City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Death of a Statesman

80sBaby

By 80sBaby,
Posted on: 2012-01-03 03:05 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
If you feel curious enough, google up a map of Rhode Island and a map of Paragon City and put the one on top of the other. I'd be curious if the result fits your conception of "close but different". It fails mine, but maybe I'm too stringent.
Did that once. Baumton covers up Boston quite nicely. It's uncanny. There's a couple extra seaways, which is forgivable due to the massive nuclear bombing Independence Day death attack that was the Rikti, plus the city's presence for a couple hundred years.

 

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Originally Posted by Rusted_Metal View Post
Huge-*** rant about Statesman...
Hilariously, in the arc? He didn't run off to punch Wade's face in, or kill him. He states that he's going to put Wade in jail until he rots and that's exactly what he deserves.

When asked if he has any last words? He tells Wade that villainy like Wade's never wins for long.

He's -exactly- what I was expecting. He stayed true to his ideals even in the face of the overwhelming loss and anger he felt.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Rusted_Metal View Post
No he isn't. He's a self-centered glory hog...<snippage>...with an overinflated opinion of himself and a PR department that takes his monumental screwups and makes them into victories, and the game is well rid of him.
Could you be a bit more concise and clear on how much you hate, no not strong enough, loath may, naw, dispise with every ounce of your being of Statesman? I'm not sure you did a good enough job.

Alternatively, we'll have to agree to disagree. For what you just wrote can be applied to every known superhero with the except of a very few. I could list a number of them but I don't have that kind of time here at work.

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Posted

I just wanted to peer in here and say that I deeply appreciate and support everyone that's posted their support for Statesman, even if the game has killed him off (for however long that lasts in comic book terms).

For a long while, I've felt like CoH has been in the grim and gritty 90's where shock deaths and replacements were the norm. I miss the guiding lights and the decisions made that say 'we're better than this' and that are self-sacrificing and well....heroic.

Maybe, just maybe, the Statesman haters can finally be sated of their hate (who can say though?) and we can start to find our own Brightest Day, seeing as after all this what this is all about.... *wry smile*

I know at least my SG will be holding a memorial service on the appropriate time.



S.

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
It's kinda silly to get hung up on the shape of Rhode Island when the CoH world inlcudes whole island chains that don't even exist
Its dirt-bias. Mess up the shape of the ocean, and that's fine. Mess up the shape of the land, and its a crime against humanity.

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Posted

The part about this that's starting to make me think is Recluse, and how they're going to write him in reaction to all this.
First, I wouldn't expect Recluse to be like "Oh, someone killed Statesman. Good." No, I'd expect Recluse to be PO'ed that someone ELSE killed Statesman. But that's a relatively minor point really.
Because I think that Recluse is next on the chopping block, perhaps even in this SSA arc.

Recluse's brother-in-law has been killed, his niece has been killed, by some little Rouge Isles nobody. Not only that, but The Power of Zeus has been jacked by some Rogue Isles nobody. That's a MAJOR problem. Because that little Rogue Isles nobody now has the power to possibly take Recluse down and take over Arachnos AND the Rogue Isles if he so wishes. Recluse simply can't afford to let that stand.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Its dirt-bias. Mess up the shape of the ocean, and that's fine. Mess up the shape of the land, and its a crime against humanity.
Heh. Can you mess up the shape of the ocean without messing up the shape of the land?

Does it really not bother you at all that for Paragon City to exist as described, that you'd have to sink most of Eastern Massachusetts? Providence doesn't actually border the Atlantic Ocean.

It does make one wonder what happened to the Boston Tea Party if there wasn't any Boston.

 

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Originally Posted by Wolvorine View Post
The part about this that's starting to make me think is Recluse, and how they're going to write him in reaction to all this.
First, I wouldn't expect Recluse to be like "Oh, someone killed Statesman. Good." No, I'd expect Recluse to be PO'ed that someone ELSE killed Statesman. But that's a relatively minor point really.
Because I think that Recluse is next on the chopping block, perhaps even in this SSA arc.

Recluse's brother-in-law has been killed, his niece has been killed, by some little Rouge Isles nobody. Not only that, but The Power of Zeus has been jacked by some Rogue Isles nobody. That's a MAJOR problem. Because that little Rogue Isles nobody now has the power to possibly take Recluse down and take over Arachnos AND the Rogue Isles if he so wishes. Recluse simply can't afford to let that stand.
While I agree in principle with your ideas about Recluse, you're sort of expecting him to act like a three-dimensional character and the death of Galaxy City pretty much dispenses with that possibility.

Wade himself has Sister Psyche next on the chopping block though I admit the reasons are opaque to me. He seems to think she's some sort of threat; maybe because she's the analog of Sister Airilia and there's some mystical threat that she poses due to that connection.

 

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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
Wade himself has Sister Psyche next on the chopping block though I admit the reasons are opaque to me. He seems to think she's some sort of threat; maybe because she's the analog of Sister Airilia
That's Sister Solaris - Sister Airlia is the Cimeroran Ghost Widow.

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
That's Sister Solaris - Sister Airlia is the Cimeroran Ghost Widow.
Well, then I really don't get why Psyche is next on his hit list.

 

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Originally Posted by TheSummerEvening View Post
Did that once. Baumton covers up Boston quite nicely. It's uncanny. There's a couple extra seaways, which is forgivable due to the massive nuclear bombing Independence Day death attack that was the Rikti, plus the city's presence for a couple hundred years.
Yeah, there's even a waterway in Northwest Boston that vaguely resembles Liberty Harbor and Baumton Canal. Makes me wonder if they had intended Boston to be the alternate Paragon City at some point. It would have made a lot more sense, (excepting the whole Rogue Islands proximity thing).

 

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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
Well, then I really don't get why Psyche is next on his hit list.
Mind rider.

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Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit View Post
Mind rider.

Yeah .. 'technically' I guess she could just mind ride into Wade and stop him cold that way.

But I think overall it might be that he wants to take her powers to mind ride Rularuu possibly?? To give the mad god a body and then mind ride control over it perhaps?

Or..

To make sure she doesn't stop him.

On a much much MUCH weirder note.
Pysche mind rides Wade....
She is now a full incarnate with Statesman's powers.
She is now Male
She is married to that idiot Manticore.

Ummmm... I think a marriage counselor would be in order for those two!

Come here little Manticore.. I am in the mood!!!
Hahaha.. for as much as I dislike that character.. that is very very funny to think about!

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Posted

Okay, Spoilers coming I do belive.







First off, Statesman rushing off at the end of WWD #3 isn't that far off because A) he just had a big blow up argument with Ms. Liberty, his granddaughter, and B) and this point Staes probably doesn't even know WHO THE @&^% Darrin Wade even is let alone that he killed his daughter, we don't learn that until WWD #4. If you don't play red side at all you may have never heard of the guy.

Second, for Wade's plan that some people claim doesn't make sense, remember, we're only at Arc 5 of 7. It might not make total sense because we don't have all the details. You might have figured out before WWD #5 that Wade planned to steal Statesman's powers, but I'm not sure anyone expected that to be the tip of the iceberg of the plans.

As for Statesman being a Gary Stu/jerk... It's a little baseless from what I've seen (Not having read the novels yet) and while he's jaded and maybe a little arrogant he's also a good person at heart who wants to help the world with his gifts. His last words before his death is tell Wade he won't win, and hsi thoughts are based on that someone has to stop Wade. He's a hero to the core, even if one with faults and mistakes to his name.

For Longbow in the Rouge Isles, if you'll recall Arachnos more or less invaded the place and set up shop. Also they have made a number of sorties into Paragon (Faultline Base, new tutorial, new starting storelines) on top of harbouring pretty well every villian PC probably adds up to a lack of diplomatic immunity for their ambassodors. At the least. The reason why no one launches an invasion of the place is because A) there's enough concentrated super powers there to make that hard as heck and B) a lot of innocent bystanders would get caught in the crossfire.

On Warburg, I don't PvP but I know the basic story there. I'm sure Blitz thinks he's opperating on his own merits and that Reculse doesn't control him. The fact might be that Reculse does control him, but with sublety and spies rather than issuing orders.

As for the size/location of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles, I shrug this off the same way as I shrug off where Metropolis/Gothim/Ect City is in DC Comics.

 

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Originally Posted by DoctorWhat View Post
You might have figured out before WWD #5 that Wade planned to steal Statesman's powers, but I'm not sure anyone expected that to be the tip of the iceberg of the plans.
Well, since I said as much just a few posts upstream before the big reveal, I'll have to disagree on this point. I got the target wrong. I expected him to be pulling a Doctor Doom on the Well, rather than on Rularuu, but the modus operandi is pretty much what I figured. See the old Marvel mega-crossover, Secret War, for the archetypical example.

Quote:
As for the size/location of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles, I shrug this off the same way as I shrug off where Metropolis/Gothim/Ect City is in DC Comics.
The people living in eastern Massachusetts might beg to differ; never mind what a world without Plymouth, Cape Cod, Dartmouth, probably Boston, and any number of lesser-known cities and places would be like. On the plus side, if you let that slide then I suppose you can just as easily hand-wave that Nantucket, the Vineyards, and parts of the Cape Cod peninsula are actually the land mass of the Rogue Isles. As long as we're letting the USA map be redrawn willy-nilly then we might as well go whole hog.

 

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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
The people living in eastern Massachusetts might beg to differ; never mind what a world without Plymouth, Cape Cod, Dartmouth, probably Boston, and any number of lesser-known cities and places would be like. On the plus side, if you let that slide then I suppose you can just as easily hand-wave that Nantucket, the Vineyards, and parts of the Cape Cod peninsula are actually the land mass of the Rogue Isles. As long as we're letting the USA map be redrawn willy-nilly then we might as well go whole hog.
Last I recall, Lore stated Rhode Island gained some new terrain and area when an earthquake happened and an underground city was revealed.

Doesn't take much for me to let slide, that Paragon City was errected over this new landmass.

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Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Last I recall, Lore stated Rhode Island gained some new terrain and area when an earthquake happened and an underground city was revealed.

Doesn't take much for me to let slide, that Paragon City was errected over this new landmass.
Pretty much.

This is a game where you can play people who are super strong, can shrug off miniguns, breath fire, ect. It's not the real world. Suspension of disbelief is encouraged.

 

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Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Last I recall, Lore stated Rhode Island gained some new terrain and area when an earthquake happened and an underground city was revealed.

Doesn't take much for me to let slide, that Paragon City was errected over this new landmass.
Heh. "You keep saying that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."

Honestly. Just look at the GvE map of Paragon City and then look at any map of the Eastern USA. You'll see in a few seconds that it's not a problem that can be solved like that. It would have to go the other way and sink a whole bunch of land. The exception MIGHT be that Narragansett Bay gets filled in and Providence gets relocated or expands 20 or 30 miles closer to the coast instead of along the inland waterway it currently occupies.

As for the earthquake that revealed Oranbega, I'm not aware of any lore that says it expanded the land mass of the eventual Rhode Island. I'd be interested in seeing that lore.

The bottom line is that Paragon City can't be an analog of Providence without doing more than just "suspending disbelief". It's a mistake, plain and simple, for Jack Emmert and/or Sean Fish or the other original devs to have proposed Providence as the analog of Paragon City.

Does it really matter in the big picture? No, not really. It IS amusing that so many people defend the mistake with hand-waving about "suspension of disbelief" instead of just admitting that they screwed up.

The silly thing is that the map works if Paragon City was located in Massachusetts. I suppose you can just as easily believe that the state borders are different in Primal Earth and that Paragon City is on the real east coast, as believe that an earthquake created a new east coast that hosts the City of Heroes.

 

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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
The silly thing is that the map works if Paragon City was located in Massachusetts. I suppose you can just as easily believe that the state borders are different in Primal Earth and that Paragon City is on the real east coast, as believe that an earthquake created a new east coast that hosts the City of Heroes.
After I did such a map comparison myself a few years ago, I preferred to believe that it was a case of different borders due to this being a different earth altogether. So I put that part of Massachusetts where Paragon City would easily fit (Cohasset, because you know... that's funny!) as Primal Earth's Rhode Island, and the Rhode Island of the real world would be part of Massachusetts instead.

I even imagined the Rogue Isles to be where the Isles of Shoals is in the real world. But I don't think that's supported by the game lore.

 

Posted

I just wanted to type my piece I'm going to miss you Statesman I know some hated with a passion. Why? well everyone had a different reason I personally never cared, But I loved you for your stoic nature and by the book attitude it was something nice to see and what made you different. He was black and white down the middle on one side or the other and never compromised. Maybe that's why some didn't like him, But they had him stick to his guns love it or hate it. Maybe it's because some people instantly don't like those that think like that Either way he was a hero to the end even as he was dying worrying about Wade having his powers. He was the icon for the game..still kinda is I'm not sure if they're going to change the loading screen or not who knows, But if anything they gave you a great death scene and music to go with it.

R.I.P Marcus "Statesman" Cole 1896-2012

 

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Years ago I wrote a post about Statesman death being a great idea/plot point.
Everyone clamored that they'd never do it, and that it was dumb idea...ect.

Suck it.
Kiss Kiss. :P

 

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Originally Posted by The guy your mom stalks View Post
I just wanted to type my piece I'm going to miss you Statesman I know some hated with a passion. Why? well everyone had a different reason I personally never cared, But I loved you for your stoic nature and by the book attitude it was something nice to see and what made you different. He was black and white down the middle on one side or the other and never compromised. Maybe that's why some didn't like him, But they had him stick to his guns love it or hate it. Maybe it's because some people instantly don't like those that think like that Either way he was a hero to the end even as he was dying worrying about Wade having his powers. He was the icon for the game..still kinda is I'm not sure if they're going to change the loading screen or not who knows, But if anything they gave you a great death scene and music to go with it.

R.I.P Marcus "Statesman" Cole 1896-2012
What a nice post (*reminds inner editor to shut up for once*). So, the people around me consider me to be a moral and honest person. But, I, at times, haven't gotten along as well with people who couldn't "see the gray" in life. Real life is so layered and multifaceted, and, a great deal of the time, compromise and diplomacy are the soundest tactics for dealing with day-to-day problems. Extreme personalities only give you one choice, their choice. My namesake character, Captain-Electric, is like this. Statesman was like this. Oddly enough, I love reading and playing characters like this. Maybe because it's like taking a vacation from real life's mine field of competing "good" and "right" viewpoints. A vacation where you're likely to get stabbed, shot at, or vaporized. But who cares? Good and evil, distilled, simple and true, are phenomenally refreshing. About five minutes into a recent interview with Phoenix Jones--stabbed and shot at, check--the interview turns to what's so good about comic books, and you can see Jones light up, "...You have a good guy, and you have a bad guy, and 90 percent of the time, the good guy wins." I think Phoenix Jones is insane. But it's enviable, from where I stand.

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Originally Posted by bpphantom View Post
Tyrant did the right thing. People are too stupid to make their own decisions.
Bat thats the folly of Tyran't decsion, the wonderful thing about free choice is the way it prunes the tree so to speak. Bad choices beget dire consequences and as a whole the human race improves. Coddle dummies and well each successive generation will get that much more, well err... dummier

Then again maybe thats what Cole wants? To rule over a bunch of drooling meat bags? He is immortal afterall.


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Originally Posted by ebon3 View Post
Bat thats the folly of Tyran't decsion, the wonderful thing about free choice is the way it prunes the tree so to speak. Bad choices beget dire consequences and as a whole the human race improves. Coddle dummies and well each successive generation will get that much more, well err... dummier
I think you're talking about Social Darwinism, which is closer to how Lord Recluse runs his little empire. However, that's not free choice either.

But speaking of Darwin, allowing everyone to do whatever they want is certainly no guarantee that that will weed out the dumb people. In fact, if the environment favors those with less intelligence over those with higher intelligence (for whatever reasons), well then... guess what?

 

Posted

Why did they "kill" Statesman?

Is it because Jack Emmert, the person that created him, left the company?
Maybe he wants him back.

If not, I'd expect the Statesman to be back as all comic book superheroes seem to never stay dead.

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