I'd like a Big Red Ball travel power, but only if I can use Footstomp while bouncing around on it.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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I second/whatever the request that suppressing without canceling all toggles instead canceling them be looking into/considered.|
Originally Posted by Clockwork O1
It requires the modification of every animation currently existing in the game to work with these movement modes.
Furthermore, it requires every new animation created in the game going forward to be created with these additional movement modes in mind, increasing the number of animations needed for every new power set, emote, etc. This is not a simple request, it is an exponential increase in time and work for every new animation that is put into the game. |
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Originally Posted by Sheogoth
I only want this worked on piece by piece but on the back burner.
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Please note he was hired around issue 8, and walk came out in issue 16.
Not saying it took him that entire time, but I want to say he implied it was at least three issues worth of "back burner" work to get us walk as we now have it.
This would be an enormous amount of back burner work for us to ever see a result because they would not go "okay, now X powerset can use walk and attack, but no others. So scrappers, don't rush in while you cant use your armors".
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Originally Posted by Sheogoth
This is a defeatist attitude.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Forgive me, This may sound silly, but is there no way to work up some sort of automated animation program\tool that would take existing animations and adapt them to alternate movement modes? |
Originally Posted by Clockwork O1
It requires the modification of every animation currently existing in the game to work with these movement modes.
Furthermore, it requires every new animation created in the game going forward to be created with these additional movement modes in mind, increasing the number of animations needed for every new power set, emote, etc. This is not a simple request, it is an exponential increase in time and work for every new animation that is put into the game. |
I don't know why, (and I'm no kind of artist) but it seems like something that should be able to be automated in some way...
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
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Umm Sheogoth...|
Originally Posted by Sheogoth
To my knowledge every movement power stops movement animations to play a power animation, though I can see that weapons would require a myriad (though the running animation doesn't chaNge it'S animation) of new animations, what I'm getting at is the why not? Why limit the players to ONLY non combat? You're repeating the same thing many have said: "it fluff" "Only for RP" "not necessary" " you want this done yesterday". I only want this worked on piece by piece but on the back burner. Though you are wrong it's not asking for the world, just a bit of diversity. I mean I can settle with walk (as it isn't a bought "fluff power) being the only one to no suppress powers, and I know there would be a wave of "well if walk doesn't why can't X" when you can respond to that with "Well X is one the back-burner" I'm glad I actually got an informed non snarky response, and honored a red name even bothered to post here. Simple request I would like a revamp of walk have that announced to be on the back burner, than you can move on to the others. Alot of players would be happy with this slow change, and it would allow more diversity amongst them.
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Clockwork 01's response basically means that there won't be any publicly mentioned attempts to Alter the Non-Combat/RP Powers any time soon. Even on the 'back burner', as you put it.
Want to know why? Look at the history of Power Customization. It was basically one of the most requested additions to the Character Creator. The Devs put it to "It isn't that we can't do it, but the resources to do it are not available to us". It wasn't 'till after the IP buy out by NCSoft that the Devs could even begin to see if it was doable (which they eventually did...).
If it took the Devs that much time and effort into making that kind of Major adjustment to the Game's Code, do you honestly believe they would publicly state that trying to Adjust four 'Fluff' (and yes they are fluff Powers) Powers until they are close to Betaing that? I don't believe so. As I mentioned up thread with the floating TW models in Ninja Run when TW was first on Beta, any new items like that would have to be passed through not only Ninja Run, but Beast Run and the Non-Combat Powers (if they were adjusted to work that way...). That's an extra four Powers that they may not have the scheduling to do.
And that is the crux of what several of those posting in this thread have been trying to tell you: It isn't that it's a overly bad idea (I'd rather see a Toggle Suppression than full Combat use), but that in all practicality, it's not feasible.
Thank you for the time...
@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test) 
Another vote for suppression, the code already exists for this IIRC from one of the buildings in praetoria. Your toggles don't work or animate while on the rocket board, but are still there when you get off.
This was actually how I thought it was going to work, I wouldn't have bought the hover board had I realised.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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I fully support this idea. I may be quite over-tired at the moment, but it's striking me as pretty funny.
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Originally Posted by Torroes_Prime
Does the Coyote jump up on it's hind legs and punch the target in question with it's paw?
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You'll need a bigger hammer, dude. This ain't just a brick wall we're facing.
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Originally Posted by Tymers_Realm
-Common Sense-
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I haven't bought TW on the Mains yet, Alpha. So I don't have the Rocket Hammer yet...|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
You'll need a bigger hammer, dude. This ain't just a brick wall we're facing.
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But you just have to keep trying...
Thank you for the time...
@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test)
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You got it spelled out in black and white by a red name, and STILL you won't accept the argument that it is simply to much work to be cost efficient?|
Originally Posted by Sheogoth
To my knowledge every movement power stops movement animations to play a power animation, though I can see that weapons would require a myriad (though the running animation doesn't chaNge it'S animation) of new animations, what I'm getting at is the why not? Why limit the players to ONLY non combat? You're repeating the same thing many have said: "it fluff" "Only for RP" "not necessary" " you want this done yesterday". I only want this worked on piece by piece but on the back burner. Though you are wrong it's not asking for the world, just a bit of diversity. I mean I can settle with walk (as it isn't a bought "fluff power) being the only one to no suppress powers, and I know there would be a wave of "well if walk doesn't why can't X" when you can respond to that with "Well X is one the back-burner" I'm glad I actually got an informed non snarky response, and honored a red name even bothered to post here. Simple request I would like a revamp of walk have that announced to be on the back burner, than you can move on to the others. Alot of players would be happy with this slow change, and it would allow more diversity amongst them.
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Dense or simply trolling?
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Don't know if you're currently keeping tabs... unless you've lumped every rational response people have had that disagrees with you as a "snarky rebuttal" but from the tally here, I'd suggest you amend your initial post|
Originally Posted by Sheogoth
Currently want a fix to Walk/Hover-Board/Magic-Carpet:7
Snarky Rebuttal: 14 Actual input/questions: 4 Resort to insults: 2 |
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| (snip)one huge coding problem since we can fly without any trouble. If there is a canon reason, I'd -love- to hear it, and so would he rest of us!(snip) |
...especially when you choose to insult and provoke:
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| (snip)I mean come -on- developers, designers, implementers. Have you really gotten -this- lazy? |
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Are you talking about rooting? Because most toggles don't. I can toggle on while running, jumping, and flying just fine, so long as the toggle in question isn't one that affects an enemy.|
Originally Posted by Sheogoth
To my knowledge every movement power stops movement animations to play a power animation,
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| though I can see that weapons would require a myriad (though the running animation doesn't chaNge it'S animation) of new animations, what I'm getting at is the why not? Why limit the players to ONLY non combat? You're repeating the same thing many have said: "it fluff" "Only for RP" "not necessary" " you want this done yesterday". I only want this worked on piece by piece but on the back burner. Though you are wrong it's not asking for the world, just a bit of diversity. I mean I can settle with walk (as it isn't a bought "fluff power) being the only one to no suppress powers, and I know there would be a wave of "well if walk doesn't why can't X" when you can respond to that with "Well X is one the back-burner" I'm glad I actually got an informed non snarky response, and honored a red name even bothered to post here. Simple request I would like a revamp of walk have that announced to be on the back burner, than you can move on to the others. Alot of players would be happy with this slow change, and it would allow more diversity amongst them. |
For bolded sections 1 and 2, where in the WORLD do you get that out of what CW01 said? I didn't see repetition of "it fluff" (?) or "not necessary" or anything else your quotes would intimate CW said. I saw a statement that it would require revisiting and revising every animation in the game. You also insert your own verbiage in the second bolded question; CW didn't say you're asking for the world. What you ARE asking for is a non-trivial amount of development time be spent on something that is unlikely to ultimately justify the person-hour cost. I mean, [Walk] is free (ROI = $0), and how long would it take, realistically, to get all the animations fixed to allow just all the toggle powers in the game to work with the new travel power models? If your answer is, "Long enough that anybody who wanted the things probably bought them anyway when they went on sale and just decided to cope," you're probably right. If it's anything else, you're probably wrong.
The third bolded section... honestly, I don't know how you can read "every animation currently existing in the game" and then have the gall to call anything you're proposing a "simple request."
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Toggle suppression please...|
Originally Posted by Clockwork O1
It requires the modification of every animation currently existing in the game to work with these movement modes.
Furthermore, it requires every new animation created in the game going forward to be created with these additional movement modes in mind, increasing the number of animations needed for every new power set, emote, etc. This is not a simple request, it is an exponential increase in time and work for every new animation that is put into the game. |
I would be extremely more inclined to buy these types of powers if say: oo I didn't drop all 4-10 of my toggles.
just don't turn them off... you can turn off their affects/visuals whatever ... long as I don't have to re-click them again.
Issue 24 PPM Calculator // The Great Makeover: The Vindicators
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To the OP - this is why it took so long to get Shields out - they had to go and re-do every animation in every melee set that could be paired with it (So they got to skip Dual Blades, Claws, Katana (because doing Katana wold of reqired doing a second set of animations for all the pool powers, which IIRC don't make you redraw the shield).|
Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
The third bolded section... honestly, I don't know how you can read "every animation currently existing in the game" and then have the gall to call anything you're proposing a "simple request."
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As for the line about fly?
Fly is why every power has SIX animations, Twelve in the case of shield-compatible melee powers. Instead of just three or six.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Well for starters I much like how walk detoggles everything. it lets me keep a power on auto and when I want to go RP mode at the D hitting walk lets me not worry over it.
2nd thing, the devs explained a LONG time ago about the length and difficulty of adding new animations, they also mentioned the ones they gave us for power customization and alternate attack animations will likely be the last. New sets will likely just incorporate some variation like in Street Justice to help avoid the same issue from cropping up again anytime soon. There was and never will be a good enough reason to warrant your suggestions as a viable use of thier resources in developing the game.
3rd it would make them very pay to win. If suddenly I could have among the fastest flights in the game without spending any powers or slots, that would be a big advantage, if i could then do it with other aspects like the coyote form then id be able to replace super speed and super jump as well. Because COX has pvp on any level, such things cant be allowed. As it is the way incarnate powers have impacted PVP and the fact you must sub to access them, is having a pretty negative impact on how this game is percieved by many newcomers who do try out pvp assuming it is another worthwile part of the game, only to find even witha decent 50 build without IOs and Incarnate powers they will be utterly outmatched.
Such things can be very frustrating to newer and more casual players. The current system is fairly well set up to allow you to support the company and enjoy COSMETIC perks, without offering an outright unfair power advantage.
The only reason I stomach Incarnate powers being a only for the subbers aspect is that few frewbs are deserving of the power I waited years for, and most casuals will be happy to sub again if the game gets thier interest and so dont really need thier full power when only logging on now and then mostly to socialize.
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QFT|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Don't know if you're currently keeping tabs... unless you've lumped every rational response people have had that disagrees with you as a "snarky rebuttal" but from the tally here, I'd suggest you amend your initial post
(see italics) You continue to act as a spokesperson for a group that you do not represent. More of us have shown that we already did know, understand, and accept the rationale for these powers as they are. We even shared that information in prior posts. We did not need someone to waste the devs' time making demands purporting to be on our behalf. Please do not pretend to speak for anyone other than yourself... ...especially when you choose to insult and provoke: |
listen to this man, he is chasing Arcanum after all. That is a serious trip. I chased Arcanum for a few years myself back in the late 90s, damn engrossing steampunk/magic rpg. I still think about it sometimes actually. Hard habit to kick.
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??? This isn't true at all. You're referring to the Praetorian Trading House, but toggles that get disabled when you enter remain disabled when you leave.
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Another vote for suppression, the code already exists for this IIRC from one of the buildings in praetoria. Your toggles don't work or animate while on the rocket board, but are still there when you get off.
This was actually how I thought it was going to work, I wouldn't have bought the hover board had I realised. |
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
You got it spelled out in black and white by a red name, and STILL you won't accept the argument that it is simply to much work to be cost efficient?
Dense or simply trolling? |
If I had to guess I'd say the problem is that someone is channeling the spirit of KittyCrusader.
Wow, someone is full of themselves, aren't they. "The few freebs deserving of the power?" Get over yourself.
I'm so glad most of the community isn't like you.
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I said IIRC, clearly I don't, does the no effects room in AE also shut them off rather than just dampen the effects ? I'm sure this was discussed for WWs in the past and it was suggested that it was possible.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
??? This isn't true at all. You're referring to the Praetorian Trading House, but toggles that get disabled when you enter remain disabled when you leave.
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It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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Pretty sure it works the same way, yeah. I tested it in the TH before making my post just to be sure, so I'd be surprised if the Power Suppression Room in AE works any differently.
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
I said IIRC, clearly I don't, does the no effects room in AE also shut them off rather than just dampen the effects ? I'm sure this was discussed for WWs in the past and it was suggested that it was possible.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
The root of it is that the animation system is extremely complicated. It tends to be a bit fragile, not because of the system itself, but because of all the years of accumulated work that has been built up on top of it, and each other. Thanks to posts from BAB and few others we've managed to build a fair idea of how it works mechanically, but there may only be one or two people within Paragon who truly have a complete understanding of it.
It's a very complex system with interactions from the powers system, the game engine itself, and a rapidly expanding set of rules. All of that is combined so that it can decide which animation out of over 8,000 to play at any given moment. Really it's more like 24,000 since each body type has different animations, but those share identifiers so that game don't have to consider them when deciding which to use.
So anything that affects something as fundamental as movement is going to need a LOT of work to make sure it doesn't conflict with those 8,000 animations. For something like ninja run and beast run they can cheat a little; since the normal standing animations for powers will work fine. It still takes very carefully setting up of the priorities so that the run animation works at all though.
On a rocket board, however, it's much more problematic. If the wrong animation plays, your board disappears. For a weapon, that's not a huge problem. Though redraw can be annoying, it's not nearly as immersion-breaking as your rocket board going away but you continue to float there until it reappears.
Suppressing toggles might not even be as viable as it sounds. While it's possible to suppress effects of a power, the power itself is still active and asserting its animation state. For most toggles that's only an issue when zoning, but even then it could get the system into the wrong state after a zone transition and might not be able to get back to the right one. It would take a lot of careful work to check each toggle for possible side-effects.
There really should be a corollary to the Standard Code Rant for anything that touches the animation system. It's not a bad system, it's just a very large and complex one, that as a result of the explosion of content in the game has grown some very subtle and difficult to understand interactions.
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Have you explored the option of having rocketboard use the same stance as the combat stance or the neutral stance when you are just hovering and only have it shift to the stance it has now when you are moving? That should allow you to use all of your attacks without breaking animations.
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Originally Posted by Clockwork O1
It requires the modification of every animation currently existing in the game to work with these movement modes.
Furthermore, it requires every new animation created in the game going forward to be created with these additional movement modes in mind, increasing the number of animations needed for every new power set, emote, etc. This is not a simple request, it is an exponential increase in time and work for every new animation that is put into the game. |
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
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So, you're requesting that every time you stop to attack you have to toggle your powers on ... then when you start moving again, they detoggle again ... talk about toggle hell. Not to mention being locked into a fight to the finish ... forget trying to escape, you'll definatally die. |
Originally Posted by Noyjitat
Have you explored the option of having rocketboard use the same stance as the combat stance or the neutral stance when you are just hovering and only have it shift to the stance it has now when you are moving? That should allow you to use all of your attacks without breaking animations.
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Sounds like a bad idea.
And the "silver surfer rides a board" reason doesn't work ... because he's a blaster and everyone can get the powers in question, and not everyone is a blaster. Aladin is a melee person ... did you ever see him fight while on the magic carpet?!?
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This sums it up for me as well. If they suppressed toggles, I would buy every single one of these powers the moment they hit the store.
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Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
If it suppresses my powers, I would buy them, and I could use them.
If it detoggles, well, there is nothing cool enough to warrant sitting around retoggling for 30 seconds after every time I use it. |
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
If it detoggles, well, there is nothing cool enough to warrant sitting around retoggling for 30 seconds after every time I use it.
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