Let's chat seriously about PC Animals...
By
AmazingMOO,
Posted on: 2012-04-12 13:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Just judging by where haste and a number of the other odd buffs show up on dogs, I wonder if the weapons would attach to dog/cat hind quarters.
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Having looked up where that image is from and watching a video of that fight, that's a perfect way to do Titan Weapons on an animal model.|
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Ahem.
 EDIT: Arcana's was good too. |
A big grey wolf using a big-A sword is just cool. It even switches its grip like a dog would adjust his grip on a chewtoy or bone so it can effectively slash from either side.
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I was just seeing Hong Kong Phooey as a bad alternative
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
BTW, it's not really that far to go from this:
To this:  |
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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The art and animation all over that game is beautifully done, but Sif is head and shoulders above the rest, even. It looks so remarkably believable. He was my favorite boss fight without question and the only one I really, truly wished I didn't have to do at the same time. The big guy definitely didn't deserve to die, but, c'est la vie, if you watched the fight, you know there's no alternative when your opponent can swing a sword around like that.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Having looked up where that image is from and watching a video of that fight, that's a perfect way to do Titan Weapons on an animal model.
A big grey wolf using a big-A sword is just cool. It even switches its grip like a dog would adjust his grip on a chewtoy or bone so it can effectively slash from either side. |
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
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I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
Four-legged 'super heroes' were... an oddity and rarity in comics, really. It would be a lot of work to make it work with all of our power sets, I imagine. That and, well... I don't know. I always had this feeling those 'sidekicks' were just a way to draw in a younger crowd, and generally (not always) dumbed a series down and were quickly written off.
I'd probably cringe if a four-legged model was playable in an AT-wide regard. Now, maybe a specific AT or Power Set that utilizes that...
... nah, we'll never get something like that.
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I really, really dislike this idea. Which is odd for someone who has a Sea Urchin character ingame.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Perhaps you didn't read the title: PC Animals.
That's 'Player Controlled Animals'. Of course they're intelligent enough if they're going to be speaking with contacts, going into missions, disarming bombs, using computers and being as perceptive as a player can be with their regular type characters. |
I wouldn't mind a shapeshifter type with their own attacks and abilities which are suited to the form (which The Echinoderm does), but dogs wielding katanas in their mouths, or barking rockets / arrows / etc or pooping traps just seems silly to me.
City of Druids is most likely on the way anyway* which is to me a happy medium between the two (animal forms for those that want them but with attacks and moves which makes sense and use of those forms)
*Based on nothing more than scraps and hints floating around the boards and things like Shadowhunter and the constant reuse of the 4 legged rig.
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Animals fighting like animals would anatomically fight I really have no problem with. It looks natural when a cat or a dog or a bear does it, so I see no reason why it wouldn't look natural for a super-hero cat or dog or bear or so forth.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Animals are faster and can be more flexible in their body movements. I'd imagine a dog/cat in melee would look something like Blanca from Shadow Hearts II. Claws attacks would be simple slashes and bites but he also had acrobatic and dynamic moves that used the whole body, even leaping in the air and doing backflips to knock foes up.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
No, I wouldn't imagine a dog simply swinging his neck to slash at a foe with a sword in his mouth. The dog would lunge and turn their whole body (reminiscent of chasing their tail) to get that cut.
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If we want to replicate weapon sets, then I'd say we really need to figure out ways to mount those weapons on the animal in such a way that it makes sense for that animal to use them in a more natural way than just tossing a dog a katana. I could go as far as to say that not all animals might be appropriate to all weapons. A cat or a dog might be appropriate for claw-like weapons as those are typically short and can be depicted by slashing with the paws, but what about piercing weapons?
Well... There are animals who already have piercing weapons in nature, such as Rhinos, Elephants and so forth. I could easily see one of those with bladed horns or tusks using attacks similar to a sword user. In fact, rhinos specifically have a fairly large range of motion on their necks, allowing them to thrust, swing and cleave if they're given a bladed horn long enough. It might still look goofy, but at least less outlandish.
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To be perfectly honest, if we're ever going to see player-controlled animals, I'd rather they came as some sort of a shape-shifter AT like what Kheldians get, only more generic. I'm not sure how that might work to avoid the Kheldian problem of having a zillion powers AND powers in the forms to worry about, but to me, that's the best case scenario. In these cases, the animals can be restricted to animations and powers that are more natural to the animal, they'll be easier to produce and they won't require the redoing of all combat animations.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That's not going to happen - player controled animals will only use animal attacks.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
we're talking about animals that would be intelligent enough to know what weapons are, how to properly use them and how to train themselves to use them as well as possible.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Five pages and I'm the first?
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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There's a ton of half-human half-animal-type superheroes, not just Tigra. And that's just talking DC/Marvel, and not say... The various Disney verses.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
It is a bad thing.
The hilarious-yet-feelings-of-squeamishness-inducing Furry universe is one thing; however this game is straying so far from its original theme. I don't really feel that superheroes have much to do with Furries, Tigra to the side. Why are we looking at them in this game? Can't really say that I yearn to see katana-wielding dogs, computer-using foxes or Shield-wearing wolves, but evidently everyone else is honing to jump right on the concept so c'est la vie. |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
Just weighing in another opinion about this whole topic.
Every single one of my toons is an animal (all monkies). And that said... I think the whole 4 legged canine-like animal thing is getting stupid. Superheroes who have animal-like features works for me. Animals with superpowers... I don't like it.
Where's the line between the two? I'm not sure... but a friggin dog with a sword in his mouth is on the wrong side of it.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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Relax - it's not gonna happen - even in a comicbook game, there are limits to the amount of stupidity that it can support |
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
Animals with superpowers... I don't like it.
Where's the line between the two? I'm not sure... but a friggin dog with a sword in his mouth is on the wrong side of it. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Oh, I dunno.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Relax - it's not gonna happen - even in a comicbook game, there are limits to the amount of stupidity that it can support
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You're still here...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'm a human, not an animal |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Oh, I dunno.
You're still here... |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The quote was in relation to an amount of stupid, not any sort of being, human, animal or otherwise.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I'm a human, not an animal
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bark bark stab
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
I thought this was going to be about politically correct animals.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Things like that can be made with normal animal parts in the costume creator.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I tried Googling "dog launcher" but that only got devices to launch balls for dogs to chase. Surprisingly, searching on "dogapult" gave better results. |
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
I tried Googling 'dog weapon' for a quick search to see if anyone anywhere at any time ever pondered this idea. Apparently not. Using dogs as weapons though...
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Well, I have to concede the idea is interesting, but just because there are cartoons or video games with animals wielding weapons in their mouths, doesn't mean it necessarily equates to supehero canon.
At the very best, you have superpowered animals, and they're strictly a niche/novelty area of the genre (Legion of Superpets, anyone?) and at worst, they're anthropromorphised into animals with human-shaped bodies. I have trouble honestly seeing this get up as an idea beyond minion status as we have it with Beast Summoning. Things are already crowded if you have one set of player-controlled animals on a map, and to add to that with power effects...? I could just imagine the furore that'd cause on the forums.
I see things at a near-critical mass as it is right now, and I think this would push things over the edge a bit, to be honest.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
There's a talking Coyote in Night Ward, but he doesn't use weapons
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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you both are.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Oh, I dunno.
You're still here... |
We know that animations propagate across all the humanoid skeletons to some degree. For example, Warwalkers can use all the dance emotes if controlled by someone with access to them.
The cat and dog rigs *probably* have the same major animation bones... head, neck, shoulders, arms, elbows... etc...
Of course I don't know for sure because I don't have access to the source models.
Something I'd like the devs to experiment with is taking the existing cat and dog models and seeing what happens when you apply the existing animations *without* changes. What happens when you give a dog a broadsword and ask it to perform Headsplitter? Does the sword point the right direction, as if you were trying to recreate the 'Puss in Boots' image I posted earlier? Does the animation play anything LIKE correctly? How bad is the clipping and deformation?
Also, can you put a hat on a cat? 'Cause that'd be awesome.