manipulated by Loki, and actually wanting to hurt people, but luckily not doing so. The only other possibility I can think of is that he was mad and just wanted to scare the people he was mad at. I can't wait for the DVD/Blu-Ray commentary. |
Once the Hulk emerges, Banner's control goes with it and Loki's agitation of Banner translates into a very hot-headed Hulk.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
You should watch more Joss. There is a reason it is called being "Joss'd" when someone everyone likes gets suddenly killed.
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I don't care whose idea it was, I like story lines where beloved characters die.
|
@Rien
I am Lord Omi. Now and forever. They can take our City, but they can't take me.
Quote:
I agree with this (at least for the version depicted in this particular film). Otherwise why would Hulk have been so concerned about Tony Stark at the end? I think he had concern because of the admiration and respect Banner has for Stark as being the successful scientist he wanted to be, and the bond they formed in the lab on the helicarrier. Hulk had no experience with Stark prior to this fight, so he can't be a different person from Banner, because that was all Banner's concern.
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I believe that's because the Hulk is "a bit of Banner" in terms of being a piece of Banner's subconscious in the first place. But I don't think Banner's literal conscious mind was in a fuzzy sense lurking in the Hulk. I don't see the Hulk and Banner as two different people where one is in the foreground and the other in the background alternatingly. I think the Hulk is a part of Banner he suppresses when he's not the Hulk. Another way of putting it is I think Banner is a different person when he's the Hulk like a drunk person is a different person when intoxicated, only to a much higher degree.
|
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Well, I was wrong in which person died. I was fully expecting either Fury, Black Widow, or Hawkeye to bite it. Was leaning more towards Hawkeye than anyone else.
Favorite scenes? Hulk punching Thor after they took down the dragon thingie. And Hulk playing Smash-The-Tin-God.
Quote:
I'm not so sure about this, though it could be true. |
Originally Posted by Nericus
Also I do wonder what happened to Zola and his research over the years. SHIELD is trying to tap the energy of the tesseract but they still cannot despite Selvig's help, yet Zola in the 40's could. Also I still think that Howard Stark's research of the ammo and weapons Cap brought back to him for study then his later study of the tesseract is what led to the arc reactor research. Howard was probably trying to artificially replicate the tesseract and was limited by the tech of his era as they said in IM2 and left his research for Tony.
|
What a lot of people are either forgetting, or just plain dont realize is that the Howard Stark in Captain Americas movie is not Tonys father. The Howard Stark in Captain America is Tonys grandfather Howard Stark Senior. Tonys father is actually Howard Anthony Stark. I know, having two Howard Starks in the line before Tony was confusing to me to for a short time.
Now according to IM1, Howard Anthony and Obadia Stane built the Arc Reactor in the Stark building. According to Stane, it was a publicity stunt to shut up the hippies. Now its possible that with what we saw IM2, that what Howard Anthony left to Tony that led to his inspiration to create the more stable element that powers his newest chest reactor could have come from Howard Seniors notes from his work on the Tesseract. On the other hand, any work Howard Senior did on the Tesseract would likely have been for the US government and not something he could talk about to his son, nor could he likely leave notes for Howard Anthony to inspire him. According to IM2, what Howard Anthony left for Tony was not something about the tesseract, but related directly to the new element that Tony comes up with because Howard Anthony didnt have the tech in his time to actually create. Thats why he left it to Tony.
Quote:
With all due respect, you're missing the point that I don't care what it's called or if there's a valid reason for the name. I approve of popular character deaths. I enjoy and treasure main character deaths. They become fixed points in time that inspire deep emotional responses, that I never forget. |
Originally Posted by GreatRock
You should watch more Joss. There is a reason it is called being "Joss'd" when someone everyone likes gets suddenly killed.
|
Col Henry Blake's plane being shot down over the Sea of Japan
Dr. Janet Frasier getting shot by a staff weapon
Kate getting sniped by Ari
Jenny Shepard dying in the shootout with the Russian
Mike Franks being killed fighting the port to port killer
etc. etc.
(It really pisses me off when they bring back dead characters)
And to be perfectly honest, I wasn't all that fond of Coulson to begin with. The way he died facing Loki made me appreciate him as what he really was, one of the two real heroes in the entire movie. The other being the elderly German.
Just an ordinary human being refusing to back down, defiant to the end.
Quote:
<3
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Kate getting sniped by Ari
Jenny Shepard dying in the shootout with the Russian Mike Franks being killed fighting the port to port killer |
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
I read somewhere that the gem in Loki's staff was the Mind gem.
Regardless I got the impression that Loki's staff was influencing everyone in that room, making everyone angrier and angrier, trying to trigger the Hulk.
Quote:
Actually I really liked the 200th episode "Life Before His Eyes" where Gibbs encounters a number of "dead" characters during a near death experience/alternate timelines.
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Kate getting sniped by Ari
Jenny Shepard dying in the shootout with the Russian Mike Franks being killed fighting the port to port killer (It really pisses me off when they bring back dead characters) |
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
So much fun!
And so well done! Fitting everything that they did in, and giving all the characters just-about equal quality time, is not an easy task at all.
The character interactions, and just the grasps of the characters and staying true to them... Joss Wehdon knows and respects those aspects so well.
Great job writing and directing this movie.
And, while all the actors did a terrific job, I just have to say that Mark Ruffalo was fantastic. As soon as I saw him, I thought, "Oh, yeah... he's got this" and he didn't disappoint. He had such a great unassuming and disheveled manner about him. It reminded me a bit of Peter Falk, actually.
So many great fun and funny lines and moments, but...
One moment that I loved, pretty early on, was Black Widow's reaction of utter fear to Banner's fake-out of getting angry. The whole audience was laughing and there she was, not just rightly frightened, as I first suspected, but truly, deeply traumatized... something in her troubled psyche really threw her for a loop... I think the insane level of ferocity of Hulk and, perhaps more-so, that neither her physical skills nor her skills of persuasion would have any effect on him.
Whatever the reasons, her eyes full of fear sold that moment into something much more intense than a quick prank/gag.
"Puny god" has to be the best line though.
"Shakespeare In The Park" was one of many great Stark lines, haha...
Quote:
The fact that he covered one eye, while surveying Fury's command station had me cracking up. Hahahaha... |
Originally Posted by DLancer
"How does Fury see everything on the other screens?"
"He turns around." "How tiring." Tony and his fancy holographic displays is confronted with actual computer screens. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Olantern
Aside from all the other things mentioned in this thread, another thing I really liked about this movie was how blessedly free it was from the constant slow-motion/fast-motion/slow-motion leaping around that has come to characterize most movie fight choreography since the rise of the wire-fu movie as an American cultural phenomenon. In The Avengers, in contrast, even when the characters were leaping about wildly, it was presented in a relatively straightforward fashion. This made things like the Hulk sliding down buildings or Captain America bouncing his shield off things much more impressive, since they were presented within a framework of otherwise fairly realistic-looking movement.
... |
It was great to see the action in such a "natural" way, yet (no surprise here) you could still make it all out! It just takes good work... seems like people these days skip the good work part and rely on techniques they think (or are taught) are necessary.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
With a telephone pole to the chest. :P Somebody likes Aliens WAAAY too much.|
Originally Posted by GreatRock
You should watch more Joss. There is a reason it is called being "Joss'd" when someone everyone likes gets suddenly killed.
|
Speaking of his Great Purple Magnanimous Rotundity, He Hath Spoken over on Whedonesque.com:
Quote:
| I think -- not to jinx it -- that I may finally be recognized at Comiccon. Imagine! Also, with my percentage of "the Avengers" gross, I can afford to buy... (gets call from agent. Weeps manfully. Resumes typing.) ...a fine meal. But REALLY fine, with truffles and s#!+. And I can get a studio to finance my dream project, the reboot of "Air Bud" that we all feel is so long overdue. (He could play Jai Alai! Think of the emotional ramifications of JAI ALAI!!!!) |
Quote:
| What doesn't change is anything that matters. What doesn't change is that I've had the smartest, most loyal, most passionate, most articulate group of -- I'm not even gonna say fans. I'm going with "peeps" -- that any cult oddity such as my bad self could have dreamt of. When almost no one was watching, when people probably should have STOPPED watching, I've had three constants: my family and friends, my collaborators (often the same), and y'all. |
Quote:
| There are very few perfect movies. "The Court Jester", "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", "Godfather" I & II... The list does not go on and on. "The Avengers" is notably IMperfect, which makes its success mean so much more to me -- because it's striking a chord that matters MORE than its obvious flaws. Like the team, it appears to be more than the sum of its parts. |
Quote:
| I can't say this enough: THIS IS NOT A ZERO SUM GAME. Our successes, whoever has the mostest, are a boon to each other. We're in the business of proving that superhero movies aren't just eye-candy (they're eye-TRUFFLES!). People seem intent on setting us against each other, and though I'm proud to be Woody Strode to Nolan's Kirk Douglas, I think they're missing the point. Whatever TDKR does on its first weekend, the only stat that matters to me is the ticket I'M definitely buying. Nolan and Raimi INVENTED the true superhero flick, yo. (Special mention to Jon Favreau and James Gunn.) Happy to be in the mix. |
Quote:
|
Does this mean you have changed the very fabric of existence? Dude, it's just a movie. Also, yes. |
Worship his Mighty Shawarmic Magnificence:
http://whedonesque.com/comments/28797
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
Quote:
Those are fine, I was referring to things like Dr. Elizabeth Weir (SG:Atlantis) dying and then returning as a replicator.
|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Actually I really liked the 200th episode "Life Before His Eyes" where Gibbs encounters a number of "dead" characters during a near death experience/alternate timelines.
|
Quote:
Uh, no. That's his father. |
Originally Posted by Samothrake
What a lot of people are either forgetting, or just plain dont realize is that the Howard Stark in Captain Americas movie is not Tonys father. The Howard Stark in Captain America is Tonys grandfather Howard Stark Senior. Tonys father is actually Howard Anthony Stark. I know, having two Howard Starks in the line before Tony was confusing to me to for a short time.
|
There is a line in the beginning of Iron Man where he tells the reporter, "My father fought the Nazi's and helped develop the atom bomb."
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Quote:
The Mind Gem?? . We see what looks to be the complete infinity gauntlet in THOR in the Asgard vault, plus I can't see THANOS loaning any of the infinity gems to anyone. If he had any of the gems I doubt he'd need the tesseract. I think that energy on his staff was the same energy that was within the tesseract itself, but that is just speculation on my part. |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
I read somewhere that the gem in Loki's staff was the Mind gem.
Regardless I got the impression that Loki's staff was influencing everyone in that room, making everyone angrier and angrier, trying to trigger the Hulk. Actually I really liked the 200th episode "Life Before His Eyes" where Gibbs encounters a number of "dead" characters during a near death experience/alternate timelines. |
Also yes, Loki was using his power through the staff to get everyone angry. What's funny though is that it was still legitimate anger as everyone in that room has frustrations and egos for Loki to nudge and twist until he provokes the Hulk.
Quote:
Banner seemed to remember the Hulk out on the helicarrier when he apologized to Black Widow when she said "I've seen worse". Banner and the Hulk definitely rattled her composure to say the least. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
It occurs to me I didn't mention my favorite scene. Its the scene where Banner says "that's my secret Cap, I'm always angry" and then turns into the Hulk.
Earlier in the movie Banner tells the rest of them that at one point he did in fact try to stop the Hulk by attempting suicide: he put a gun in his mouth and "he" spit out the bullet. It reminded me of Peter David's last issue of his run on the Hulk where a future Rick Jones is telling the story about what happened to Banner after Betty Ross died. At one point he recalls that Banner tried to kill himself through increasingly bizarre and spectacular ways, and how it almost seemed like the Hulk was taunting him by letting him get very close to succeeding before changing and saving him. So when Banner says "I'm always angry" and turns I was reminded of that same comic when Rick Jones recounts when he last saw Banner. Banner had come to say goodbye, and just before he leaves he stops, takes off his glasses, and then turns into the Hulk. No pain, no struggle, one second he's Banner and the next he's the Hulk. Jones remarks how odd it was, as if Banner had finally given in to the Hulk and for the first time he just let the Hulk emerge. That's sort of what I saw. To me Banner was showing everyone how much he struggles with the Hulk by showing what it looks like when he decides to simply let the Hulk loose. No pain, no struggle, no drawn out transformation: the Hulk simply emerges. I found that to be a pitch-perfect encapsulation of the character in that one moment. What we normally see is Banner losing the fight with the Hulk he normally wrestles with constantly. What we see in that last transformation is what happens when Banner decides to stop fighting for a moment. I also know there are people who think there are little hints that Banner is in there in partial control of the Hulk, but I think that except for the fact that the Hulk is Banner, or at least a part of him, I don't think that is the case. Rather, I think that unlike the first time the Hulk emerges on the Helicarrier this time Banner allowed the Hulk to simply emerge; his subconsicous and conscious mind were on the same page, and the Hulk behaved accordingly. Banner knew this was a time the Hulk was needed and needed to work with the others, so the Hulk instinctively knew that also and was far more cooperative. I don't think Banner even consciously remembered the events that occurred when the Hulk went on a rampage on the Helicarrier, so he couldn't have taken any satisfaction from sucker punching Thor. But the Hulk obviously remembered. At least that's my interpretation of those events, and why I like that one moment in the movie. Its a little thing that evokes a lot of background on the Hulk, possibly better than anything in either of the actual Hulk movies combined. |
Still it brings a nice smile to this Hulk fan's face when Cap says
"Dr. Banner, now would be a really good time for you to get angry."
"That's my secret, Captain. I'm ALWAYS angry!" Then he transforms and with one punch stops the war dragon.
People in the theater when I saw the film were busting a gut laughing when Hulk took care of business with Loki. As Loki was laying in the ground I yelled out "Ladies and Gentlemen, Loki has left the building!" people start laughing even more.
As to why Thanos needs the Tesseract, it does occur to me that its raw power may not be the point. It may be the most obvious reason shown in the movie itself: it can be used to transport armies to distant worlds. They apparently needed the Tesseract to transport Thanos' army to Earth. If there was an easier way to do that, they would have probably used it. Thanos may need the Tesseract for the simple reason that it opens the door to reaching any world he sets his sights on relatively easily.
In the Thor movie Thor mentions the Asgardian cosmology where the universe is separated into different realms. Thanos may be largely confined to one of them, and while he can influence others that ability is limited by the power he currently possesses. The tesseract may be powerful as a weapon, but the ability to allow you to go anywhere in force may be its most important capability.
In the comics the tesseract/cosmic cube is basically a cosmic powered Aladdin's Lamp. What it's wielder wants, becomes reality. Presuming that movie tesseract is on that power level, then it is better off in ODIN's weapons vault.
Also I do wonder what happened to Zola and his research over the years. SHIELD is trying to tap the energy of the tesseract but they still cannot despite Selvig's help, yet Zola in the 40's could. Also I still think that Howard Stark's research of the ammo and weapons Cap brought back to him for study then his later study of the tesseract is what led to the arc reactor research. Howard was probably trying to artificially replicate the tesseract and was limited by the tech of his era as they said in IM2 and left his research for Tony.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.