Avengers v X-Men - help my eyeballs
By
80sBaby,
Posted on: 2012-01-26 20:21 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Spider-Man once had almost beaten all the X-Men by himself, only stopped by Professor X. Also, Cap has beaten Spidey pretty much consistently in every encounter. So I'm giving my Edge to the Avengers.
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I haven't read the story myself, but I the way I heard it is that during the recent "Fear Itself" event, Colossus recieved the powers of the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak. Juggernaut presumably got the same sort of godlike power boost that a number of other villains recieved around the same time.
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Originally Posted by ebon3
However 9 covers down I see Thing versus what looks like a Colossus/Juggernaut hybrid?????????????????? Did Marvel really screw something up that bad or is this some one shot anomally (this collosnaut)?
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There is an art, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. --The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
That abberation on cover 9 aside, Spidey definetely punches above his weight. He's beat the hell out of Iron Man before.
Although, I concur, its probably a safe bet that the Avengers will come out on top.
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I hope its temporary.
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Originally Posted by Hazmatter
I haven't read the story myself, but I the way I heard it is that during the recent "Fear Itself" event, Colossus recieved the powers of the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak. Juggernaut presumably got the same sort of godlike power boost that a number of other villains recieved around the same time.
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------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
Why do Spider Woman and Gambit look like they're made of silly putty?
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It's not actually a metallic alloy and has been resistant to magnetism for quite some time. Tony's also immune to EMP's.|
Originally Posted by ebon3
http://comics.ign.com/articles/121/1...2-01-13_163000=
So I see this link on IGN and click it. The first comic will answer a question I've always had about a guy who uses a magnetically reinforced exoskeleton against the master of magnatism (I always figured Tony would be on the severe losing end of that battle but I digress) |
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| However 9 covers down I see Thing versus what looks like a Colossus/Juggernaut hybrid?????????????????? Did Marvel really screw something up that bad or is this some one shot anomally (this collosnaut)? |
Poor Marko... he's gotten a raw deal ever since Onslaught put him in the ruby and he escaped by taking all of Cyttorak's power. After that it was 'oh wait, we can't have the Juggernaut be even more powerful than before, let's do an absurd one shot that culminates in his power getting siphoned off to his previous level'... Then Cyttorak returned and the real crappy rollercoaster ride began...
Juggernaut used to be my favourite Marvel character, but I'm not sure I care any more. 
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Just be glad they couldn't give the power of the Cytorak to the Incredible Hulk. Not that Hulk needs it, of course. |
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Poor Marko... he's gotten a raw deal ever since Onslaught put him in the ruby and he escaped by taking all of Cyttorak's power. After that it was 'oh wait, we can't have the Juggernaut be even more powerful than before, let's do an absurd one shot that culminates in his power getting siphoned off to his previous level'... Then Cyttorak returned and the real crappy rollercoaster ride began...
Juggernaut used to be my favourite Marvel character, but I'm not sure I care any more. |
Get Hulk angry enough and he turns into the World Breaker which easily trumps the Juggernaut.
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Because Marvel doesn't do thorough skill tests of some of the hack artists they've had of late. Check out the ugly artwork of the past several issues of Spiderman, especially that stupid Spider Island story.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
Why do Spider Woman and Gambit look like they're made of silly putty? |
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Yes in the first Secret War, Spidey easily outmaneuvered and out fought the X-men until Xavier used the old Jedi mind trick on him to stop him and blank his memory. However in the Xmen's defense, if Storm cut loose with her weather powers it likely would have been different. |
Originally Posted by Innovator
Spider-Man once had almost beaten all the X-Men by himself, only stopped by Professor X. Also, Cap has beaten Spidey pretty much consistently in every encounter. So I'm giving my Edge to the Avengers.
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As far as Captain America vs. Spidey, Spidey is not going to want to fight Captain America using his full strength and speed which are superior to Cap's own for one simple reason: It's Captain America. Also Cap has a lot more combat experience then Spidey.
Conversely Spidey has taken down some superior powered characters in the past:
1. Iron Man of 2020 when he time warped to the past and Spidey cut loose and started to smash him and his armor.
2. Iron Man himself back when Aunt May was shot and dying, they fought and Spidey cocooned Iron Man in his webs and tore his face mask off.
3. Firelord, herald of Galactus. HOW that happened is still a mystery. Firelord must have been only at 1/1000000th of his normal power levels in that fight considering what a herald of Galactus can usually do. (space flight, hyperspace, matter rearrangment, energy blasts, fly through stars and black holes, etc).
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They didn't have to do a whole lot of beseeching, actually. They just let Cytorrak know that Cain was getting power from ANOTHER god besides him. Cytorrak was all like, "Oh no he didn't" and stripped the power from Cain pretty readily.|
Originally Posted by 80sBaby
Actually, it grew organically from the story. It was a literal last ditch effort by the X-Men to stop Juggernaught, who had also gained the powers of a Norse god. Cyclops went through every conceivable way to stop him and they all failed. So, Magik, Kitty and Peter beseeched Cytorak to remove his power from Cain. Illyana was going to recieve the power but Colossus took her place, at the last minute. He then went back to the battlefield and fought Worthy Cain, defeating him.
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Cyt is a jealous type, apparantly.
-k
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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During the recent Spider-Island story where his spider-sense was disabled, Shang Chi taught Spidey kung fu which should help. But yeah, he'll still have to lose.
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Originally Posted by Nericus
As far as Captain America vs. Spidey, Spidey is not going to want to fight Captain America using his full strength and speed which are superior to Cap's own for one simple reason: It's Captain America. Also Cap has a lot more combat experience then Spidey.
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Thinking about that for a second, is that right? Cap certainly has more training but on the experience front, hasn't Spidey been having life-or-death fights on a more or less daily basis since he was a teenager?
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Originally Posted by Nericus
Also Cap has a lot more combat experience then Spidey.
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Always remember, we were Heroes.
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Yes I know he has been taught the arts and now has his own "Way of the Spider" or "Spider-fu" also known as "Matrix-fu", plus now that his spider sense is restored and if Spidey actually gets serious in a fight and opens up with his new skills he'd likely defeat Captain America. |
Originally Posted by Stupid_Fanboy
During the recent Spider-Island story where his spider-sense was disabled, Shang Chi taught Spidey kung fu which should help. But yeah, he'll still have to lose.
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But again, Spidey has a lot of respect for Cap and would hold back in a fight. Even the Punisher has respect for Cap as shown in Civil War, so if we get Cap vs. Punisher throw down, Cap would win due to his superior experience, plus the super soldier serum, and the fact that Punisher wouldn't kill Cap.
I honestly can't think of any hero in the Marvel Universe that would actually fight Cap at their full skill/speed/strength except for maybe one of the X-men (not necessarily Wolverine), and that would be if they used the pretense that Cap stands for the rights of everyone but appears to have not done much for mutant rights. Wolverine even challenged Cap about that back in the first Secret War, and I don't recall Cap doing much since then for advancing mutant rights.
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Captain America is a World War 2 combat veteran who faced life and death on the battle fields of the war both against regular enemy soldiers as well as super powered Axis agents. He is trained in several forms of combat and has experience with the weapons of war. |
Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Thinking about that for a second, is that right? Cap certainly has more training but on the experience front, hasn't Spidey been having life-or-death fights on a more or less daily basis since he was a teenager?
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Spidey only just recently got serious and received martial arts training and as smart as Spidey is, I don't think his combat experience or tactical expertise would begin to match Captain America.
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I'm not questioning the tactical expertise part, I just wondered about it in terms of actual time spent regularly hjaving superhero-type fights, given the squigley comic timelines. If Wikipedia is right, Steve Rodgers became Cap in about 1940 and was frozen in 1945, so thats roughly 5 years of super-heroic life. But he was revived a few years after Spidey started out, so, barring time travel stuff, there is very little difference in the time they have been active. Seeing as Spidey pretty much always seems to be fighting someone, Cap can't really have been in that many more fights than Peter. |
Originally Posted by Nericus
Spidey only just recently got serious and received martial arts training and as smart as Spidey is, I don't think his combat experience or tactical expertise would begin to match Captain America.
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Again, no doubt he is a better fighter in terms of combat, training etc..
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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Cap's been in the life or death battles a lot longer than Spidey (also, Steve wasn't that much older than Pete when he became Cap), and has had real combat training and trains endlessly. for all Pete's agility and powers, he's really a crap fighter. He throws kicks and punches, but relies a lot, probably way too much on his spidey sense. IMO, that gives Cap the edge there.|
Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Thinking about that for a second, is that right? Cap certainly has more training but on the experience front, hasn't Spidey been having life-or-death fights on a more or less daily basis since he was a teenager?
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In any case, in the past i would've thrown victory to the Avengers. But against the X-Men's "extinction team", the fight's gonna be nasty.
Looking at those covers is like looking at a cavalcade of crappy art v.v
The idea is dumb as is the notion of "Mutants" being outcasts in a world full of superheroes...
We hate Jean Grey because she's a mutant, but Ms. Marvel is ok because she was given powers by an alien.
Storm doesn't stand a chance in hell against Thor >_>
These debates are always hilarious. The winner of these fictional fights between fictional characters will be whoever the writers decide they want to win.
Aunt May can defeat Galactus on a day the writer hasn't had enough coffee yet 
OH! Is Wolverine (A) gonna fight Wolverine (X) ??!!
If so, which Wolverine (X).....out of which X-book.....unless they just go with the common "it's all at different points in time, so when in this book he's in Europe....and here he's in space....there's a time difference between these books."
So....if they include all the Wolverines from all the X-books (assuming each Wolverine is from different time points of time....)....we could see a fight of, what, 10 Wolverines that are a few days or hours apart on the time scale??? O_o
......Yes, this is a bitter post about overusing Wolverine =D
Mr. True Shot.
Level 53: Arrows/Devices/Munitions Blaster
....and hopeless Science-Natzi.
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Yeah, Cytorrak doesn't seem too picky about who does the smashing in his name just as long as someone's smashing things in his name.|
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
They didn't have to do a whole lot of beseeching, actually. They just let Cytorrak know that Cain was getting power from ANOTHER god besides him. Cytorrak was all like, "Oh no he didn't" and stripped the power from Cain pretty readily.
Cyt is a jealous type, apparantly. -k |
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This is 100% accurate about the SW, but I have had a hard time swallowing it since I first read the story. He easily bested the entire team. Yes, it was fast and done quickly which gave Spidey an advantage, but he made the X-Men look like amateurs. Clearly (to me, at least) this happened because of his POPULARITY, not because it would really be that easy to beat them. I don't have the story in front of me, but wasn't it Wolverine, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Prof. X? And Spidey can beat them all? I just don't think it could happen.
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Originally Posted by Nericus
Yes in the first Secret War, Spidey easily outmaneuvered and out fought the X-men until Xavier used the old Jedi mind trick on him to stop him and blank his memory. However in the Xmen's defense, if Storm cut loose with her weather powers it likely would have been different.
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Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
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This thread is a Star Wars vs. Star Trek debate in superhero clothing.
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Originally Posted by Socorro
These debates are always hilarious. The winner of these fictional fights between fictional characters will be whoever the writers decide they want to win.
Aunt May can defeat Galactus on a day the writer hasn't had enough coffee yet |
http://comics.ign.com/articles/121/1...2-01-13_163000=
So I see this link on IGN and click it. The first comic will answer a question I've always had about a guy who uses a magnetically reinforced exoskeleton against the master of magnatism (I always figured Tony would be on the severe losing end of that battle but I digress)
However 9 covers down I see Thing versus what looks like a Colossus/Juggernaut hybrid?????????????????? Did Marvel really screw something up that bad or is this some one shot anomally (this collosnaut)?
------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------