Hawkeye -- world's worst archer?
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2012-03-15 08:58 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Who needs perfect form when you've got the sort of back-up he does?
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Also, all we've really seen so far is the one shot of him looking like he's about to fire while falling backwards out of a window. Sometimes you just gotta shoot from the hip. 
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I pretty much always assume that Hollywood will always mess up something when it comes to showing martial arts and/or weapons usage. Sometimes I can sort of ignore it if they don't make a big deal out of it to begin with.|
Originally Posted by Hazmatter
Also, all we've really seen so far is the one shot of him looking like he's about to fire while falling backwards out of a window. Sometimes you just gotta shoot from the hip.
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I figure as long as they don't focus on Hawkeye doing something stupid with the bow every 30 seconds I'll be able to give it a pass.
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Isn't Hawkeye a mutant though? So basically he always hits his target by virtue of lazy writing!
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afaik the actor playing Hawkeye said, that he did train with a bow for several month prior to production start.
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Hawkeye has a Hulk. Screw proper form.
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Gotta love the logic of people happily accepting living Norse Gods, amazing technical armour beyond modern capabilities, a guy who was frozen in ice for 50 odd years and a man who turns in to a massive green guy when he's annoyed about something.....but that man with the bow and arrow? He's doing it wrong!!
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Originally Posted by Coin
Gotta love the logic of people happily accepting living Norse Gods, amazing technical armour beyond modern capabilities, a guy who was frozen in ice for 50 odd years and a man who turns in to a massive green guy when he's annoyed about something.....but that man with the bow and arrow? He's doing it wrong!!
Love it |
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To be fair, as said in the OP, the author discussed Hunger Games and Brave BEFORE talking about the Avengers, and said how the form on those was probably beyond the call of duty. |
Originally Posted by Coin
Gotta love the logic of people happily accepting living Norse Gods, amazing technical armour beyond modern capabilities, a guy who was frozen in ice for 50 odd years and a man who turns in to a massive green guy when he's annoyed about something.....but that man with the bow and arrow? He's doing it wrong!!
Love it |
So talking about a movie that goes in the other direction isn't really all that bad.
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Originally Posted by Coin
Gotta love the logic of people happily accepting living Norse Gods, amazing technical armour beyond modern capabilities, a guy who was frozen in ice for 50 odd years and a man who turns in to a massive green guy when he's annoyed about something.....but that man with the bow and arrow? He's doing it wrong!!
Love it |
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Originally Posted by Tormentoso
To be fair, as said in the OP, the author discussed Hunger Games and Brave BEFORE talking about the Avengers, and said how the form on those was probably beyond the call of duty.
So talking about a movie that goes in the other direction isn't really all that bad. |
If there was someone out there who was nitpicking that the Hulk's skin color is not the right shade of green then I think you'd have cause to call that kind of criticism ridiculous.
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Wait wait wait wait wait.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
While I agree it's a bit silly to be nitpicking an archer's form in a movie that has a whole bunch of IMPOSSIBLE things in it it's also worthwhile to point out that at least we can compare Hawkeye's archery technique to real life because archery actually EXISTS in real life. Ultimately there really is no excuse for a supposed expert archer to 'arch' stupidly in any context comic-booky or not.
If there was someone out there who was nitpicking that the Hulk's skin color is not the right shade of green then I think you'd have cause to call that kind of criticism ridiculous. |
Are you telling me that the Hulk ISN'T based on real-life?!?!?!!?!
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The Hulk is totally based on real life. I was married to her.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Wait wait wait wait wait.
Are you telling me that the Hulk ISN'T based on real-life?!?!?!!?! (mind blown) |
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Ur = The name of an ancient Mesopotamian city.
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I still refuse to do archery in a game where the string goes through your farm when idle, and I played an archer in DAoC where the graphics weren't good enough to even give the bows strings at all!
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I'll agree that the archery instructor has a valid point about form when he can show the characters in the movies he's complimenting demonstrate they can maintain perfect form when they are also trying to shoot while falling backwards out of a window.|
Originally Posted by Hazmatter
Also, all we've really seen so far is the one shot of him looking like he's about to fire while falling backwards out of a window. Sometimes you just gotta shoot from the hip.
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Competition shooting on a range is a lot different than what Hawkeye was doing.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Wait wait wait wait wait.
Are you telling me that the Hulk ISN'T based on real-life?!?!?!!?! (mind blown) |
HEY! that's enough out of you! no one asked for your opinion.
and Hawkeye always had a "superhuman" level of accuracy, so proper form wasn't required. comparing to others is pointless, the superhero ALWAYS wins
Oh yeah, that was the time that girl got her whatchamacallit stuck in that guys dooblickitz and then what his name did that thing with the lizards and it cleared right up.
screw your joke, i want "FREEM"
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I don't think the article writer is saying that Hawkeye is totally unbelievable because his form is flawed. I think the article writer is making the point that the movie makers clearly spent lots of time trying to make Iron Man's armor at least appear to be plausible, the writers spent an entire movie making Thor's backstory rational, and then they skimped on teaching Jeremy Renner how to shoot a bow better than a twelve year old at summer camp. That's an odd set of priorities, and suggests that given the attention to detail spent elsewhere, they simply didn't think it was necessary to make Hawkeye's archery look realistic. When they want to get it right, they can: movies hire military consultants, weapons consultants, and martial arts consultants all the time. And when they deviate from reality there's usually a reason. Shooting two pistols two handed might suck in the real world, but it looks cool on the screen. The article writer makes the valid point that doing it right in this case would not have made it any less cool: they did not deviate from the proper archery technique to make anything look visually better. In other words, they did not gain anything from being inaccurate, and they would not have lost anything if they attempted to be accurate. That's something worth noting.|
Originally Posted by Coin
Gotta love the logic of people happily accepting living Norse Gods, amazing technical armour beyond modern capabilities, a guy who was frozen in ice for 50 odd years and a man who turns in to a massive green guy when he's annoyed about something.....but that man with the bow and arrow? He's doing it wrong!!
Love it |
I'm not a professional archer. I would not have noticed most of those flaws had they not been pointed out to me. But they snuck in a Captain America shield as an inside joke in one movie, and a frozen Captain America in another (albeit in a cut scene). Shouldn't someone have been thinking about sneaking in some excellent archery form as an inside detail for the archery students in the audience watching supposedly the worlds greatest archer, even if it meant absolutely nothing to the rest of us?
If there is an irony its the fact that you *wouldn't* expect Katniss to show perfect archery form. She's a completely self-taught archer that hunts for food. She has superior innate skill, but shouldn't have perfect form. She should be a diamond in the rough, so to speak: an instinctive shooter and not a crafted one. But you'd think with the resources available to him Hawkeye would have at least studied archery, in a way completely impossible for Katniss to do so. Katniss can't even look up archery on wikipedia.
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Link of Hawkeye here
Watching this clip of Hawkeye with his bow, he has his thumb up against his cheek while he has his bow string pulled back. Seems like what the original link said was proper.
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Another Link of Hawkeye
1:21 seconds in...doing the whole hand against the cheek. So far, it looks like the one author is basing it off the scene of Hawkeye falling out of a window while trying to fire off an arrow before...you know...he falls to his death. 
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Somehow I don't think Hawkeye's archer skills being based in reality or not is going to make or break this film.
If he had his own film, maybe...
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It's like any professional nitpicking how their profession/skills are shown on film.
And it doesn't surprise me that Brave gets it right. Pixar is notoriously known to spend money to send their creative people to really analyze their topic. Getting a few marksmen/women if front of a high speed camera as well as demonstrating the "wrong" way gives them the background to "get it right".
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Neither did the wired article author believe that. But that has absolutely nothing to do with whether the movie does something correctly that would have cost virtually nothing to get right, and helps nothing by being wrong.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Somehow I don't think Hawkeye's archer skills being based in reality or not is going to make or break this film.
If he had his own film, maybe... |
As I said: two-handed dual pistol shooters? Totally unrealistic, but cool. So fine by me. But if you use air soft pistols in that same movie with the red stripe still on the barrel, I'm going to think that's stupid no matter how much people point out its fictional anyway.
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Well if you look at the arrow it's more of a grappling hook deal. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Another Link of Hawkeye
1:21 seconds in...doing the whole hand against the cheek. So far, it looks like the one author is basing it off the scene of Hawkeye falling out of a window while trying to fire off an arrow before...you know...he falls to his death. |
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Its possible that the reverse is true: Since we know that Hawkeye is in fact the world's best archer, it stands to reason the way he is doing it is right and everyone else has it wrong.
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An archery instructor on Wired.com has done an analysis of the three big archery movies this year -- The Avengers, The Hunger Games, and Brave.
According to him, Hunger Games is getting it right and Brave is near-perfect, but the archery form shown by Hawkeye in The Avengers is god-awful. Maybe we should leave the archery to the womenfolk.
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